The EuroLeague's GOAT Vote: All-Time Top 25 Players Ranked From #1 (Vassilis Spanoulis) To #25 (Kostas Sloukas)

[Myth]

If EuroLeague was "multiple tiers" below the NBA, it would be impossible for an NBA team to ever lose a game to a EuroLeague team. Yet, NBA teams have lost a bunch of games to EuroLeague teams.

To both of you, tiers is a subjective amount. It can be one or multiple depending on how the tiers are defined. Within the NBA alone, you could categorize players in 3 tiers, 10 tiers, whatever.

Yes, for players.. But they were talking about league tiers. League tiers are very clearly defined.

The term absolutely can be used subjectively to refer to the level of players, which the other poster was clearly doing. Also, there are some clearly defined tiers (Varsity, JV, etc), but international leagues are not clearly defined levels.

[JujitsuFlip]

Walter Tavares sucked in the NBA, could hardly sniff the court. Yet this league has him as one of their best players ever, yikes.

[FreeBird23]

Bodiroga 14th ? GTFO

[Tim_Hardawayy]

You know a league is weak when Mike James is ranked in the top 10.

lol I still remember when he had his breakout season on a mediocre Heat squad replacing Tim Hardaway. He could shoot the 3 ball, I’ll give him that, and he never lacked confidence.

[Movics]

You know a league is weak when Mike James is ranked in the top 10.

lol I still remember when he had his breakout season on a mediocre Heat squad replacing Tim Hardaway. He could shoot the 3 ball, I’ll give him that, and he never lacked confidence.

Different Mike James. This Mike James went undrafted and played less than 50 nba games as a two way contract and 10 day contract guy. And mirotic says the NBA isn’t tiers above Euroleague

The Mike James you’re talking about had a breakout year in Toronto

[Tim_Hardawayy]

You know a league is weak when Mike James is ranked in the top 10.

He should not be ranked that high. The media voters put him at number 3. So I guess that's how he got 6th overall. European basketball media has a very strange obsession with Mike James.

They call him the EuroLeague GOAT like 20 times a week, even though he's never won a championship and is probably one of the worst players ever at the final four stage.

I think it's because the EuroLeague uses American marketing companies to run its social media, podcasts and such now. It's seems pretty clear that they want an American to be considered the EuroLeague GOAT, and James is the only option they have to push that narrative on.

Objectively speaking, I don't think he's higher than top 30 at best.

To be fair, with your posting history with regards to anything European vs American, you’re the last person on this site to be using the phrase “objectively speaking”. Not that I’m eager to defend Mike James, but I’d be curious on some others takes.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

You know a league is weak when Mike James is ranked in the top 10.

lol I still remember when he had his breakout season on a mediocre Heat squad replacing Tim Hardaway. He could shoot the 3 ball, I’ll give him that, and he never lacked confidence.

Different Mike James. This Mike James went undrafted and played less than 50 nba games as a two way contract and 10 day contract guy. And mirotic says the NBA isn’t tiers above Euroleague

The Mike James you’re talking about had a breakout year in Toronto

Oh my bad. Yeah I remember when he put up 20 in Toronto, the Heat had a few guys like that who broke out offensively elsewhere on bad teams (Eddie House and Ricky Davis).

[mcmurphy]

Sabonis in Euroleague (only since 2000 has there been something called that way) played only in 2004 at 40 years old and was MVP... at 40 years old...

Ginobili played only 2 editions and won 1 ...

ahhh, and last but not least... Spanoulis sucks

[Raps in 4]

How is Luka not the clear #1 here?

He only played there as a kid. The Euroleague is for scrubs. As soon as a player becomes good, they go to the NBA.

[Mirotic12]

To both of you, tiers is a subjective amount. It can be one or multiple depending on how the tiers are defined. Within the NBA alone, you could categorize players in 3 tiers, 10 tiers, whatever.

Yes, for players.. But they were talking about league tiers. League tiers are very clearly defined.

The term absolutely can be used subjectively to refer to the level of players, which the other poster was clearly doing. Also, there are some clearly defined tiers (Varsity, JV, etc), but international leagues are not clearly defined levels.

Yes they are.

[jehosafats]

Shane Larkin lol

[Mirotic12]

Sabonis in Euroleague (only since 2000 has there been something called that way) played only in 2004 at 40 years old and was MVP... at 40 years old...

