Who wins? 2011 Mavs to 2019 Raptors

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Who wins?

2011 Mavs
77
40%
2019 Raptors
116
60%
 
Total votes: 193

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Re: Who wins? 2011 Mavs to 2019 Raptors 

Post#21 » by dhsilv2 » Tue Jun 17, 2025 1:36 pm

Showtime 80 wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Showtime 80 wrote:
Everything in today’s short attention span world is “historical”, “legendary”, “best ever” :banghead:

Very simple deduction, historically great teams don’t win just 58 games in the RS and lose 8 times in the playoffs, they do not qualify neither do the 11 Mavs. Don’t confuse historic playoff runs like the 01 Lakers and 95 Rockets with all time great teams.


I'm sorry that you have a short attention span. But that raptor's team absolutely was an all time team. Also LOL on the 1995 rockets.


Bud if we’re now giving all time team status to a squad with less than 60 wins in the RS and a 16-8 playoff record along with being taken to 7 games by the friggin Sixers then my friend that title has lost all its meaning. This while also playing in the Leastern Conference and facing a depleted Warriors team in the Finals.

At least with one hit wonder “all time teams” like the 71 Bucks, 72 Lakers or 83 Sixers they absolutely dominated from tape to tape leaving no doubt who was the top dog for those seasons at least not to mention their best players were a level above Kawhit and Siakam.


It's hard to take someone serious who's talking on here like a 14 year old.

But just for a second, why do you think I might not be looking at their regular season record? Do you even know enough about this team to discuss them?
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Re: Who wins? 2011 Mavs to 2019 Raptors 

Post#22 » by Canadafan » Tue Jun 17, 2025 1:42 pm

Can tell there's a lot of raps fans on realgm
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Re: Who wins? 2011 Mavs to 2019 Raptors 

Post#23 » by BrianInPhilly » Tue Jun 17, 2025 1:45 pm

As a huge Mavs fan I’d probably pick Toronto. Mavs were not some huge talented team especially with Caron Butler out in the playoffs. What’s interesting is they are actually structured very similarly in my opinion BESIDES center spot. Gasol being a floor spacer as opposed to Chandler really gives them the edge in my opinion.

Midrange assassin - Dirk / Kawhi
Paint scorer / defender - Marion / Siakam
Intangibles PG - Kidd / Lowry
Scoring/shooting guards - Terry & Barea / Van Fleet & Green
Wing defender - Stevenson , Powell
Defensive center - Gasol / Chandler

Prob a toss up but spacing better on Toronto.
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Re: Who wins? 2011 Mavs to 2019 Raptors 

Post#24 » by JJ_PR » Tue Jun 17, 2025 2:00 pm

2011 Mavs had one of the best playoff runs ever. The same can't be said about the 2019 Raptors. Not trying to diminish their title, it was impressive, but I'm taking 2011 Mavs. The coaching aspect also comes into play, Carlisle is top notch.
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Re: Who wins? 2011 Mavs to 2019 Raptors 

Post#25 » by Iwasawitness » Tue Jun 17, 2025 2:24 pm

Maverick41 wrote:
Iwasawitness wrote:This Miami team that Dallas beat was nothing special. They were an above average team that featured three superstar players but were horrible outside of them. Dallas already had their number prior to beating them in the finals.

Nothing special? 3 HoF players, 1 of which is arguably the GOAT. Not to mention Spo who will be in the HoF one day too. They were ramming through the East prior to the finals and until the 4th quarter of G2, darn near everyone wrote off DAL as just not on their level. It seems that many forget that D-Wade was also SIGNIFICANTLY better in this year then he was in future Heatles years. If they were nothing special, it's because the Mavs beat them and made it look like they weren't.


First off, LeBron wasn't a GOAT level player at that point. He had exploitable flaws that Dallas used to shut him down. Second, Spo wasn't a HOF worthy coach at that point. He got horribly out coached by Rick in that series. Third, ramming through the East is an exaggeration. Boston had injuries to multiple key players and Chicago was easy pickings thanks to LeBron shutting down the MVP Rose.

