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Snakebites wrote:Childs wrote:It’s way too early to say the Jakobe is nothing special. Ingram hasn’t even played a game….
The fact that Ingram hasn't even played a game is a strike against the trade, not in favor of it.
Mavrelous wrote:No, the way TOR and Siakam handled the situation made it very hard to teade value for him.
dkb964 wrote:Snakebites wrote:Childs wrote:It’s way too early to say the Jakobe is nothing special. Ingram hasn’t even played a game….
The fact that Ingram hasn't even played a game is a strike against the trade, not in favor of it.
There was no reason to play Ingram when they were tanking. It made more sense to start fresh with him at training camp next season.
Raptors fans should think for themselves instead of just following whatever BS their management is feeding
The Laker Kid wrote:Recency bias is insane. Just 4 months ago, there were several 500+ page threads about a certain very lopsided trade, now they all forgot about it.
Tripod wrote:The trade ended up being Ingram +Ochai+Walter for the Raps. Ingram can be a 22+pt scorer, Ochai was drafted #15 3 years ago and shot 40% this year while being a good POA defender vs guards. Walter at #19 is a rookie so maybe give him time but he has shown flashes of being a starter level guy someday. His 3pt shooting got better every single month and shot over 40% the last 2 months....all while playing well defensively.
Masai did a great job turning those assets into their likely top scorer next year and possibly 2 3+D guards in the rotation. Of course Ingram's health is a concern...but fir all we know, he could be moved in the future for another deal.
It's funny because all Raps fans heard was "Masai over rates his players in trade talks". Maybe he knew how good they were and its the other GM's fault for not knowing it and stepping up to grab them.
PaulKellerman wrote:Ujiri is way past his expiry as a top executive. That Ingram play will not work out as intended and Pascal is a much better player. They should have gotten a better return for him
Snakebites wrote:The logic that the trade wasn't that lopsided because Siakam was a pending free agent and thus not all that valuable is flawed too.
It's the Raptors management's fault they were in that situation with Siakam.
So either they messed up the trade or they messed up the whole situation which lead to a worse trade.
It's not neither.
Snakebites wrote:The logic that the trade wasn't that lopsided because Siakam was a pending free agent and thus not all that valuable is flawed too.
It's the Raptors management's fault they were in that situation with Siakam.
So either they messed up the trade or they messed up the whole situation which lead to a worse trade.
It's not neither and does it really matter which it is? Isn't that kind of semantics at that point?
dkb964 wrote:Snakebites wrote:The logic that the trade wasn't that lopsided because Siakam was a pending free agent and thus not all that valuable is flawed too.
It's the Raptors management's fault they were in that situation with Siakam.
So either they messed up the trade or they messed up the whole situation which lead to a worse trade.
It's not neither.
Raptors fans admit that they traded Siakam a year to late but to come out of it at the end of the day with what they did was far from the most lopsided trade in recent memory. It looks good now but lets see what it looks like when 34 year old Siakam is making 54M. I do not see his game aging well at all.
Snakebites wrote:dkb964 wrote:Snakebites wrote:The logic that the trade wasn't that lopsided because Siakam was a pending free agent and thus not all that valuable is flawed too.
It's the Raptors management's fault they were in that situation with Siakam.
So either they messed up the trade or they messed up the whole situation which lead to a worse trade.
It's not neither.
Raptors fans admit that they traded Siakam a year to late but to come out of it at the end of the day with what they did was far from the most lopsided trade in recent memory. It looks good now but lets see what it looks like when 34 year old Siakam is making 54M. I do not see his game aging well at all.
I mean yeah, its no Luka trade. Of course not.
___Rand___ wrote:Tripod wrote:The trade ended up being Ingram +Ochai+Walter for the Raps. Ingram can be a 22+pt scorer, Ochai was drafted #15 3 years ago and shot 40% this year while being a good POA defender vs guards. Walter at #19 is a rookie so maybe give him time but he has shown flashes of being a starter level guy someday. His 3pt shooting got better every single month and shot over 40% the last 2 months....all while playing well defensively.
Masai did a great job turning those assets into their likely top scorer next year and possibly 2 3+D guards in the rotation. Of course Ingram's health is a concern...but fir all we know, he could be moved in the future for another deal.
It's funny because all Raps fans heard was "Masai over rates his players in trade talks". Maybe he knew how good they were and its the other GM's fault for not knowing it and stepping up to grab them.
Bro, the other end of the trade "Ingram +Ochai+Walter for the Raps" was due to Masai and Bobby's work, and LUCK that Ingram was available to take the capspace left by Pascal. Ochai and Walter's values have yet to be established. I'm not convinced yet that they'll pan out and become starting-calibre players in the NBA. What we got were middling picks and go by the stats, picks don't usually work. Ingram didn't "come" in that trade. Ochai didn't "come" with that trade. Neither did Walter - it took other trades and work - the "value added" by Bobby and Masai. In the hands of another GM, those picks will end up being Wiseman or Anthony Bennett or Malachi Flynn.
NBA fans need to stop discussing what "happened" down the road as "values" from trades, because you can have a chain that goes down several decades if going by that logic.
Sixers in 4 wrote:Tatum for Fultz ++ says hello.
But yeah I consider the OG trade even more lopsided than the Siakam one. OG they got worse, screwed their longterm cap outlook, and didn't get any picks
dkb964 wrote:PaulKellerman wrote:Ujiri is way past his expiry as a top executive. That Ingram play will not work out as intended and Pascal is a much better player. They should have gotten a better return for him
It is easy to say that in hindsight, but at the time teams were not lining up to give away great assets for the privilegeof of paying a 31 year old Siakam almost 50M anunally over the following 4 years. The Pacers did because they can not attract free agents. I am happy that it has worked out for the Pacers and Siakam but don't act like there was some bidding war or they let some great offer pass them by.
PaulKellerman wrote:dkb964 wrote:PaulKellerman wrote:Ujiri is way past his expiry as a top executive. That Ingram play will not work out as intended and Pascal is a much better player. They should have gotten a better return for him
It is easy to say that in hindsight, but at the time teams were not lining up to give away great assets for the privilegeof of paying a 31 year old Siakam almost 50M anunally over the following 4 years. The Pacers did because they can not attract free agents. I am happy that it has worked out for the Pacers and Siakam but don't act like there was some bidding war or they let some great offer pass them by.
Toronto really can't attract FAs either though. It may be a big city but it's got a lot of drawbacks (taxes, climate etc). Toronto should be in the talent retention business, not making lateral moves IMHO.