John Stockton vs Chris Paul all time who you voting?

[dhsilv2]

I'm voting CP3 because he was just better at his best. But the injuries in the playoffs make this a tough one for me.

[tamaraw08]

Paul is the superior talent but availability is the best ability

This, CP3 with better talent but has missed way too many critical playoff games particularly after the first round.

[KirkHinrich12]

Anyone voting CP3 is under 35 years old is my guess. Stockton hands down the better all timer. The guy was a machine.

I agree CP3 might have had a higher peak. But he was always the best player on his team. I think Stockton could’ve had a bigger scoring impact if he didn’t set up Malone and other teammates so much.

[pipfan]

Similar players-very close. Either one is a good choice

[Effigy]

Chris Paul wears better shorts. John Stockton wins all the other categories.

[jkvonny]

I like them both.
Similar players, playing style, leadership, great basketball IQ, elevated team play, etc.
Either choice is good.

Stockton stayed healthier during his career, tho. Great chemistry with longtime teammates and Karl Malone, and coaches. Utah Jazz from the late '80s, '90s, early '00s were tuff. Elites in the West for many of those years.
They've had deeper playoff runs consistently as well. Multiple WCFs and NBA Finsls.

CP3 bounced around at times but had huge impacts everywhere he went. New Orleans, LA Clips, Suns, Rockets, etc.

I voted Stockton due to health. Never seem to miss any playoff games. CP3 missed quite a few over the years.

[Joao Saraiva]

I got Stockton. His longevity is superb, impact on both ends, great impact even very late in his career. Peak I lean towards CP3 but it's close. Let's not forget that peak Stockton was actually outplaying Magic in 88 in a tight series, altough Stokcton never mounted a true MVP case like 08 CP3.

Well, he had a really nice game 7. Prior to that, he was averaging 17.7 / 3.8 / 15.8 on 47.5 / 20.0 / 78.4 (55.0% TS).

Over the first 6 games, Magic averaged 18.0 / 3.8 / 9.3 on 48.2 / 0.0 / 87.5 (55.6% TS) with his weak game 6. He'd dropped a 3/12 stinker in Game 6 (which Utah won), only managing 10 points. The whole Lakers team came out and laid an egg in that one.

In Game 7, LA won pretty handily. Stockton had a 29/20 game, which was remarkable. Malone had a huge game. Thurl Bailey had a huge game off the bench. But Magic himself had a 23/9/16 game on 9/15 shooting and Byron Scott lit it up, then Mychal Thompson and Coop were solid off the bench. Everyone was clicking.

I don't know that it's right to say Stockton was outplaying Magic in the series. He was playing well, and he had a huge Game 7 that wasn't enough. LA got more out of its bench and beat the snot out of Utah on the offensive glass (Magic himself had 4 offensive rebounds that game; Utah as a team had 6).

Hell of a series, though.

You bring up the Magic bad game but Stockton's game 1 he had 7 points on 3-13. After that...
19 points 13 ast
22 pts 12 ast 5 stl
21 pts 13 ast 4 stl
23 pts 24 ast 5 stl
14 pts 17 ast 3 stl
29 pts 20 ast 5 stl

Besides G1 he actually outplayed Magic. Jazz were just not deep enough.

[dhsilv2]

Anyone voting CP3 is under 35 years old is my guess. Stockton hands down the better all timer. The guy was a machine.

I agree CP3 might have had a higher peak. But he was always the best player on his team. I think Stockton could’ve had a bigger scoring impact if he didn’t set up Malone and other teammates so much.

I would guess the opposite. I think older guys remember Stockton better for what he wasn't. He wasn't able to score when his team desperately needed him to, outside of the run and gun series vs the warriors. Younger guys see more the crazy big career stats and don't recall his shortcomings as much.

Of course...at the end of the day, it's really about who watches games from the past and who doesn't. If everyone just goes off memory of live games. We don't generally get accurate takes because those games were 30 years ago.

[Capn'O]

Stockton by a hair.

[og15]

I'm voting CP3 because he was just better at his best. But the injuries in the playoffs make this a tough one for me.

Yup, durability is actually my hang up for taking Paul. Without the durability factor, Paul and Stockton have a similar baseline impact level, but Paul's top level is better and he can give me support as a scorer more often than not. For example, Paul scores 30+ in the playoffs many more times than KG, but if you just asked people, many would think KG, who we do think his scoring was his "weakest" attribute was a better scorer than Paul.

Paul seems to get underrated as a scorer, and definitely so with some of the claims from this thread. That said, durability wise, that's a hard one to oveecome in that Stockton is always available while Paul goes down at many critical times, so that closes the gap from a career standpoint.