Fourth, Yeah yeah yeah yeah I've heard it all and it's always the same thing every single time. "Oh but they had three superstar!"You know what? I have a question for people who keep repeating this line.

So what? Why should I care that they had three hall of famers? They didn't fit well together in their first year together. They had a losing record against the best teams in the league. They had practically no depth. They had major chemistry issues.

What possible reason do I have to care that they had three hall of famers? We've seen multiple teams with far more depth, better fitting pieces, and better coaching for that matter, all while also having three hall of famers. And the thing is? That didn't stop Dallas from being the better team. They had all of those things mentioned expect for three superstars because, guess what? You don't need three superstars on a team, and it's usually not a good idea. And in Miami's case, they didn't become a truly elite team until Bosh deferred to becoming a specialized roleplayer. Gee, funny how that works!

And above all else, as I already mentioned before, Dallas had Miami's number going into the finals already. Toronto at least had a losing record against Milwaukee going into their playoff series (1-3 in regular season matchups). I'm far more impressed with the fact they made actual adjustments to beat an elite Milwaukee team than I am with Dallas beating a team they were already better than.

I will never understand why people just blindly look at LeBron, Wade, and Bosh being on the team and don't factor in anything else beyond that. They did it back then why I said Dallas would win that series and people laughed at me, and for some reason we still see it now after Dallas already beat them and the flaws were there on display.

They weren't anything special. It's okay to admit that.
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Re: Who wins? 2011 Mavs to 2019 Raptors 

Post#26 » by NZB2323 » Tue Jun 17, 2025 2:33 pm

BrianInPhilly wrote:As a huge Mavs fan I’d probably pick Toronto. Mavs were not some huge talented team especially with Caron Butler out in the playoffs. What’s interesting is they are actually structured very similarly in my opinion BESIDES center spot. Gasol being a floor spacer as opposed to Chandler really gives them the edge in my opinion.

Midrange assassin - Dirk / Kawhi
Paint scorer / defender - Marion / Siakam
Intangibles PG - Kidd / Lowry
Scoring/shooting guards - Terry & Barea / Van Fleet & Green
Wing defender - Stevenson , Powell
Defensive center - Gasol / Chandler

Prob a toss up but spacing better on Toronto.


Injured player who missed the playoffs- Butler/OG

Very similar teams. Both coaches went with unique defenses in the finals, with the Mavs running a 2-3 zone and the Raptors using a box-and-1.
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Re: Who wins? 2011 Mavs to 2019 Raptors 

Post#27 » by Iwasawitness » Tue Jun 17, 2025 2:34 pm

Showtime 80 wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
Showtime 80 wrote:
Everything in today’s short attention span world is “historical”, “legendary”, “best ever” :banghead:

Very simple deduction, historically great teams don’t win just 58 games in the RS and lose 8 times in the playoffs, they do not qualify neither do the 11 Mavs. Don’t confuse historic playoff runs like the 01 Lakers and 95 Rockets with all time great teams.


I'm sorry that you have a short attention span. But that raptor's team absolutely was an all time team. Also LOL on the 1995 rockets.


Bud if we’re now giving all time team status to a squad with less than 60 wins in the RS and a 16-8 playoff record along with being taken to 7 games by the friggin Sixers then my friend that title has lost all its meaning. This while also playing in the Leastern Conference and facing a depleted Warriors team in the Finals.

At least with one hit wonder “all time teams” like the 71 Bucks, 72 Lakers or 83 Sixers they absolutely dominated from tape to tape leaving no doubt who was the top dog for those seasons at least not to mention their best players were a level above Kawhit and Siakam.


