Post Mortem #21 - Los Angeles Clippers

[sp6r=underrated]

Kawhi leaving a championship team was the stupidest decision a player has ever made.

I'll defend the decision. It wasn't about basketball. It was about where he wanted to live. He isn't the first or last player to prefer a weaker franchise in their home city.

I’ll never blame a guy for wanting to live in beautiful sunny Los Angeles, California. But leaving that team, at that time, is something we gonna have to look back on as a major ‘what if’ . Raptors easily could’ve repeated lol

No Question.
1. Toronto was 53-19 without him in 2020.
2. Lost in G7 of ECSF. (2 point game in final 2 minutes)
3. 4th Highest SRS in NBA

That is easily a championship level squad with Kawhi. It isn't a guarantee they win but they seriously threaten to win.

[Mr Peanut]

Harden disappearing act in big playoff games...name a more iconic duo.

Not sure what the path to the Clippers improving themselves is from here. They should blow it up except they don't control their own draft picks until 2030.

[Marvin Martian]

They don't own control of their own picks until after 2029.

Also, what kind of value do Kawhi and Harden have?

Why do people bring up picks when it comes to the viability of rebuilding? This is a sunk cost fallacy.

How does LAC plan to compete in the next 2 years with Harden and Kawhi being on the wrong side of 30? They are going downhill, and it is better to rip the band-aid off, trade their 2 stars, and get whatever they can

People bring that up because they have no control of where their picks end up going forward.

I agree that the current roster won't go very far, but what kind of value do you think Harden and Kawhi have? Will those guys get them their picks back or picks that look to be good? Or young players with potential? I doubt it.

Anything is better than nothing. They already let PG walk for nothing. LAC managed without him, but they absolutely cannot allow Harden or to a lesser extent Kawhi, leave for nothing. LAC would a bottom 10 team if that happens

[Mk0]

This season was a reality check. The legend, the myth of Kawhi it died tonight. He’s not the invincible playoff performer that once appeared to be. He can’t go superhuman for 4 games in a series anymore. Clippers finally got him healthy and this is what happened. They have to really evaluate their future and consider a major shakeup this offseason. The chances of Kawhi being healthy for another playoff run this time next year? I wouldn't bet a dime on it. They lucked out hard and still failed.

Older stars making the supermax with the 2nd apron is a bit of a killer.
KD, Steph, Jimmy, LeBron, Dame, Harden, Paul George, etc... Guys over 35 making crazy money is really hard to build around.

Then you have Embiid (31) and Kawhi (33) right there with them but with the knees of a 40 year old.

[Childs]

Kawhi leaving a championship team was the stupidest decision a player has ever made.

I don't think he cares about legacy. Home was more important to him. Doubt he has any regrets.

[SpurNani]

Im rarely a reactionary “blow it up” guy but in this case, i think it would be the best thing.

This year was best case scenario for LAC. Healthy Kawhi, Harden playing near all star level, Zubac and Powell breaking out. Reclamation projects like Dunn and Ben Simmons providing good play etc

And they still lost in 1st round in a very winnable series. Kawhi is a great player but he remains the worst type of franchise player a team could have. He definitely underperformed in this series after finally being healthy. Harden proved once again he is not a playoff player. Powell ideally is a bench player not a guy who should start.

I would trade Kawhi while he still has any value. Harden is on a relatively small contract as well, i dont know who would want him though.

[1993Playoffs]

Wow 7 points for harden in game 7. That’s embarrassing

[Dan Z]

Why do people bring up picks when it comes to the viability of rebuilding? This is a sunk cost fallacy.

How does LAC plan to compete in the next 2 years with Harden and Kawhi being on the wrong side of 30? They are going downhill, and it is better to rip the band-aid off, trade their 2 stars, and get whatever they can

People bring that up because they have no control of where their picks end up going forward.

I agree that the current roster won't go very far, but what kind of value do you think Harden and Kawhi have? Will those guys get them their picks back or picks that look to be good? Or young players with potential? I doubt it.

