Holmgren & Hartenstein

[bbms]

Would the Knicks have went as far with iHart and Divo instead of KAT?

Edit: I'm genuinely asking lol. Knicks would also have an extra pick they could use for a midseason deal

No.
The Knicks failed at using Isaiah Hartenstein properly.
Knicks failed to make him part of the offense and OKC did the opposite.

The big men matter.....so....give them the touches and let them shoot the dang ball. It makes them want to perform better on both ends of the floor. Most teams fail at this!

Field goal attempts with:
Knicks 4.9 per game
OKC 8.4 per game

interesting concept

[nbaguy1]

Hartenstein is a good example to a lot of bigs that you don't need to be able to shoot well to stay on the court. The guy is one of the top role players in the NBA and impacts the game way beyond the stat sheet.

Hartenstein has had interesting career, because as a prospect, he was a shooting big, he supposed to be next German hope, he was compared to Dirk... Even in the NBA, early on he shot some 3s and now, interestingly in this era he abandoned it completely. Which is interesting to think, because he is not complete non shooter, but even in this era he was instructed to stop shooting 3s. So it is not all about 3 point shooting still.

I really liked him at the draft, he played for my favorite Euroleague team, Žalgiris, and I mean he did not really play in Euroleague, just in Domestic league, but he had promise. He was one of the very few Euro bench warmer prospects that I would like, probably because he was ranked very low, like late second round. I remember preaching that this guy ain't any worse than Dragan Bender, and Bender was projected top 5 for whatever reason, and Hartenstein was barely draftable. But thats how it often goes with Euro bench warming prospects still to this day, some guys are projected very high for whatever reason, and some are not (Like Nikola Topic last year, I do not get it whats so good about him...)

But I said during Hartensteins final year in Kaunas, this guy is advertised all wrong. He supposed to be next Dirk, and then he moved from German third division to far greater league, and he is no scorer. So all these scout guys figured he just aint good anymore. But I watched most of his LKL guys, I even had some of his highlights on my youtube page, and I said it at a time, this guy is defensive big, his defense is great. But people thought he suppose to be this shooter and scorer and thats why I think his stock was so low and he was drafted late second round... People didn't really know what he really was. He improved a ton in the NBA, but I think mainly in offensive touch, it took a lot of time for NBA teams to figure out this guy can anchor the defense.

I even remember him being advertized as the german lebron. Because of his size, shooting and passing

[UcanUwill]

I even remember him being advertized as the german lebron. Because of his size, shooting and passing

Yeah, and in some levels I bet he definitely looked like Dirk or Lebron. Dario Saric looked liked Magic Johnson in major FIBA youth tournaments, some people, especially in America I feel, do not get how good these NBA guys really are, even the least skilled bigs in the NBA in reality would have greatest handle you would ever see.

[Sign5]

We keep hearing holmgren is a stick..and well he is lol but he holds his own. He played 72 games at center as a rookie with no real size next to him and was fine with his team being one of the best.

He fits the mold of more modern bigs like mobley, turner, kat..guys that can score around the basket, shoot and, rebound/block shots at a high level.

Super underrated rim protector

I know people love Wemby (for the right reasons), but Chet does a damn great job of contesting everything. He's already one of the best rim protectors in the NBA.

chet has the most technically sound rim protection out of this crop of centers (wemby, mobley, him), and probably the best suited to anchor an elite all time defense like this just because of his iq.

What makes him more technically sound as a rim protector than Wemby?

[zimpy27]

"Holm is where the Hart is"


Tell me OKC be selling gimmicks with that on them

[RoxSteady]

Would the Knicks have went as far with iHart and Divo instead of KAT?

Edit: I'm genuinely asking lol. Knicks would also have an extra pick they could use for a midseason deal

No.
The Knicks failed at using Isaiah Hartenstein properly.
Knicks failed to make him part of the offense and OKC did the opposite.

The big men matter.....so....give them the touches and let them shoot the dang ball. It makes them want to perform better on both ends of the floor. Most teams fail at this!

Field goal attempts with:
Knicks 4.9 per game
OKC 8.4 per game

interesting concept

The insinuation that the Knicks somehow coughed up Hartenstein is inaccurate and annoying. OKC was allowed under the CBA to offer more than NY and Hartenstein took the higher offer. Asking if the Knicks would be better off with Hartenstein this season is like asking if the Knicks would be better off with Jokic this season. They couldn't have either, but yes, they'd be better off.