Raptors had a lot of injuries throughout the season and inconsistent lineups. Only three players on the team managed to play more than 70 games, that being Siakam, Green and Ibaka. Kawhi himself missed 22 games, Lowry missed 17. The fact that they still win 58 games despite this is pretty damn impressive.
ImmortalD24 wrote:Swap 2008 Mo Williams with Garland this post season and Cavs would be up right now on the verge of sweeping the Pacers.
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Re: Who wins? 2011 Mavs to 2019 Raptors 

Post#28 » by dhsilv2 » Tue Jun 17, 2025 2:39 pm

Iwasawitness wrote:
Showtime 80 wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
I'm sorry that you have a short attention span. But that raptor's team absolutely was an all time team. Also LOL on the 1995 rockets.


Bud if we’re now giving all time team status to a squad with less than 60 wins in the RS and a 16-8 playoff record along with being taken to 7 games by the friggin Sixers then my friend that title has lost all its meaning. This while also playing in the Leastern Conference and facing a depleted Warriors team in the Finals.

At least with one hit wonder “all time teams” like the 71 Bucks, 72 Lakers or 83 Sixers they absolutely dominated from tape to tape leaving no doubt who was the top dog for those seasons at least not to mention their best players were a level above Kawhit and Siakam.


Raptors had a lot of injuries throughout the season and inconsistent lineups. Only three players on the team managed to play more than 70 games, that being Siakam, Green and Ibaka. Kawhi himself missed 22 games, Lowry missed 17. The fact that they still win 58 games despite this is pretty damn impressive.


While that's important, what he also likely doesn't remember is that they made the trade for Gasol late in the season. And you know...it takes time to integrate new players. And that's after adding two starters over the off season on top of all that.
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Re: Who wins? 2011 Mavs to 2019 Raptors 

Post#29 » by tsherkin » Tue Jun 17, 2025 2:50 pm

I say Raps take this in 7.

Dallas had excellent defense, strong contribution from its roleplayers and a pretty boss star... but Marc compares well to 2011 Tyson and Kawhi that year to Dirk pretty well, too. And I think we had better breadth of scoring. Siakam would give Dirk about as much trouble as anyone could at that point.

And I think the Raps would be able to step on the Mavs if they had as many rough first halves as Dirk did in the actual 2011 run (before his inevitable second-half thunder run to close things out, of course).

7, though. Dallas was never going to be an easy out, even against a really good squad like the 2019 Raps.
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Re: Who wins? 2011 Mavs to 2019 Raptors 

Post#30 » by TheGeneral99 » Tue Jun 17, 2025 2:55 pm

Raptors were a crazy team:

Lowry - all-star and great two way player/floor general
Green - one of the best 3+D players in the league
Kawhi - MVP caliber and easily a top 3 player when healthy and one of the best two way players
Siakam - all-star caliber and great on both ends
Gasol - even as he aged he was still an elite defender, a very good shooter, and high IQ facilitator
Fred - one of the best back up point guards in the NBA
Norm - one of the best bench players in the NBA
Ibaka - one of the best bench bigs in the NBA, great shot blocker, defender good shooter
*OG - was injured that playoffs but a nice 3+D player

So that team really had no weakness in the starting line up and had a fantastic bench to match. Every could shoot, everybody could defend, they had an elite iso closer in Kawhi, they could play small, they could play big...
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Re: Who wins? 2011 Mavs to 2019 Raptors 

Post#31 » by Optms » Tue Jun 17, 2025 5:36 pm

Iwasawitness wrote:
Optms wrote:
Iwasawitness wrote:
Raptors went through the Butler/Embiid/Simmons/Harris 76ers and the 60 win bucks with the MVP winner Giannis. None of the teams the Mavericks beat were as good as these two.


Mavs beat the young talented 48 win Blazers team (before injuries destroyed them), the 55 win Thunder, 57 win Lakers (2 time defending Champs) and the 57 win Miami Heat superteam that went on to win 2 titles.

2019 was a strong playoff run for the Raptors but the Mavs 2011 run was one of the most impressive of all time. Its not even a debate.


Lakers were on the backend of their time and were starting to get up there in age.

Thunder were the best team of the group and were in fact very good, but they were up against a veteran squad who took them to school.