Ginobili played only 2 editions and won 1 ...

ahhh, and last but not least... Spanoulis sucks

They counted everything for players like Sabonis, Pau Gasol, Kirilenko, etc., that played in both the old era and the new era. There was no penalizing Sabonis, Pau, or Kirilenko in that way. Because they count all of the final fours (1988) and all of the championship games (1958). Everything he did could count. So Sabonis had 1 championship, 1 final four MVP, 2 finals appearances. He had a MVP at 39, not 40. However, that MVP was back when they just counted group stages as MVP and not the season. So it's not really a real MVP award. But let's go ahead and be generous and count it anyway.

So an asterisk MVP, 3 final four appearances, 2 finals appearances, 1 championship, and 1 final four MVP. Honestly, it's borderline to make the top 25. It's better than what Mike James, Manu and Luka did in EuroLeague though, and they made the top 25.

But yeah, Sabonis could definitely be in over Mike James on the top 25. Mike James really sticks out on that top 25 list as a guy that shouldn't be there.

[Coach Carter]

This league is a tough watch, for instance no one can jump lol. Kendrick Nunn is like top tier over there... Last season, my team were European champs, tried to get into it but no dice.

[Mirotic12]

This league is a tough watch, for instance no one can jump lol. Kendrick Nunn is like top tier over there... Last season, my team were European champs, tried to get into it but no dice.

He's definitely putting up numbers in the regular season. However, so far in two seasons, he disappears in the playoffs and the final fours. He's also horrible on defense and can't guard anyone. He's basically like EuroLeague's version of James Harden.

[durden_tyler]

Yes, for players.. But they were talking about league tiers. League tiers are very clearly defined.

The term absolutely can be used subjectively to refer to the level of players, which the other poster was clearly doing. Also, there are some clearly defined tiers (Varsity, JV, etc), but international leagues are not clearly defined levels.

Yes they are.

Yes they are. Euroleague and their best players are clearly a tier below (or a couple of tiers) the NBA.


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[azcatz11]

The term absolutely can be used subjectively to refer to the level of players, which the other poster was clearly doing. Also, there are some clearly defined tiers (Varsity, JV, etc), but international leagues are not clearly defined levels.

Yes they are.

Yes they are. Euroleague and their best players are clearly a tier below (or a couple of tiers) the NBA.


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Shane Larkin won an MVP over there...says all I need to know about that league

[durden_tyler]

Yes they are.

Yes they are. Euroleague and their best players are clearly a tier below (or a couple of tiers) the NBA.


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Shane Larkin won an MVP over there...says all I need to know about that league

Next statement of Mirotic: Larkin should not have won an MVP anyway it's the media blah blah blah...

[Myth]

Yes, for players.. But they were talking about league tiers. League tiers are very clearly defined.

The term absolutely can be used subjectively to refer to the level of players, which the other poster was clearly doing. Also, there are some clearly defined tiers (Varsity, JV, etc), but international leagues are not clearly defined levels.

Yes they are.

Do you have a link that shows the objective tier list?

[Woodsanity]

You know a league is weak when Mike James is ranked in the top 10.

He should not be ranked that high. The media voters put him at number 3. So I guess that's how he got 6th overall. European basketball media has a very strange obsession with Mike James.

They call him the EuroLeague GOAT like 20 times a week, even though he's never won a championship and is probably one of the worst players ever at the final four stage.

I think it's because the EuroLeague uses American marketing companies to run its social media, podcasts and such now. It's seems pretty clear that they want an American to be considered the EuroLeague GOAT, and James is the only option they have to push that narrative on.

Objectively speaking, I don't think he's higher than top 30 at best.

But he won euroleague mvp and was euroleague first team twice.

I don't think someone who would win an mvp would be a top 30 player....

[Mirotic12]

Shane Larkin won an MVP over there...says all I need to know about that league

No, he didn't. And that troll is really tired and played out.

Yes they are. Euroleague and their best players are clearly a tier below (or a couple of tiers) the NBA.

Shane Larkin won an MVP over there...says all I need to know about that league

Next statement of Mirotic: Larkin should not have won an MVP anyway it's the media blah blah blah...

Shane Larkin didn't actually win a EuroLeague MVP. He's been using that exact same phrase almost every time anything to do with the EuroLeague is mentioned on the forum.

I guess he thinks it's clever or something.