Replace Shai with Luka on the Thunder. What happens?

[falcolombardi]

Luka is a much better playmaker and passer and a better rebounder. OKC gets better and becomes a dynasty.

As opposed to the team looking bound right now for a 70~ win season and a back to back ring?

[Mavrelous]

They get much worse, to put It simply shai is simply a better team leader

Put in Luka for shai offensively: now your offense is a heliocentric offense that doesnt develop new on ball threats, that is a lot more variance based and turnover prone. Sure Luka is a more talented offensive player, but SGA is a lot more consistent

Defensively... Welp. You trade like a near top weak side perimeter defender for a guy with inconsistent effort on defense that doesnt Excel in anything... This thunder defense is based on having no weak links now your got a solid one.

Worse

First i have to say i have no problem with you believing OKC would get worse, fine i respect your opinion but when you say MUCH WORSE? I mean.. let's look at some of the facts.

How are Mavs doing without Luka organizing their offense? 29th best offense in the league.... yeah.

Luka, if you exclude last season, has basically been the best playmaker in the past 5 years. Combined with assists, 2ndary assists, points created from the assists, ShotQuality% and ShotQuality created for team mates.. No one even comes close, not even Jokic. So, you're trying to convince us that OKC would get much worse with a player like that?

On top of it, Luka led team never had problems with his defense, check his playoffs impact on Mavs before saying stuff like that.

So again, to say OKC would be MUCH worse, is simply wrong on so many levels. I actually think OKC shooters would thrive because of all the open looks they would be getting. Look at Lakers for example, Rui is having a career shooting% year so far and him and Luka/AR duo have the best offensive rating in NBA history when playing together.

This is not a very good example though, Luka is a great offensive player, but it's much more than just not having Luka for the Mavs too.

Not really, no, Luka was able to maintain much worse rosters at or over .5, they may be missing Kyrie, but they are much better at every other position, which is exactly the point.

[Loneshot]

Lakers are my squad, but I'm still not sold on Luka. He plays way too slow. I fear his habit of slowing the offense down and chucking up logo 3s is going to cost the Lakers down the line when it matters. Everyone is hyped about him but he's kinda a chucker. There's so many players who if you allow them the same freedom on offense as Luka, they would look just as good.

SGA is not a chucker and far more efficient while putting up big numbers. Luka doesn't make his team better, he simply requires better teammates. SGA elevates his team. Luka is lost without a screener.

[EmpireFalls]

What’s weird is Shai is arguably heliocentric too, his entire offensive diet is drives and pull-ups. And yet he doesn’t feel as heliocentric as Luka because he doesn’t have to dominate pace as Luka does. Lesson in there.

[PistolPeteJR]

Dallas beat OKC 3 times last season, without Doncic, and it was before they got AD.
Having Kyrie is a big deal, because their defense is excellent, so improving their offense with just ONE scorer is enough to beat OKC.

The Bulls and Celtics each beat the Heat 3-1 in the regular season in 2011, I think.


It doesn't mean much.

[maverick_41]

You put Luka on the Thunder and IHart is the Most improved player of the year candidate

Everything else would fall into place. Tons of open looks for everyone else, Luka and J-Dub exchange possessions like he did with Kyrie. Dort and Caruso defend defend the same way the less skilled Mavs defended wings.

[bonita_the_frog]

You just casually miss a lot of info when you say this. OKC played without many important pieces, mainly centers and they were destroyed under rim. And those were just regular season games not even playoffs. OKC would demolish Mavs in playoffs without Luka's playmaking, he literally picked them apart, you even have it on Youtube with analysis.

But OKC are a much better regular season team than playoff team, that's why they struggled with Indiana (who are not a great team) despite Haliburton's injury. And MVP SGA finished the Finals with 8 turnovers in Game 6 and 8-27 in Game 7.

[OriAr]

You just casually miss a lot of info when you say this. OKC played without many important pieces, mainly centers and they were destroyed under rim. And those were just regular season games not even playoffs. OKC would demolish Mavs in playoffs without Luka's playmaking, he literally picked them apart, you even have it on Youtube with analysis.

But OKC are a much better regular season team than playoff team, that's why they struggled with Indiana (who are not a great team) despite Haliburton's injury. And MVP SGA finished the Finals with 8 turnovers in Game 6 and 8-27 in Game 7.

To be fair, J Dub was also injured the entire playoffs (Hence why he's missing games now).
Without J Dub's injury OKC probably takes care of Denver and Indiana in 5

[Archx]

Lakers are my squad, but I'm still not sold on Luka. He plays way too slow. I fear his habit of slowing the offense down and chucking up logo 3s is going to cost the Lakers down the line when it matters. Everyone is hyped about him but he's kinda a chucker. There's so many players who if you allow them the same freedom on offense as Luka, they would look just as good.

SGA is not a chucker and far more efficient while putting up big numbers. Luka doesn't make his team better, he simply requires better teammates. SGA elevates his team. Luka is lost without a screener.