This Miami team that Dallas beat was nothing special. They were an above average team that featured three superstar players but were horrible outside of them. Dallas already had their number prior to beating them in the finals.

Don't get me wrong, it was a good story driven run but it's gotten horribly overrated with time.

In other words, it's absolutely a debate. We need to stop pretending the Mavs were massive underdogs beating all time great teams. They didn't.


Green font? If the Mav's don't beat LA, the Lakers make it to their 4 straight Finals. OKC literately made the Finals the next year. Nothing fluke driven about that one. And as for their Finals matchup, the Miami Heat went on to win multiple titles with a core that consisted of a prime Lebron, Wade and Bosh. We are talking about one of the greatest Dynasties if Dallas doesn't win in 2011. That is who Dallas beat. If the Heat were "nothing special" then all championship teams sans the Warriors are cupcake fodder.

Now lets compare those opponents to the Raptors - the only reason they even won the chip was due to the Warriors injury collapse. Everyone already agrees that a healthy Warriors team doesn't lose. Now lets look at Philly. Good opponent for the time but what did Philly accomplish? Simmons? Embiid? One of the most overrated players of our time who both failed miserably there on after. Bucks, yes solid. But not better than the 2011 Thunder, Lakers, or Heat.

Lets now compare 1st round match ups. Dallas beat the 48 win Portland Blazers. Raptors beat a Magic team that won 42 games. This isn't the hill you want to die on bro. Raptors had a great team. Strong schedule of opponents. But what Dallas did in terms strength of opponents likely won't be done again. And they did it with one star, a washed up Jason Kidd and a bunch of players that wouldn't even have started on the Thunder, Heat or Lakers that year.
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Re: Who wins? 2011 Mavs to 2019 Raptors 

Post#32 » by SonicMcMahon » Tue Jun 17, 2025 6:03 pm

Dallas had the more impressive championship in terms of the road to get there. But I think that Raptors team was better. They were just so stacked and found amazing synergy, especially in the last 2 rounds. Kawhi was a god in the first two rounds. Then, as Kawhi slowed a little, Lowry really stepped up, Van Vleet became a flame-thrower, and the whole squad played at a very high level.

I'm biased, but I give this one to the Raps.
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Re: Who wins? 2011 Mavs to 2019 Raptors 

Post#33 » by Effigy » Tue Jun 17, 2025 6:09 pm

mdonnelly1989 wrote:Interesting poll so far

Didn’t the Mavs go through the Trailblazers Thunder and Heat?


They did. It's not close, they were much better. But this is basically a Raptors board so..... :lol:
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Re: Who wins? 2011 Mavs to 2019 Raptors 

Post#34 » by TheGeneral99 » Tue Jun 17, 2025 6:26 pm

SonicMcMahon wrote:Dallas had the more impressive championship in terms of the road to get there. But I think that Raptors team was better. They were just so stacked and found amazing synergy, especially in the last 2 rounds. Kawhi was a god in the first two rounds. Then, as Kawhi slowed a little, Lowry really stepped up, Van Vleet became a flame-thrower, and the whole squad played at a very high level.

I'm biased, but I give this one to the Raps.


Dallas had a crazy road, but think the Raptors road is really underrated.

They faced a juggernaut Sixers team with prime Embiid, Butler, Simmons, and Harris in the 2nd round.

Then they faced the Bucks with prime Giannis, Middleton, Lopez, Brogdon and Bledsoe, the team that had the best record in the NBA with the MVP.
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Re: Who wins? 2011 Mavs to 2019 Raptors 

Post#35 » by The Servant » Tue Jun 17, 2025 6:31 pm

Iwasawitness wrote:
mdonnelly1989 wrote:Interesting poll so far

Didn’t the Mavs go through the Trailblazers Thunder and Heat?


Raptors went through the Butler/Embiid/Simmons/Harris 76ers and the 60 win bucks with the MVP winner Giannis. None of the teams the Mavericks beat were as good as these two.


