Will Americans win MVP in near future? Last 8 MVPs have been Non-Americans

[tamaraw08]

The disrespect on my boy Jason Tatum continues. smh.
26pts,6 rebs and 7.5 assists. If he's shooting 40% from 3 instead of 30%, he would be next to Doncic for that scoring title. Don't you agree Doogie Hauser?
Flagg has been great but his team needs to win 50 games to be considered.
Maxey is also being overlooked.

[Ito]

Luka prolly won MVP this yr already unless sum drastic turnaround happen

Nah. Wemby is gonna be 1'st seed in the West and DPOY by light years.

He is already leading in all advanced metrics and stats in impact and efficiency.

I prefer Wemby too as a player but the guy averaging 40+ and the Lakers are first in the west right now

Another example is Curry but those are meaningless stats Warriors wouldn’t come out the first round .. neither would the Lakers.. but it’s a season award .. you go with the guy averaging 40+ and leading the standings

[Duke4life831]

This thread made me look at the league leaders board. It's kind of crazy how few Americans make it to the top of even a meaningful individual category.

Maybe it's time for the NBA to do like the NHL did in hockey and put a ton of money in US development and break the AAU model. That model clearly needs some reforming.

3 of the last 4 MVPs have come via the US development and AAU model. Embiid first started playing basketball at 15, moved to the US at 16 to focus on basketball.

SGA moved to the US his junior year of high school for the purpose of focusing on basketball and improving his skills.

[dhsilv2]

This thread made me look at the league leaders board. It's kind of crazy how few Americans make it to the top of even a meaningful individual category.

Maybe it's time for the NBA to do like the NHL did in hockey and put a ton of money in US development and break the AAU model. That model clearly needs some reforming.

Americans still develop most top end talent, and its not even close. It is funny how now NBA leaders are non American, were in most European leagues, including Euroleague, most of the leaders are usually American.

Also, with game getting more popular, you can not expect one country to just beat the rest of the world, even if the country is USA. I would say they still beat the rest of the world and as I said, I think the fact top 5 players being all non American is an outlier, but I mean Basketball is getting popular, it is a sport that does not require a high price of entry, hoop is the hardest part to come by, and when you look at demographics, Euros are taller on average, Africans are probably more athletic on average, for what it is, USA still doing great, I wish my country could develop players like USA does, and my country is pretty good at Basketball.

I think what we're seeing though is that American talent is being developed with limitations in their games that the top-end foreign players don't have. Maybe it's more coaching and less games as a youth in Europe (I've heard that theory). Maybe it's the club development approach--not sure. But we see players coming out of Europe (and even Canada) that seem more multidimensional, and better in the team game.

Maybe it's just an anomaly and the American players are just having a bit of a slump.

And I'm not upset or concerned about Americans versus the rest of the world, or the US keeping a lead. I'm concerned about the quality of the game, and the game is better with more top end talent. The fact the US talent seems to have regressed somewhat in recent years, given the significant US population size, suggests that there's room for improvement.

SGA finished his high school basketball career in Tennessee and then played at Kentucky. Giannis wasn't a more well rounded player. He's a genetic freak. Jokic is a 7'0, hyper strong big man who has godly hands and an IQ off the charts. Luka is a basketball savant who was getting pro level MVP's at 16. Wemby is 7'6 or something insane like that.

There's no lacking of development that can reasonably be seen here. The US population is small compared to that of the rest of the world. We should have less and less of the top 10 talented guys due to our lack of population size.

edit - forgot Embiid who also moved to the US at 16 and started playing at 15. He's 100% a product of the US development system as well.

[UcanUwill]

This thread made me look at the league leaders board. It's kind of crazy how few Americans make it to the top of even a meaningful individual category.

Maybe it's time for the NBA to do like the NHL did in hockey and put a ton of money in US development and break the AAU model. That model clearly needs some reforming.

Americans still develop most top end talent, and its not even close. It is funny how now NBA leaders are non American, were in most European leagues, including Euroleague, most of the leaders are usually American.