[tsherkin]

You bring up the Magic bad game but Stockton's game 1 he had 7 points on 3-13. After that...
19 points 13 ast
22 pts 12 ast 5 stl
21 pts 13 ast 4 stl
23 pts 24 ast 5 stl
14 pts 17 ast 3 stl
29 pts 20 ast 5 stl

Besides G1 he actually outplayed Magic. Jazz were just not deep enough.

Yeah, so through 6 games, they looked very similar, and both had a rough one. Then both had an excellent game 7, but LA's depth won them the series.

[aliasxn]

Stockton any day

[Tomtolbert]

Stylistically they are very similar players, with each being the prototype traditional point guard of their era. I just think Paul is better.

[The Master]

1. CP3 has a comfortably higher peak due to higher scoring volume (14y sample of 19 PPG / 28 PTS per 100 possessions vs 10y sample of being 16 PPG / 22 PTS per 100 possessions; 23 PPG / 32 PTS per 100 possessions vs 17 PPG / 23 PTS per 100 possessions in their best seasons).

2. I don't think Stockton has that big advantage in longevity:

- he was a role player until he was 25
- he played on role player minutes since he was 35

10x All-Star, 11x All-NBA

CP3 was a superstar as a 22yo, 11x All-NBA and 12x All-Star, with much higher competition on point guard position. I also believe he was a better player in his twilight years (19-22) than Stockton was in his (97-01) due to higher minutes/volume he played with.

Obviously, then comes a major asterisk for evaluation of CP3 - injuries in the playoffs, but again, we're talking ~800 games played by Stockton in 88-97 period and 750 games played by CP3 in 07-18 period (108 vs 91 in the playoffs). Based on that, I wouldn't say that CP3 has similar longevity, but is this difference actually so big to ignore CP3 being able to bring much more scoring wise (20.7 PPG in the playoffs on sample size of 130 playoff games in 08-21 period) vs Stockton being a 15.6 PPG scorer in the period of 88-97? I doubt it.

Especially considering that as efficient as Stockton was - the major obstacle for these Jazz teams was frequently that there was no one besides Malone who was able to actually score points on decent volume.

ps

Illegal defense rule and the way offenses were played in the 90s actually inflated Stockton's assists numbers vs CP3 nor I believe Stockton and his defense was that significantly more impactful vs CP3s, so that's why I focused on scoring / longevity.

[dhsilv2]

I'm voting CP3 because he was just better at his best. But the injuries in the playoffs make this a tough one for me.

Yup, durability is actually my hang up for taking Paul. Without the durability factor, Paul and Stockton have a similar baseline impact level, but Paul's top level is better and he can give me support as a scorer more often than not. For example, Paul scores 30+ in the playoffs many more times than KG, but if you just asked people, many would think KG, who we do think his scoring was his "weakest" attribute was a better scorer than Paul.

Paul seems to get underrated as a scorer, and definitely so with some of the claims from this thread. That said, durability wise, that's a hard one to oveecome in that Stockton is always available while Paul goes down at many critical times, so that closes the gap from a career standpoint.

To be fair to Kevin half his playoff games came after his 2009 injury. And he basically missed the playoffs in 4 of most guy's 7 best seasons. But none the less Paul is a better iso scorer in the 4th quarter.

[dhsilv2]

You bring up the Magic bad game but Stockton's game 1 he had 7 points on 3-13. After that...
19 points 13 ast
22 pts 12 ast 5 stl
21 pts 13 ast 4 stl
23 pts 24 ast 5 stl
14 pts 17 ast 3 stl
29 pts 20 ast 5 stl

Besides G1 he actually outplayed Magic. Jazz were just not deep enough.

Yeah, so through 6 games, they looked very similar, and both had a rough one. Then both had an excellent game 7, but LA's depth won them the series.

I'll leave you two to fight over it but if you drop the first and last game of the series. Stockton's raw box stats are significantly better. Magic had some crazy turnovers in the series.

[Deathray]

This is one of those impossible questions but in CP3's favor, the way he carried those Hornets teams in the playoffs is something Stockton couldn't do.

As a Nuggets fan I hated Stockton. The guy was a little machine on offense and a very dirty defender.

[Catchall]

Stockton was the more impactful player if you watched each of them play. I might also put Steve Nash and Jason Kidd ahead of Chris Paul, tbh. Chris Paul didn't define and lead his team like these other lead guards, notwithstanding CP's impact in Phoenix.

[Mirotic12]

I'm going with Stockton, because he was a beast on defense.

[bonita_the_frog]

John Stockton cruising to victory 51-36 over Chris Paul.
JS was tougher than nails at both ends!
Also has the best smile, watch him during MJ's HOF speech.
When MJ mentions Russell, JS has the coolest smile EVER.
MJ talks directly to JS during the speech even!