KD, Harden and Russ were a core that went to the Finals, Embiid, Simmons and Butler weren't it close to that. The Heat were stronger than the injured Warriors squad that the Raptors beat (KD and Klay down). I don't see anyone slowing down Dirk from getting his, this run was legendary and included a 50 point performance on 25 shots by Dirk.
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Re: Who wins? 2011 Mavs to 2019 Raptors 

Post#36 » by The Servant » Tue Jun 17, 2025 6:37 pm

Iwasawitness wrote:
Optms wrote:
Iwasawitness wrote:
Raptors went through the Butler/Embiid/Simmons/Harris 76ers and the 60 win bucks with the MVP winner Giannis. None of the teams the Mavericks beat were as good as these two.


Mavs beat the young talented 48 win Blazers team (before injuries destroyed them), the 55 win Thunder, 57 win Lakers (2 time defending Champs) and the 57 win Miami Heat superteam that went on to win 2 titles.

2019 was a strong playoff run for the Raptors but the Mavs 2011 run was one of the most impressive of all time. Its not even a debate.


Lakers were on the backend of their time and were starting to get up there in age.

Thunder were the best team of the group and were in fact very good, but they were up against a veteran squad who took them to school.

This Miami team that Dallas beat was nothing special. They were an above average team that featured three superstar players but were horrible outside of them. Dallas already had their number prior to beating them in the finals.

Don't get me wrong, it was a good story driven run but it's gotten horribly overrated with time.

In other words, it's absolutely a debate. We need to stop pretending the Mavs were massive underdogs beating all time great teams. They didn't.


The # 3 offence and # 5 defence, anchored by the best player in the league and 2nd best player of all time was nothing special. :crazy:
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Re: Who wins? 2011 Mavs to 2019 Raptors 

Post#37 » by Iwasawitness » Tue Jun 17, 2025 7:46 pm

Optms wrote:
Iwasawitness wrote:
Optms wrote:
Mavs beat the young talented 48 win Blazers team (before injuries destroyed them), the 55 win Thunder, 57 win Lakers (2 time defending Champs) and the 57 win Miami Heat superteam that went on to win 2 titles.

2019 was a strong playoff run for the Raptors but the Mavs 2011 run was one of the most impressive of all time. Its not even a debate.


Lakers were on the backend of their time and were starting to get up there in age.

Thunder were the best team of the group and were in fact very good, but they were up against a veteran squad who took them to school.

This Miami team that Dallas beat was nothing special. They were an above average team that featured three superstar players but were horrible outside of them. Dallas already had their number prior to beating them in the finals.

Don't get me wrong, it was a good story driven run but it's gotten horribly overrated with time.

In other words, it's absolutely a debate. We need to stop pretending the Mavs were massive underdogs beating all time great teams. They didn't.


Green font? If the Mav's don't beat LA, the Lakers make it to their 4 straight Finals. OKC literately made the Finals the next year. Nothing fluke driven about that one. And as for their Finals matchup, the Miami Heat went on to win multiple titles with a core that consisted of a prime Lebron, Wade and Bosh. We are talking about one of the greatest Dynasties if Dallas doesn't win in 2011. That is who Dallas beat. If the Heat were "nothing special" then all championship teams sans the Warriors are cupcake fodder.

Now lets compare those opponents to the Raptors - the only reason they even won the chip was due to the Warriors injury collapse. Everyone already agrees that a healthy Warriors team doesn't lose. Now lets look at Philly. Good opponent for the time but what did Philly accomplish? Simmons? Embiid? One of the most overrated players of our time who both failed miserably there on after. Bucks, yes solid. But not better than the 2011 Thunder, Lakers, or Heat.

Lets now compare 1st round match ups. Dallas beat the 48 win Portland Blazers. Raptors beat a Magic team that won 42 games. This isn't the hill you want to die on bro. Raptors had a great team. Strong schedule of opponents. But what Dallas did in terms strength of opponents likely won't be done again. And they did it with one star, a washed up Jason Kidd and a bunch of players that wouldn't even have started on the Thunder, Heat or Lakers that year.


