Dennis Lindsey interested in taking Mavs GM job

[cupcakesnake]

Lindsey built a very good team in Utah. He had the great misfortune of trying to build a contender in the West while the Warriors and Rockets existed. The Warriors are the most talented team ever, and Houston might have been an all-time team if not for the Warriors.

Only the Jazz were also eliminated (quite shamefully, I might add) by the Nuggets, Clippers and Mavs.

Lindsey wasn't all bad, he's had some successes and made some decent moves too but overall he was a disappointment, and the Jazz are still paying the price for some of his mistakes, like owing OKC a top 8 protected pick in this coming draft.

The Jazz certainly didn't end up being good enough in the Gobert/Hayward and Gobert/Mitchell eras. They did beat some teams though. Lob City Clippers in 2017, and Russ/PG13 Nuggets in 2018 (both as the lower seed). The 2020 loss to the Nuggets felt embarrassing at the time but...in retrospect, that was the bones of a future champion. Losing to the Clippers after Kawhi went down is pretty regretable, and then losing to a Jalen Brunson led Mavs (Luka missed the first couple games) was the final straw that led to the team being dismantled. (Even then though... we thought Brunson was just some guy, rather than a near future all-NBA monster).

For the record, I'm no big defender of Lindsay. He's honestly not a GM that I've ever focused much on. It's more I think the Utah Jazz of that era were making a super solid run of it overall. You guys weren't building around MVP-level talent. You had Rudy Gobert paired with an all-star perimeter player, and managed to build multiple good teams around that. Plenty of bad moves mixed in there, but compared to other teams, I'd say that front office gets a passing grade.

[Inigo Montoya]

Lindsey built a very good team in Utah. He had the great misfortune of trying to build a contender in the West while the Warriors and Rockets existed. The Warriors are the most talented team ever, and Houston might have been an all-time team if not for the Warriors.

Only the Jazz were also eliminated (quite shamefully, I might add) by the Nuggets, Clippers and Mavs.

Lindsey wasn't all bad, he's had some successes and made some decent moves too but overall he was a disappointment, and the Jazz are still paying the price for some of his mistakes, like owing OKC a top 8 protected pick in this coming draft.

The Jazz certainly didn't end up being good enough in the Gobert/Hayward and Gobert/Mitchell eras. They did beat some teams though. Lob City Clippers in 2017, and Russ/PG13 Nuggets in 2018 (both as the lower seed). The 2020 loss to the Nuggets felt embarrassing at the time but...in retrospect, that was the bones of a future champion. Losing to the Clippers after Kawhi went down is pretty regretable, and then losing to a Jalen Brunson led Mavs (Luka missed the first couple games) was the final straw that led to the team being dismantled. (Even then though... we thought Brunson was just some guy, rather than a near future all-NBA monster).

For the record, I'm no big defender of Lindsay. He's honestly not a GM that I've ever focused much on. It's more I think the Utah Jazz of that era were making a super solid run of it overall. You guys weren't building around MVP-level talent. You had Rudy Gobert paired with an all-star perimeter player, and managed to build multiple good teams around that. Plenty of bad moves mixed in there, but compared to other teams, I'd say that front office gets a passing grade.

I have no issue with saying that front office gets a passing grade. But that's not good enough if you want to build a contender. It wasn't good enough for the Jazz, and it won't be good enough for the Mavs either, only it will take them too long to figure it out and only after the damage is done and time and assets are wasted. They'll be happy to get an upgrade from Nico but in the end you need a front office that gets an excellent\top of the class grade and not only a passing grade if you want to win a championship.

[chrbal]

it's got to be one of the most attractive GM job openings in recent sports history. They just landed a franchise talent in Flagg. They've got two veterans that if healthy would make a "Big Three" with Flagg in Kyrie and Davis OR they can use them to trade for draft picks and young players that would fit Flagg's timeline better. They also have some pretty decent younger role player. In a state with no tax btw. I'm sure almost every G.M. secretly wishes to have this job. Certainly any that don't currently have a job do. I'm surprised Myers hasn't raised his hand. After all, he loves taking credit for other people's work and riding coattails.

Oh yeah, and the last GM is so unbelievably despised you'll even get extra runway just for not being him while entering a situation that doesn't even have high expectations right now and stuff that should still have trade value for future assets. Great starting spot for a GM who wants in at the start of a rebuild that might already have their baby franchise player with another chance to really load up in the next drafts if managed right

The first question they’ll ask interviewees will be “do you plan on giving away franchise players?”