Hartenstein was integral last season in a run that almost got them to the ECF mostly without OG, Randle, or Mitchell Robinson. Brunson had the most FGA per game in the playoffs last season but it was very much working until additional injuries derailed things.

If you're asking if the Knicks would be better off with RANDLE and Divo (that may have been what you meant), you have a more legitimate question.

[bbms]

Super underrated rim protector

I know people love Wemby (for the right reasons), but Chet does a damn great job of contesting everything. He's already one of the best rim protectors in the NBA.

chet has the most technically sound rim protection out of this crop of centers (wemby, mobley, him), and probably the best suited to anchor an elite all time defense like this just because of his iq.

What makes him more technically sound as a rim protector than Wemby?

for 1 footwork, how he's almost never beat vs faceup dribblers, and for 2 how he moves from those awkwards help angles and spots the thunder sends helps and traps, and how he's able to recover from those weird positions to provide help defense

it's almost like he knows the shortcuts of the court and provide rim protection from defensive plays he has no business providing

[flow]

Would the Knicks have went as far with iHart and Divo instead of KAT?

Edit: I'm genuinely asking lol. Knicks would also have an extra pick they could use for a midseason deal

No.
The Knicks failed at using Isaiah Hartenstein properly.
Knicks failed to make him part of the offense and OKC did the opposite.

The big men matter.....so....give them the touches and let them shoot the dang ball. It makes them want to perform better on both ends of the floor. Most teams fail at this!

Field goal attempts with:
Knicks 4.9 per game
OKC 8.4 per game

I get what you're saying, but Hartenstein had huge impact in his role. It's hard to say that he was misused.

.

[Moose]

No.
The Knicks failed at using Isaiah Hartenstein properly.
Knicks failed to make him part of the offense and OKC did the opposite.

The big men matter.....so....give them the touches and let them shoot the dang ball. It makes them want to perform better on both ends of the floor. Most teams fail at this!

Field goal attempts with:
Knicks 4.9 per game
OKC 8.4 per game

interesting concept

The insinuation that the Knicks somehow coughed up Hartenstein is inaccurate and annoying. OKC was allowed under the CBA to offer more than NY and Hartenstein took the higher offer. Asking if the Knicks would be better off with Hartenstein this season is like asking if the Knicks would be better off with Jokic this season. They couldn't have either, but yes, they'd be better off.

Hartenstein was integral last season in a run that almost got them to the ECF mostly without OG, Randle, or Mitchell Robinson. Brunson had the most FGA per game in the playoffs last season but it was very much working until additional injuries derailed things.

If you're asking if the Knicks would be better off with RANDLE and Divo (that may have been what you meant), you have a more legitimate question.

I know the reason behind iHart not being kept. It was meant as a fun question, which could also highlight / let's use see how people view iHart's value to a team.

[Moose]

Would the Knicks have went as far with iHart and Divo instead of KAT?

Edit: I'm genuinely asking lol. Knicks would also have an extra pick they could use for a midseason deal

No.
The Knicks failed at using Isaiah Hartenstein properly.
Knicks failed to make him part of the offense and OKC did the opposite.

The big men matter.....so....give them the touches and let them shoot the dang ball. It makes them want to perform better on both ends of the floor. Most teams fail at this!

Field goal attempts with:
Knicks 4.9 per game
OKC 8.4 per game

I get what you're saying, but Hartenstein had huge impact in his role. It's hard to say that he was misused.

.

His role also grew as the season went on and many saw/thought that he could be part of a free flowing / good offense

[CodeBreaker]

Read on Twitter

[RoxSteady]

interesting concept

The insinuation that the Knicks somehow coughed up Hartenstein is inaccurate and annoying. OKC was allowed under the CBA to offer more than NY and Hartenstein took the higher offer. Asking if the Knicks would be better off with Hartenstein this season is like asking if the Knicks would be better off with Jokic this season. They couldn't have either, but yes, they'd be better off.

Hartenstein was integral last season in a run that almost got them to the ECF mostly without OG, Randle, or Mitchell Robinson. Brunson had the most FGA per game in the playoffs last season but it was very much working until additional injuries derailed things.

If you're asking if the Knicks would be better off with RANDLE and Divo (that may have been what you meant), you have a more legitimate question.

I know the reason behind iHart not being kept. It was meant as a fun question, which could also highlight / let's use see how people view iHart's value to a team.

Sorry, I'm reacting to other things I've seen online like saying Hartenstein is an example of "one man's trash is another man's treasure." To answer your question, I think I-Hart would've been extremely valuable, had they been able to re-sign him. His departure hurt.