No green font at all, you're just purposely leaving out a LOT of context.

For example, you mention that the Heat core of LeBron/Wade/Bosh went to the finals the next three years and won two, but you aren't mentioning why. A lot of internal changes had to occur for Miami to truly improve. For starters, LeBron had to learn how to do more than just attack defenses and hope his jumper would fall. He developed an elite post game on top of putting in the time and effort to actually improve his jumper. This allowed him to actually attack defenses in a variety of ways, regardless of whether or not he had sufficient spacing. Chris Bosh had to put on muscle and develop a three point shot to improve Miami's spacing and allow him to move to center, which they desperately needed. The additions of Battier and Cole improved their depth and Mike Miller actually managed to stay healthy. This allowed Miami to actually develop a legitimate team with affective rotations that didn't rely heavily on their big three.

In other words, the difference between the 2011 and 2012 Heat is night and day. I'll gladly take the 19 76ers and Bucks over the 2011 Heat without hesitation.

2011 Thunder are also a different story from 2012. 2012 Thunder featured great internal improvement on their end, the addition of veterans, and a lot of lessons learned from their Mavs defeat. Ibaka in particular, as great as a defender as he was, had no clue how to guard Dirk.

And it's funny that you're asking what did the 76ers accomplish... What did the Thunder accomplish? What did the Heat accomplish? Why are you asking this question for Philly but not for them?
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Re: Who wins? 2011 Mavs to 2019 Raptors 

Post#38 » by Iwasawitness » Tue Jun 17, 2025 9:10 pm

The Servant wrote:
Iwasawitness wrote:
Optms wrote:
Mavs beat the young talented 48 win Blazers team (before injuries destroyed them), the 55 win Thunder, 57 win Lakers (2 time defending Champs) and the 57 win Miami Heat superteam that went on to win 2 titles.

2019 was a strong playoff run for the Raptors but the Mavs 2011 run was one of the most impressive of all time. Its not even a debate.


Lakers were on the backend of their time and were starting to get up there in age.

Thunder were the best team of the group and were in fact very good, but they were up against a veteran squad who took them to school.

This Miami team that Dallas beat was nothing special. They were an above average team that featured three superstar players but were horrible outside of them. Dallas already had their number prior to beating them in the finals.

Don't get me wrong, it was a good story driven run but it's gotten horribly overrated with time.

In other words, it's absolutely a debate. We need to stop pretending the Mavs were massive underdogs beating all time great teams. They didn't.


The # 3 offence and # 5 defence, anchored by the best player in the league and 2nd best player of all time was nothing special. :crazy:


Yes, they were nothing special. If you only have three good players on your team, they are nothing special.
ImmortalD24 wrote:Swap 2008 Mo Williams with Garland this post season and Cavs would be up right now on the verge of sweeping the Pacers.
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Re: Who wins? 2011 Mavs to 2019 Raptors 

Post#39 » by oldncreaky » Tue Jun 17, 2025 9:27 pm

Funniest comment was that the 1983 Sixers were a "one hit wonder" when they made the Finals from the tougher conference in 3 out of 4 years!

Any Finals between champions would probably be close, but I'd have the Raptors in 6 or 7
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Re: Who wins? 2011 Mavs to 2019 Raptors 

Post#40 » by Anticon » Tue Jun 17, 2025 9:57 pm

My two favourite title teams of the last decade.

The Mavs has that veteran guile where they just got what they needed when they needed it.

I tend to think Marion would have done a good job on Kawhi, and Kidd on Lowry. The Raps backcourt would have done well against Terry and Stevenson, and Pascals speed might have been hard for Dirk to handle.

But overall I think the Mavs come ahead on the front court. Chandler would have been well capable of managing Gasol and Ibaka, and I don't think either of them would have held back Dirk.

Would be interesting to hear from Western Conference watchers from those days on how Dirk fared against Ibaka and Gasol.

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