Horace Grant deserves way more credit

[TheGOATRises007]

For sure. Just like Jerry Krause deserves way more credit for finding these guys. I love MJ but he still petty AF with that. Imagine if Karuse had listened to MJ..... they would have had Joe Wolf instead of Horace

If Krause had his way, he would have fired Phil and traded Pippen.

He deserves credit for finding the guys, but he wasn't flawless and he was awful towards the later end of his career.

[bkkrh]

those glasses were so dope. there used to be a lot more personality in the league back then.

Yeah, absolutely. I posted that a while ago in another thread. I came as a European kid from Wrestling to Basketball and literally every player had some cool nickname or kind of a trademark move or some cool gimmick. It almost felt like a team sport version of WWF Wrestling. Watch out, here come the Hornets with little Muggsy Bogues, mean Zo Mourning and Hulk like Grandmama with the cool gold tooth. Mase and Oak looking and acting like the meanest heel tag team of all time. Pretty much what ever type of team or player you wanted to root for, you had an option.

[bovice]

those glasses were so dope. there used to be a lot more personality in the league back then.

Yeah, absolutely. I posted that a while ago in another thread. I came as a European kid from Wrestling to Basketball and literally every player had some cool nickname or kind of a trademark move or some cool gimmick. It almost felt like a team sport version of WWF Wrestling. Watch out, here come the Hornets with little Muggsy Bogues, mean Zo Mourning and Hulk like Grandmama with the cool gold tooth. Mase and Oak looking and acting like the meanest heel tag team of all time. Pretty much what ever type of team or player you wanted to root for, you had an option.

yeah i was wanting to make a thread about this but i got lazy. there's a story telling aspect to sports entertainment that is lost in today's game. there's too many good/decent players that everyones kind of a blur. like who the hell is this ajay mitchell guy that's averaging 16-17 ppg for an 18-1 OKC team. even the 'stars', nobody really knows anything about them. what's devin booker and jason tatum like? theyre bland personalities that are kinda forgettable.

[Luke]

Horace Grant deserves way more credit than he gets

Led League in Offensive Rating in 1991-92
10th All-Time in career Playoffs for Offensive Rating
4x All Defensive Team
Helped 1993-94 Chicago Bulls win 55 games and to Playoffs when Michael Jordan left
Helped Orlando Magic to 1994-95 Finals in his first season with the team

I know every time most hear about those first 3-peat Chicago Bulls you always hear Jordan/Pippen but rarely Horace Grant name mentioned, he rarely gets any credit for how much better he could make a team. Jordan fans hardly talk about him.

Could giving Horace Grant more credit just show how much more help Michael Jordan actually had other than just Scottie Pippen and the reason they rarely mention him?

Even Anderson Varejao, Z. Ilgauskas, Mo Williams, Larry Hughes and others are criminally underrated , and some people talk like if Lebron played with G-Leaguers his first years in the league. He had a very good team, instead...

By the way, Horace Grant is a great role player, but still a role player...

[bkkrh]

those glasses were so dope. there used to be a lot more personality in the league back then.

Yeah, absolutely. I posted that a while ago in another thread. I came as a European kid from Wrestling to Basketball and literally every player had some cool nickname or kind of a trademark move or some cool gimmick. It almost felt like a team sport version of WWF Wrestling. Watch out, here come the Hornets with little Muggsy Bogues, mean Zo Mourning and Hulk like Grandmama with the cool gold tooth. Mase and Oak looking and acting like the meanest heel tag team of all time. Pretty much what ever type of team or player you wanted to root for, you had an option.

yeah i was wanting to make a thread about this but i got lazy. there's a story telling aspect to sports entertainment that is lost in today's game. there's too many good/decent players that everyones kind of a blur. like who the hell is this ajay mitchell guy that's averaging 16-17 ppg for an 18-1 OKC team. even the 'stars', nobody really knows anything about them. what's devin booker and jason tatum like? theyre bland personalities that are kinda forgettable.

In a way there was a certain mystique since players had no social media. So they could really just stand out on the court and the chances they got on TV or magazine interviews that also weren´t on endless repeat. Also 90s NBA media wasn´t constantly bashing the product but actually hyping players up.