Playoffs slow down a lot, it's a different game, Luka is incredible in the playoffs, what more do you want? If you have a player like him, pace doesn't even matter. Judging from what you said, i know you didn't watch a single Mavericks game in the past.

"There's so many players"... Like who? Only guy come to mind is Jokic. Giannis maybe if you put a gun to my head but he is not even remotely close to both of these guys playmaking. Literally no one else can do what Jokic and Luka do every single game when it comes to offense. I guess you also didn't see what Wemby said when Spurs played the Lakers. And that is coming from a future goat DPOY player.

You just casually miss a lot of info when you say this. OKC played without many important pieces, mainly centers and they were destroyed under rim. And those were just regular season games not even playoffs. OKC would demolish Mavs in playoffs without Luka's playmaking, he literally picked them apart, you even have it on Youtube with analysis.

But OKC are a much better regular season team than playoff team, that's why they struggled with Indiana (who are not a great team) despite Haliburton's injury. And MVP SGA finished the Finals with 8 turnovers in Game 6 and 8-27 in Game 7.

Ok... sure. But i don't know which way you're trying to present your argument here or what your point is? Because you implied that Mavs are a great team without Doncic and i said you need to take those games with a grain of salt because OKC also wasn't a complete team in regular season when Mavs won without him.

[bonita_the_frog]

Ok... sure. But i don't know which way you're trying to present your argument here or what your point is? Because you implied that Mavs are a great team without Doncic and i said you need to take those games with a grain of salt because OKC also wasn't a complete team in regular season when Mavs won without him.

I'm just agreeing that the Mavs offense was a lot more than just Doncic...

Luka is a great offensive player, but it's much more than just not having Luka for the Mavs too.

That's why I referred to Dallas beating OKC 3 times last season without Doncic.

[Anderson Hunt]

Unless you're an athletic center, Doncic is not easy to play with, and he's difficult to build around. To be fair, so was Kobe, Harden, and Iverson.

[hagredionis]

Lakers are my squad, but I'm still not sold on Luka. He plays way too slow. I fear his habit of slowing the offense down and chucking up logo 3s is going to cost the Lakers down the line when it matters. Everyone is hyped about him but he's kinda a chucker. There's so many players who if you allow them the same freedom on offense as Luka, they would look just as good.

SGA is not a chucker and far more efficient while putting up big numbers. Luka doesn't make his team better, he simply requires better teammates. SGA elevates his team. Luka is lost without a screener.

Bro Luka literally went to the conference finals with Powell, Bullock and DFS as his starters. If there is a player in the NBA who makes his team better it's Luka.

[Raps in 4]

They probably still win the title. Both guys are top-5 players and they play the same position, so fit wouldn't be an issue when you swap them.

[Blame Rasho]

Luka is a mofo and having players that actually compliment him would be great. He is a generational player and having a guy like Chet, their plethora of swing and point defenders , and having Williams to off would be unfair to the masses.

[bonita_the_frog]

Lakers are my squad, but I'm still not sold on Luka. He plays way too slow. I fear his habit of slowing the offense down and chucking up logo 3s is going to cost the Lakers down the line when it matters. Everyone is hyped about him but he's kinda a chucker. There's so many players who if you allow them the same freedom on offense as Luka, they would look just as good.

SGA is not a chucker and far more efficient while putting up big numbers. Luka doesn't make his team better, he simply requires better teammates. SGA elevates his team. Luka is lost without a screener.

Bro Luka literally went to the conference finals with Powell, Bullock and DFS as his starters. If there is a player in the NBA who makes his team better it's Luka.

And the Wolves eliminated Doncic's Lakers 4-1, so you need elite defense to win with Doncic, and Dallas were the best defensive team in the NBA in the 2nd half of the season 2023-24.

[MaliBrah]

Dallas beat OKC 3 times last season, without Doncic, and it was before they got AD.
Having Kyrie is a big deal, because their defense is excellent, so improving their offense with just ONE scorer is enough to beat OKC.

OKC didn't have bigs for like 3 of those games , didn't have Shai for 1 of those losses. Dallas didn't have luka for all 3 wins I think? The one time both teams played full strength the Thunder won by a lot. It was a weird matchup in the season that no one should take anything from

[Ritzo]

From best defense to top 15 defense.

[Blame Rasho]

Jeez the takes I am reading above are absolute garbage but then I read some of the other posts they make… and yup… they check out as obtuse posters.

[tamaraw08]

Luka is a much better playmaker and passer and a better rebounder. OKC gets better and becomes a dynasty.

As opposed to the team looking bound right now for a 70~ win season and a back to back ring?

I am probably too amazed at Shai's teammates that I am overrating them.
3-5 solid defenders who can shoot 3's including 1 allstar and 2 reliable bigs and a very smart coach and I think they win 64 wins with Mitchell or current Maxey or even Brunson.

[mpoo_sin]

OKC would be unfair. Killing everything for the next 4 years.

There is a sizeable gap between the best versions of Doncic and Gilgeous-Alexander. If both are at their peak Doncic is way better.