[jk31]

Hartenstein is a good example to a lot of bigs that you don't need to be able to shoot well to stay on the court. The guy is one of the top role players in the NBA and impacts the game way beyond the stat sheet.

which is a really funny/ironic statement if you look at what he did in his youth. even when playing for the u18 national team he was often bringing the ball up the court and shooting from the outside, even some stepbacks.

[ShootersShoot]

We keep hearing holmgren is a stick..and well he is lol but he holds his own. He played 72 games at center as a rookie with no real size next to him and was fine with his team being one of the best.

He fits the mold of ideal modern bigs like mobley, turner..guys that can score around the basket, shoot and, rebound/block shots at a high level.

Hart is a quality defensive anchor, and really not that much worse if at all than gobert overall.

Having two starting bigs who can rebound and protect the rim at a high level is something most teams can only dream of

Luckily the cap will separate them soon enough

He played 82 games, not 72. Played in all playoff games as well, for a total of 92 games in a single season. I don't think that was a wise thing to do as he was pretty much burnt out by the end of the Mavs series, but yeah.

Ah thanks Ive updated to the correct number

[165bows]

We keep hearing holmgren is a stick..and well he is lol but he holds his own. He played 72 games at center as a rookie with no real size next to him and was fine with his team being one of the best.

He fits the mold of more modern bigs like mobley, turner, kat..guys that can score around the basket, shoot and, rebound/block shots at a high level.

Super underrated rim protector

I know people love Wemby (for the right reasons), but Chet does a damn great job of contesting everything. He's already one of the best rim protectors in the NBA.

Yeah agree he’s under rated for sure.

[CoP]

Interesting:

- Holmgren + Hartenstein, 2025 WCF (5 games): 51/85, 124 points, 64% eFG, 66% TS, 60 rebounds, 12 assists, 7 steals, 12 blocks, 11 turnovers

- Lively + Gafford, 2024 WCF (5 games): 40/48, 92 points, 83% eFG, 82% TS, 65 rebounds, 12 assists, 1 steal, 19 blocks, 9 turnovers

[Un4given]

iHart was definitely the type of player OKC was missing last year and amazing pickup.

But going forward I don't think paying him 30M per year is reasonable if they see him as a 25 mpg guy in their rotation.

As crazy as it sounds, OKC is still a rebuilding team (just being so much in front of a schedule that they are front runners too). And attaching those picks to a positive value contract(s) for an upgrade is such a natural way to finish rebuild.

No matter how the finals end, I think Presti could make a move and pack Hartenstein + some additional pieces + picks + some additional pieces if needed for a even more impactful piece.

[Patches Perry]

Hartensteins passing is awesome. He is also a fantastic screener and high post player. Very good lob threat too.

Chets a better 3pt shooter, better off the dribble, better defender in space and better rim protector.

They have very different strengths suitable for different situations but unfortunately their lineups together are relatively underwhelming. I don't see Hartenstein lasting past this contract with OKC due to his high salary but he will be difficult to replace. I'm hoping Jwill can be an Ihart lite type guy with continued improvement.

[Dan Z]

Would the Knicks have went as far with iHart and Divo instead of KAT?

Edit: I'm genuinely asking lol. Knicks would also have an extra pick they could use for a midseason deal

No.
The Knicks failed at using Isaiah Hartenstein properly.
Knicks failed to make him part of the offense and OKC did the opposite.

The big men matter.....so....give them the touches and let them shoot the dang ball. It makes them want to perform better on both ends of the floor. Most teams fail at this!

Field goal attempts with:
Knicks 4.9 per game
OKC 8.4 per game

I thought he played well with the Knicks...?

OKC is a different team. I'm not sure if the Knicks could make him a bigger part of the offense and for it to work.

But I do think he's been an underrated player throughout his career.I'm surprised that more teams didn't go after him in free agency.

[Dan Z]

iHart was definitely the type of player OKC was missing last year and amazing pickup.

But going forward I don't think paying him 30M per year is reasonable if they see him as a 25 mpg guy in their rotation.

As crazy as it sounds, OKC is still a rebuilding team (just being so much in front of a schedule that they are front runners too). And attaching those picks to a positive value contract(s) for an upgrade is such a natural way to finish rebuild.

No matter how the finals end, I think Presti could make a move and pack Hartenstein + some additional pieces + picks + some additional pieces if needed for a even more impactful piece.

What player do you think they could go after that would do a better job? Giannis? He'll cost a lot and going after him has been discussed many times. Anyone else?