Instead of seeing the same BS by 50 different TV personalities, Podcasters and so on talking about the exact same stuff. You had a few high value productions that made players look like superheroes. Like this summary of the Bulls - Knicks series in 92. It´s not about "that player chocked", the narrative is about 2 teams going to war with each other and MJ turning on god mode in the end.

Watch on YouTube

Then Stern pretty much killed it in the late 90s when they started to implemented more and more rules against trash talking, setting up a dress code and so on.

I mean stuff like Barkley talking about punching Oakley in the head in the last game and going to punch him in the head again this game if the tries to cheapshot him being kind of the intro narrative for a game broadcast would probably get a few people fired today .

[Common Sensei]

Grant was nice.

Let's be honest here, most of the guys that played with Jordan deserve way more credit than they have gotten.

The media has intentionally discredited all of Jordan's teammates.

And before someone accuses me of being a Jordan hater, and/or a LeBron stan, let me just preemptively say that I think Jordan was clearly better than LeBron.

It's just what happens over time outside of the top players. Hell, I barely hear about James Worthy anymore and he's deservedly in the HOF.

James Worthy was an even better player come Playoffs, one of the few players whose FG%, TS%, PPG plus efficiency all went up in the Playoffs. He even got a Finals MVP.He deserves more credit too, but at least he got in the Hall of Fame though.

[LockoutSeason]

Horace was more important to the first 3-peat Bulls than Rodman was to the second 3-peat. Rodman was unplayable in the ‘97 Finals and ‘98 ECF. He was getting benched for Kukoc in the playoffs.

[bovice]

Yeah, absolutely. I posted that a while ago in another thread. I came as a European kid from Wrestling to Basketball and literally every player had some cool nickname or kind of a trademark move or some cool gimmick. It almost felt like a team sport version of WWF Wrestling. Watch out, here come the Hornets with little Muggsy Bogues, mean Zo Mourning and Hulk like Grandmama with the cool gold tooth. Mase and Oak looking and acting like the meanest heel tag team of all time. Pretty much what ever type of team or player you wanted to root for, you had an option.

yeah i was wanting to make a thread about this but i got lazy. there's a story telling aspect to sports entertainment that is lost in today's game. there's too many good/decent players that everyones kind of a blur. like who the hell is this ajay mitchell guy that's averaging 16-17 ppg for an 18-1 OKC team. even the 'stars', nobody really knows anything about them. what's devin booker and jason tatum like? theyre bland personalities that are kinda forgettable.

In a way there was a certain mystique since players had no social media. So they could really just stand out on the court and the chances they got on TV or magazine interviews that also weren´t on endless repeat. Also 90s NBA media wasn´t constantly bashing the product but actually hyping players up.

Instead of seeing the same BS on endless repeat and having 50 different TV personalities, Podcaster and so on talk about the same stuff. You had a few high value productions that made players look like superheroes. Like that summary of the Bulls - Knicks series in 92. It´s not about "that player chocked", the narrative is about 2 teams going to war with each other and MJ turning on god mode in the end.

[youtube]4wLW2UwkcG4[./youtube]

Then Stern pretty much killed it in the late 90s when they started to implemented more and more rules against trash talking, setting up a dress code and so on.

I mean stuff like Barkley talking about punching Oakley in the head in the last game and going to punch him in the head again this game if the tries to cheapshot him being kind of the intro narrative for the game broadcast would probably get a few people fired today .

that's a good point. i think the amount of money and commercialization forces players to tidy up their act too. i think all major sports have become over-commercialized to the point where the product has lost personality. the story of the WWE is a great comparison of where the NBA is now. in the 90s wrestling was at it's peak. the rock vs stone cold, d-generation x, the TLC matches....technically the wrestling was sound but they were no where near as athletic as they are now. but now the wwe can't build the stories like they could back then and the product suffers despite the wrestlers being able to be extraordinarily acrobatic and versatile.

[MavsDirk41]

Horace was more important to the first 3-peat Bulls than Rodman was to the second 3-peat. Rodman was unplayable in the ‘97 Finals and ‘98 ECF. He was getting benched for Kukoc in the playoffs.

Yea you nailed this one. Bulls dont 3 peat without Rodman but Horace Grant had more of an impact with the Bulls first 3 peat than Rodman ever had and he was a great teammate from everything i remember. Went to Orlando as the 3rd wheel to Shaq and Penny and was phenomenal for them as well. I think Grant was the type of player who could fit on any team unlike Rodman. Grant was also a more versatile player in that he wasnt a negative on the offensive end of the court. He wasnt a star but he was very much a glue guy who played his part perfectly.