Also, with game getting more popular, you can not expect one country to just beat the rest of the world, even if the country is USA. I would say they still beat the rest of the world and as I said, I think the fact top 5 players being all non American is an outlier, but I mean Basketball is getting popular, it is a sport that does not require a high price of entry, hoop is the hardest part to come by, and when you look at demographics, Euros are taller on average, Africans are probably more athletic on average, for what it is, USA still doing great, I wish my country could develop players like USA does, and my country is pretty good at Basketball.

I think what we're seeing though is that American talent is being developed with limitations in their games that the top-end foreign players don't have. Maybe it's more coaching and less games as a youth in Europe (I've heard that theory). Maybe it's the club development approach--not sure. But we see players coming out of Europe (and even Canada) that seem more multidimensional, and better in the team game.

Maybe it's just an anomaly and the American players are just having a bit of a slump.

And I'm not upset or concerned about Americans versus the rest of the world, or the US keeping a lead. I'm concerned about the quality of the game, and the game is better with more top end talent. The fact the US talent seems to have regressed somewhat in recent years, given the significant US population size, suggests that there's room for improvement.

Yeah, I get that most Americans here are not concerned that some of the best players are not American.

When it comes to bigmen, I would probably agree that Euros seem to develop more versatile bigs and this was the case for a while,but when it comes to guards and wings, I think Americans are still best developers and its not really even close, you always had superstar players, I think this is just a random patch in time where there is no clear MVP caliber American wing or forward. The fact best guard is Slovenian out of Spain I think is just random and not really a trend. A lot of Euro guards can't even dribble well, there is a reason why these Euro national teams always naturalize American guards.

[tsherkin]

The disrespect on my boy Jason Tatum continues. smh.

For what?

There's been no season where he was a valid inclusion as a legitimate threat to win the MVP.

Maxey is also being overlooked.

Also no. He's in his physical prime, he's a small guard who isn't Steph, and who primarily brings scoring... and isn't close to the best scorer in the league. Especially when he's asked to be a focal option in major volume. He's not even on the radar. He needs to make an All-NBA 2nd Team before that discussion even begins, let alone actually getting an MVP vote from anyone. We have a pretty strong idea of who he is.

[dhsilv2]

Americans still develop most top end talent, and its not even close. It is funny how now NBA leaders are non American, were in most European leagues, including Euroleague, most of the leaders are usually American.

Also, with game getting more popular, you can not expect one country to just beat the rest of the world, even if the country is USA. I would say they still beat the rest of the world and as I said, I think the fact top 5 players being all non American is an outlier, but I mean Basketball is getting popular, it is a sport that does not require a high price of entry, hoop is the hardest part to come by, and when you look at demographics, Euros are taller on average, Africans are probably more athletic on average, for what it is, USA still doing great, I wish my country could develop players like USA does, and my country is pretty good at Basketball.

I think what we're seeing though is that American talent is being developed with limitations in their games that the top-end foreign players don't have. Maybe it's more coaching and less games as a youth in Europe (I've heard that theory). Maybe it's the club development approach--not sure. But we see players coming out of Europe (and even Canada) that seem more multidimensional, and better in the team game.

Maybe it's just an anomaly and the American players are just having a bit of a slump.

And I'm not upset or concerned about Americans versus the rest of the world, or the US keeping a lead. I'm concerned about the quality of the game, and the game is better with more top end talent. The fact the US talent seems to have regressed somewhat in recent years, given the significant US population size, suggests that there's room for improvement.

Yeah, I get that most Americans here are not concerned that some of the best players are not American.

When it comes to bigmen, I would probably agree that Euros seem to develop more versatile bigs and this was the case for a while,but when it comes to guards and wings, I think Americans are still best developers and its not really even close, you always had superstar players, I think this is just a random patch in time where there is no clear MVP caliber American wing or forward. The fact best guard is Slovenian out of Spain I think is just random and not really a trend. A lot of Euro guards can't even dribble well, there is a reason why these Euro national teams always naturalize American guards.

Seems to be some truth to that, but it could just be there are more tall guys in europe or at least the tall population is better represented in the nba? Embiid is a US product. A really skilled big men. KAT is maybe the best shooting big man. I'll grant you however it seems we have produced less skilled passers but it's not like there are a lot of Jokic's anywhere either.