[cupcakesnake]

Only the Jazz were also eliminated (quite shamefully, I might add) by the Nuggets, Clippers and Mavs.

Lindsey wasn't all bad, he's had some successes and made some decent moves too but overall he was a disappointment, and the Jazz are still paying the price for some of his mistakes, like owing OKC a top 8 protected pick in this coming draft.

The Jazz certainly didn't end up being good enough in the Gobert/Hayward and Gobert/Mitchell eras. They did beat some teams though. Lob City Clippers in 2017, and Russ/PG13 Nuggets in 2018 (both as the lower seed). The 2020 loss to the Nuggets felt embarrassing at the time but...in retrospect, that was the bones of a future champion. Losing to the Clippers after Kawhi went down is pretty regretable, and then losing to a Jalen Brunson led Mavs (Luka missed the first couple games) was the final straw that led to the team being dismantled. (Even then though... we thought Brunson was just some guy, rather than a near future all-NBA monster).

For the record, I'm no big defender of Lindsay. He's honestly not a GM that I've ever focused much on. It's more I think the Utah Jazz of that era were making a super solid run of it overall. You guys weren't building around MVP-level talent. You had Rudy Gobert paired with an all-star perimeter player, and managed to build multiple good teams around that. Plenty of bad moves mixed in there, but compared to other teams, I'd say that front office gets a passing grade.

I have no issue with saying that front office gets a passing grade. But that's not good enough if you want to build a contender. It wasn't good enough for the Jazz, and it won't be good enough for the Mavs either, only it will take them too long to figure it out and only after the damage is done and time and assets are wasted. They'll be happy to get an upgrade from Nico but in the end you need a front office that gets an excellent\top of the class grade and not only a passing grade if you want to win a championship.

Hmmm, I'm not sure I agree, or feel confident about that assertion.
The one thing I feel front offices have the least amount of control over is their high end talent. You need some level of luck or opportunity to end up with a top 5 player (and another top 20 guy) that gives you a big advantage in terms of building a championship team. It wasn't brilliant GMing that got the Warriors Steph Curry at #7 or the Nuggets Jokic at #41, or the LA teams having Lebron/AD/Kawhi forcefully pursue that LA lifestyle.

GMs can only build around the high end talent that they have. Sometimes you get Lebron James or Shaq as your high end talent. Sometimes you get Gordon Hayward and Rudy Gobert. I tend to judge a front office by how they build around that. So to me, it's more impressive that Utah built a pseudo-contender around a pretty blah core. Indiana always impresses me in this way too. It feels like they always find a way to build a proper team despite never having a huge talent advantage.

There's things teams try to do to increase their chances at nabbing a high end talent. Tanking and pick hoarding, but there's still a luck factor. Teams almost never swap stars, so it's not like: if you don't like your stars, trade for different ones! It's more: build around your best talent, or tear it down and try again. Teams who are constantly tearing down are a pain to root for, and teams that build poorly all the time are even worse.

[dirkdiggler4177]

One and the same. I'll look over his history so I know the timeline.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/executives/lindsde99x.html

I don't see a trade where he gave up 5 FRPs. The closest thing to that I see is the Mike Conley trade. Utah traded Grayson Allen and Darius Bazley (who were Utah 1st round picks in previous drafts), Jae Crowder, 37 year old Kyle Korver, and a protected first round pick for Mike Conley. Hilariously that protected pick they traded to Memphis for Conley ended up finally conveying in 2022, Memphis traded that pick to Minnesota on draft night for Jake LaRavia, and Minnesota traded that pick back to Utah two weeks later in the Rudy Gobert trade. That pick was Walker Kessler.

In 2016 they traded their FRP (or the rights to the player) for 1 year of George Hill. In 2017 they traded their FRP for 2 years of Ricky Rubio. In 2019 they traded their FRP, Grayson Allen (2018's FRP), and a future FRP for 3 years (well 3.5 but Gobert/Mitchell were gone after 3) of Mike Conley. So that is 5 FRP including players and future picks all traded within 4 years to rent point gaurds. Granted, none of the player taken with those picks amounted to much, but he still shouldn't have burned through those picks the way he did on what was clearly player rentals.

Ah, I see. I thought you were only talking about one trade by the wording. Thanks for making it clear.

So basically the story on Lindsey is he landed on the treadmill Jazz and hit big on a couple of double digit picks. They thought they could contend with Gobert and Mitchell but when they went all in with picks to try to find the move that would put them over the top but they just couldn't quite make the right move to put them over the top. They fired Lindsey and Ainge got a massive haul for Gobert to rebuild and basically Lauri for Mitchell and that's still pretty much where the Jazz are now.