[Lalouie]

Is he the father of all those Grants in the league right now?

Uncle. Horace’s twin brother Harvey is the father. Harvey was also a Blazer like Jerami.

quite a family on sheer numbers alone

i wonder if the elder married an athlete

[DirtybirdGA]

NBA Jams, it's fantastic.

[KGtabake]

All i know is that the Grants are a great basketball family.

[NCHeels2008]

He was quite good, yes. For both Chicago and Orlando. Losing him made a huge difference in 95 to the Bulls, and was a big part of why they lost to Orlando.

feels like that 96 Bulls-Magic series did so much to damage his reputation, somewhat unfairly

[Homer38]

He was quite good, yes. For both Chicago and Orlando. Losing him made a huge difference in 95 to the Bulls, and was a big part of why they lost to Orlando.

feels like that 96 Bulls-Magic series did so much to damage his reputation, somewhat unfairly

Grant was injured in game 1 and was out for the rest of the series

[NCHeels2008]

He was quite good, yes. For both Chicago and Orlando. Losing him made a huge difference in 95 to the Bulls, and was a big part of why they lost to Orlando.

feels like that 96 Bulls-Magic series did so much to damage his reputation, somewhat unfairly

Grant was injured in game 1 and was out for the rest of the series

my bad I was remembering just game 1 where he played 28 mins and put up a 0 pt 1 rebound statline while Rodman had 13 pts and 21 boards

[ScrantonBulls]

100% OP. A weird thing that happens with Horace and Scottie is that MJ fans feel the need to tear them down because they believe it makes MJ legacy "better". Their thought is that of they diminish how good those players are, it just means MJ did THAT much more and is THAT much better. It's really a shame and unnecessary.

Those Bulls teams were just unfair. You had easily the best #1 and #2 options in the league, and arguably Horace was a better #3 option than anybody on the league. That elite defense while being able to get 15 and 11. Along with the elite depth. Those teams were STACKED.

[tsherkin]

Along with the elite depth. Those teams were STACKED.

You don't author a dynasty, no matter how good your focal star, without dominant talent. It is simply a reality of the sport. People like to build MJ up to mythical, non-sensical levels, but that's the truth of it. The team improved around him to a HUGE degree, and he bought into Phil's system (although still chased scoring titles and dominant volume). The D was incredible all around and they didn't really have a weakness... and did have one of the most organized, effective offenses of their era.

EDIT: Obviously, MJ was still incredible and I don't mean to diminish that, but you don't three-peat without dominant talent. It's why only Boston, Chicago and LA have managed it in league history.

[LakersLegacy]

Horace Grant deserves way more credit than he gets

Led League in Offensive Rating in 1991-92
10th All-Time in career Playoffs for Offensive Rating
4x All Defensive Team
Helped 1993-94 Chicago Bulls win 55 games and to Playoffs when Michael Jordan left
Helped Orlando Magic to 1994-95 Finals in his first season with the team

I know every time most hear about those first 3-peat Chicago Bulls you always hear Jordan/Pippen but rarely Horace Grant name mentioned, he rarely gets any credit for how much better he could make a team. Jordan fans hardly talk about him.

Could giving Horace Grant more credit just show how much more help Michael Jordan actually had other than just Scottie Pippen and the reason they rarely mention him?

Won with Kobe and Shaq as well

[Calvin Klein]

Sure he does.

[jokeboy86]

For sure. Just like Jerry Krause deserves way more credit for finding these guys. I love MJ but he still petty AF with that. Imagine if Karuse had listened to MJ..... they would have had Joe Wolf instead of Horace

I loved Jordan and he's still probably my favorite NBA player of all time but the fact that so many people in the media who covered him in the 80s and 90s have basically made him unassailable has become nauseating. And I also have a problem that since he's so deified the same people in the media basically act like his tenure as Bobcats/Hornets owner never happened when if it was any other high profile owner they would say he's one of the worst owners of all time. Jordan, Falk(his old agent), and Portnoy(his rep) have done a spectacular job basically putting the fear in anybody who dares talk bad about Jordan.