Still, given how small the population of 6'10 men is in the world. It's hard to figure out what's development vs to natural.

[tamaraw08]

The disrespect on my boy Jason Tatum continues. smh.

For what?

There's been no season where he was a valid inclusion as a legitimate threat to win the MVP.

Maxey is also being overlooked.

Also no. He's in his physical prime, he's a small guard who isn't Steph, and who primarily brings scoring... and isn't close to the best scorer in the league. Especially when he's asked to be a focal option in major volume. He's not even on the radar. He needs to make an All-NBA 2nd Team before that discussion even begins, let alone actually getting an MVP vote from anyone. We have a pretty strong idea of who he is.

I should have used the green font regarding Tatum. I am a Lakers fan who hates every Celtic player but yes, I do respect guys who finds a way to help their team win esp after losing great teammates.
I love Maxey though. He's not among the best scorers because 3 of his teammates are taking away about 10 attempts from him every game, esp the freaking Joel Embiid. But yes, I do get your point.

[UcanUwill]

I think what we're seeing though is that American talent is being developed with limitations in their games that the top-end foreign players don't have. Maybe it's more coaching and less games as a youth in Europe (I've heard that theory). Maybe it's the club development approach--not sure. But we see players coming out of Europe (and even Canada) that seem more multidimensional, and better in the team game.

Maybe it's just an anomaly and the American players are just having a bit of a slump.

And I'm not upset or concerned about Americans versus the rest of the world, or the US keeping a lead. I'm concerned about the quality of the game, and the game is better with more top end talent. The fact the US talent seems to have regressed somewhat in recent years, given the significant US population size, suggests that there's room for improvement.

Yeah, I get that most Americans here are not concerned that some of the best players are not American.

When it comes to bigmen, I would probably agree that Euros seem to develop more versatile bigs and this was the case for a while,but when it comes to guards and wings, I think Americans are still best developers and its not really even close, you always had superstar players, I think this is just a random patch in time where there is no clear MVP caliber American wing or forward. The fact best guard is Slovenian out of Spain I think is just random and not really a trend. A lot of Euro guards can't even dribble well, there is a reason why these Euro national teams always naturalize American guards.

Seems to be some truth to that, but it could just be there are more tall guys in europe or at least the tall population is better represented in the nba? Embiid is a US product. A really skilled big men. KAT is maybe the best shooting big man. I'll grant you however it seems we have produced less skilled passers but it's not like there are a lot of Jokic's anywhere either.

Still, given how small the population of 6'10 men is in the world. It's hard to figure out what's development vs to natural.

Euro centers were shooting 3s and passing the ball for decades tho, they do cross position training more than Americans it seems. From what I have heard, being bigmen kid in AAU system can really suck, because they play the game through guards, while bigs are left to do the dirty work, and its probably why AMerican guards are so good, but most bigs are usually garbage bucket getters. Obviously Americans had all time great centers, but most of them were there because they were super athletes. And you can see starting with junior team that they put all the focus on run and jump athleticism, it is kinda hard to imagine Jokic coming out from American school. For a long time, Brad Miller was kinda the only American center who could pass and shoot and felt very Euroish, where overseas there were a lot of centers who did just that.

[Curmudgeon]

Tatum will never win. He's a fundamentally sound player but just not flashy enough.

[dhsilv2]

Yeah, I get that most Americans here are not concerned that some of the best players are not American.

When it comes to bigmen, I would probably agree that Euros seem to develop more versatile bigs and this was the case for a while,but when it comes to guards and wings, I think Americans are still best developers and its not really even close, you always had superstar players, I think this is just a random patch in time where there is no clear MVP caliber American wing or forward. The fact best guard is Slovenian out of Spain I think is just random and not really a trend. A lot of Euro guards can't even dribble well, there is a reason why these Euro national teams always naturalize American guards.

Seems to be some truth to that, but it could just be there are more tall guys in europe or at least the tall population is better represented in the nba? Embiid is a US product. A really skilled big men. KAT is maybe the best shooting big man. I'll grant you however it seems we have produced less skilled passers but it's not like there are a lot of Jokic's anywhere either.

Still, given how small the population of 6'10 men is in the world. It's hard to figure out what's development vs to natural.