The Mavs want Lindsey because he was the actual progenitor of the moves Nico gets too much credit for to create that Mavs Finals team from the bad situation Nico put them in the first place with his horrible KP trade that brought them nothing, such as wanting PJ Washington for Grant Williams when Nico wanted Kyle Kuzma and Lindsey was against adding Grant in the first place. His stock is even higher now because of the turnaround in Detroit.

Maybe not the best GM, but still an enormous upgrade from Nico

What do you mean by the horrible KP trade?

Also, Kuzma was the one to cancel the trade by saying he did not want to go to Dallas (he would get paid more in DC). It was not Lindsey who was convincing Nico not to trade for Kuzma. By the way, PJ was not an unknown player for Nico. He had known him and his family since high school. I think Nico ate dinner with them.

[MrGoat]

What do you mean by the horrible KP trade?

Also, Kuzma was the one to cancel the trade by saying he did not want to go to Dallas (he would get paid more in DC). It was not Lindsey who was convincing Nico not to trade for Kuzma. By the way, PJ was not an unknown player for Nico. He had known him and his family since high school. I think Nico ate dinner with them.

They traded KP and a second round pick to the Wizards for two players together who made even more long term salary than KP and neither one of them are even in the league anymore. It wasn't even a salary dump because they took on extra bad salary. Dallas still made the WCF because Brunson made a leap and Devin Booker was foolish enough to trash talk Luka so Mavs fans tried to defend that lousy trade because Dinwiddie had a hot shooting stretch that season. Though KP ended up being a piece on the team that later stopped Dallas from winning the Finals. Horrible deal, if he couldn't find something better or even just less bad than that at the deadline he should have waited until the offseason to try to unload KP

Lindsey was opposed to going after Kuzma in the first place, and got overruled because he was only the assistant and then Kuzma turned them down. He was also opposed to the Grant Williams signing and got overruled again because Nico was the boss

[Sane]

Denis Lindsey was a star exec before and after Utah. On the rockets we fought many teams from stealing him after we groomed him. Well respected, extremely high IQ, gets basketball and numbers too. He will work well for a contender. Maybe not great for tanking teams.

[boomershadow]

I heard Cuban is pushing for this.

[The Laker Kid]

Mavs need to search his phone and check for Rob Pelinka messages

[Johnny Bball]

I would volunteer to tackle the job at like half the salary of Nico. And would do a better job for the Mavericks fanbase. Make Dallas great again.

I doubt you would have the patience for it. By you I mean more like anyone here. Nothing personal.

[dirkdiggler4177]

What do you mean by the horrible KP trade?

Also, Kuzma was the one to cancel the trade by saying he did not want to go to Dallas (he would get paid more in DC). It was not Lindsey who was convincing Nico not to trade for Kuzma. By the way, PJ was not an unknown player for Nico. He had known him and his family since high school. I think Nico ate dinner with them.

They traded KP and a second round pick to the Wizards for two players together who made even more long term salary than KP and neither one of them are even in the league anymore. It wasn't even a salary dump because they took on extra bad salary. Dallas still made the WCF because Brunson made a leap and Devin Booker was foolish enough to trash talk Luka so Mavs fans tried to defend that lousy trade because Dinwiddie had a hot shooting stretch that season. Though KP ended up being a piece on the team that later stopped Dallas from winning the Finals. Horrible deal, if he couldn't find something better or even just less bad than that at the deadline he should have waited until the offseason to try to unload KP

Lindsey was opposed to going after Kuzma in the first place, and got overruled because he was only the assistant and then Kuzma turned them down. He was also opposed to the Grant Williams signing and got overruled again because Nico was the boss

Does it matter if they are in the league anymore? Why is that a point?

I think you and I have very different experiences with KP. I will just give you my view. I don't need you to respond to it, because I think we have just very different views of the situation. Overall, his play with the Mavs was probably the worst basketball he produced. He was always injured and could not be efficient with Luka. Spencer, on the other hand, worked really well with Luka. He brought energy and playmaking. He was also part of the Kyrie trade. Without the Kyrie, the Mavs do not make the finals. KP played 7 games during the playoffs that year, averaging 12 points.

Could you post a news article or some source that Lindsey was opposed to Kuzma in the first place? Also, the same for Grant Williams, that Lindsey was against signing him? I could not find it.

[ConSarnit]

I heard Cuban is pushing for this.

Heard this too. Isn’t Riccardi supposed to be Kidd’s guy too? Seems like palace intrigue to try and gain control of the franchise between Cuban and Kidd.