Anything is better than nothing. They already let PG walk for nothing. LAC managed without him, but they absolutely cannot allow Harden or to a lesser extent Kawhi, leave for nothing. LAC would a bottom 10 team if that happens

I don't think either player has any trade value. Kawhi Leonard is 33 years old and injury prone, plus he's paid 50 million dollars for the next two seasons. Harden is 35 years old and will be paid 36 million next year.

[Chuck Everett]

People bring that up because they have no control of where their picks end up going forward.

I agree that the current roster won't go very far, but what kind of value do you think Harden and Kawhi have? Will those guys get them their picks back or picks that look to be good? Or young players with potential? I doubt it.

Anything is better than nothing. They already let PG walk for nothing. LAC managed without him, but they absolutely cannot allow Harden or to a lesser extent Kawhi, leave for nothing. LAC would a bottom 10 team if that happens

I don't think either player has any trade value. Kawhi Leonard is 33 years old and injury prone, plus he's paid 50 million dollars for the next two seasons. Harden is 35 years old and will be paid 36 million next year.

For Harden, the question would be who would want him that isn't a contender (because the real contenders don't need him)? His playoff struggles be damned, he's still an effective player in the NBA. Like if I was the Pelicans, I would trade Murray or McCollum in a heartbeat for Harden, I really would. If I was Miami and I could get him for Duncan Robinson and Terry Rozier's expiring contracts, I also would make that trade.

I'm not sure the upgrade is out there for the Clippers this offseason. I'd probably just run it back, but now you have to give the kids minutes. There were never enough minutes for Brown, Miller, Coffey or Christie in the regular season/playoffs. Also, going to need to find a legit backup center for Zubac.

[MoreyWins]

They need to tear it down, but they don't have control of their 1st next year. The logical thing might be to run it back one more year just so you're not gifting OKC another lottery talent. If the Clippers could load up on one year deals of decent players, that might be ideal. It doesn't matter if they fit as a championship contender, just be good enough to win 45 or so games. That way they can go into next summer with an empty book and a chance to start a new era.

[Deathray]

It's deja vu all over again. Lose in the first round and might as well run it back one more time.

[Dan Z]

Anything is better than nothing. They already let PG walk for nothing. LAC managed without him, but they absolutely cannot allow Harden or to a lesser extent Kawhi, leave for nothing. LAC would a bottom 10 team if that happens

I don't think either player has any trade value. Kawhi Leonard is 33 years old and injury prone, plus he's paid 50 million dollars for the next two seasons. Harden is 35 years old and will be paid 36 million next year.

For Harden, the question would be who would want him that isn't a contender (because the real contenders don't need him)? His playoff struggles be damned, he's still an effective player in the NBA. Like if I was the Pelicans, I would trade Murray or McCollum in a heartbeat for Harden, I really would. If I was Miami and I could get him for Duncan Robinson and Terry Rozier's expiring contracts, I also would make that trade.

I'm not sure the upgrade is out there for the Clippers this offseason. I'd probably just run it back, but now you have to give the kids minutes. There were never enough minutes for Brown, Miller, Coffey or Christie in the regular season/playoffs. Also, going to need to find a legit backup center for Zubac.

That's probably the best they can do in a trade (players like Rozier/Robinson or injured Murray...maybe McCollum) and neither of those trades help them rebuild. It just makes them worse next year.

At this point I think all they can do is just ride it out.

[jbk1234]

If they're able to extend Zubac. They should do that. If they're able to extend Powell on a team friendly deal, they should probably do that. Everyone else can play out their contracts or leave via trade for a fair offer (and I'd be open to expiring deals). Future cap space is their best asset at this point.

[TheNewEra]

there is no logical reason to run this team back. It’s a aged roster

[madmaxmedia]

What we are seeing now are the ramifications of the Paul George trade. They had a 3 year window to win a title, choked in the bubble playoffs, were doing great in year 2 until Kawhi tore his ACL against Utah, and they lost year 3 because of that injury. After that age caught up.

They doubled down trading for Harden, pushing control of their own 1sts off another two years. In a vacuum that was a good trade as Harden has been a really good Clipper, but in the overall context of the franchise it was a somewhat foolhardy move that is playing out now. He improved the team but the team is still not good enough to really challenge for even a WCF much less title.

The team overachieved this year, but it has regular season depth not playoff depth. They needed a significant contribution from Bogey who played great for us in the regular season and disappeared in the playoffs. There's no reason to blow things up because getting a couple of late 1sts from playoff teams isn't any better than riding it out due to our our draft pick situation. So the FO will try to improve around the edges again.

1st or maybe 2nd round treadmill exit next year too, but there's really no other smart or realistic alternative. It is what it is.

[madmaxmedia]

If they're able to extend Zubac. They should do that. If they're able to extend Powell on a team friendly deal, they should probably do that. Everyone else can play out their contracts or leave via trade for a fair offer (and I'd be open to expiring deals). Future cap space is their best asset at this point.

Zu signed an extension last year (3 year $59M). I agree 100% on Norm, unless I guess there is a direct use for the cap space.

100% their best asset is future cap space. Their draft pick situation is a disaster, their salary cap table is not so bad. Kawhi and Harden are still quality players so as long as they're here the team can at least be competitive, until cap space opens up and then the hope is to sign 1 or 2 new star level replacements.

[Pantsman]

Harden is the most shameless athlete in history

[Marvin Martian]

Anything is better than nothing. They already let PG walk for nothing. LAC managed without him, but they absolutely cannot allow Harden or to a lesser extent Kawhi, leave for nothing. LAC would a bottom 10 team if that happens

I don't think either player has any trade value. Kawhi Leonard is 33 years old and injury prone, plus he's paid 50 million dollars for the next two seasons. Harden is 35 years old and will be paid 36 million next year.

For Harden, the question would be who would want him that isn't a contender (because the real contenders don't need him)? His playoff struggles be damned, he's still an effective player in the NBA. Like if I was the Pelicans, I would trade Murray or McCollum in a heartbeat for Harden, I really would. If I was Miami and I could get him for Duncan Robinson and Terry Rozier's expiring contracts, I also would make that trade.

I'm not sure the upgrade is out there for the Clippers this offseason. I'd probably just run it back, but now you have to give the kids minutes. There were never enough minutes for Brown, Miller, Coffey or Christie in the regular season/playoffs. Also, going to need to find a legit backup center for Zubac.

SAC, MIA and maybe ORL would be good fits. Play in teams that aren't contenders but just want to put an entertaining product on the floor.

[LarsV8]

Another "all in" team, completely hopeless by their pick debts.

Dumb owners got to stop making these dumbass trades.

[Dan Z]

I don't think either player has any trade value. Kawhi Leonard is 33 years old and injury prone, plus he's paid 50 million dollars for the next two seasons. Harden is 35 years old and will be paid 36 million next year.

For Harden, the question would be who would want him that isn't a contender (because the real contenders don't need him)? His playoff struggles be damned, he's still an effective player in the NBA. Like if I was the Pelicans, I would trade Murray or McCollum in a heartbeat for Harden, I really would. If I was Miami and I could get him for Duncan Robinson and Terry Rozier's expiring contracts, I also would make that trade.

I'm not sure the upgrade is out there for the Clippers this offseason. I'd probably just run it back, but now you have to give the kids minutes. There were never enough minutes for Brown, Miller, Coffey or Christie in the regular season/playoffs. Also, going to need to find a legit backup center for Zubac.

SAC, MIA and maybe ORL would be good fits. Play in teams that aren't contenders but just want to put an entertaining product on the floor.

What are those teams going to realistically give up for either Harden or Kawhi? KCP and Cole Anthony? DDR? Terry Rosier? Duncan Robinson?

I doubt they'd give up picks or any young players with good potential.