Euro centers were shooting 3s and passing the ball for decades tho, they do cross position training more than Americans it seems. From what I have heard, being bigmen kid can be in AAU system can really suck, because they play the game through guards, while bigs are left to do the dirty work, and its probably why AMerican guards are so good, but most bigs are usually garbage bucket getters. Obviously Americans had all time great centers, but most of them were there because they were super athletes. And you can see starting with junior team that they put all the focus on run and jump athleticism, it is kinda hard to imagine Jokic coming out from American school. For a long time, Brad Miller was kinda the only American center who could pass and shoot and felt very Euroish, where overseas there were a lot of centers who did just that.

Well you can't compare say the 90's to the AAU system today. I'm sure there's flaws in the development out there. But a lot of it just comes down to small samples. There just aren't a lot of big guys. And a lot of big guys in their teens just aren't athletic yet. Coordination takes time when you're that tall.

[tsherkin]

I should have used the green font regarding Tatum. I am a Lakers fan who hates every Celtic player

Ah. That one sailed right over my head, my bad.

but yes, I do respect guys who finds a way to help their team win esp after losing great teammates.

Tatum is definitely good. He's been shooting quite poorly to start the season, but he does need some grace, given the injuries and all that. He has a nice, diverse game. Heavily over-reliant upon 3s, but that's hardly unique to him.

Basically his only sin is that he ISN'T an MVP-level player. If you take that expectation off of him, he's fine.

I love Maxey though. He's not among the best scorers because 3 of his teammates are taking away about 10 attempts from him every game, esp the freaking Joel Embiid. But yes, I do get your point.

Yeah, the attempts aren't it. When he had the shot, he couldn't maintain the efficiency. He's far better in a role where he's well-supported by other creators and doesn't have to take 20+ FGA/g.

He is, of course, still also awesome to have on your team. He's quite a good shooter, and when he's able to work off of others instead of doing everything himself, he gets pretty efficient in a hurry. Philly's lucky to have him.

[dhsilv2]

Tatum will never win. He's a fundamentally sound player but just not flashy enough.

I wouldn't consider Jokic, Embiid or SGA flashy really. They're just all better than Tatum. And that's the issue. Tatum is a top 10 player, he's not at the MVP level and that isn't about being flashy. It's about the stats.

[UcanUwill]

Tatum will never win. He's a fundamentally sound player but just not flashy enough.

I wouldn't consider Jokic, Embiid or SGA flashy really. They're just all better than Tatum. And that's the issue. Tatum is a top 10 player, he's not at the MVP level and that isn't about being flashy. It's about the stats.

I think Jokic and SGA are flashy. People complain about SGA's foul baiting, but he has biggest bag in the game, and Jokic is not a highflyer or shotblocker, but he is one of the most entertaining passers of all time, I love watching their highlights. But I would agree that Tatum's problem that he is just not MVP caliber player, not that hes not flashy. Was KD ever really flashy, he was really good tho and was MVP.

[dhsilv2]

Tatum will never win. He's a fundamentally sound player but just not flashy enough.

I wouldn't consider Jokic, Embiid or SGA flashy really. They're just all better than Tatum. And that's the issue. Tatum is a top 10 player, he's not at the MVP level and that isn't about being flashy. It's about the stats.

I think Jokic and SGA are flashy. People complain about SGA's foul baiting, but he has biggest bag in the game, and Jokic is not a highflyer or shotblocker, but he is one of the most entertaining passers of all time, I love watching their highlights. But I would agree that Tatum's problem that he is just not MVP caliber player, not that hes not flashy. Was KD ever really flashy, he was really good tho and was MVP.

It's more the Ja's and ANT's that are flashy and neither imo are close to MVP. I'm a huge Jokic passing fan and I like SGA. I'm just saying, that their fandom isn't the highlights as much as the winning and just insane impact we both see on the stat line and in the games.

[Mirotic12]

Americans still develop most top end talent, and its not even close. It is funny how now NBA leaders are non American, were in most European leagues, including Euroleague, most of the leaders are usually American.

Also, with game getting more popular, you can not expect one country to just beat the rest of the world, even if the country is USA. I would say they still beat the rest of the world and as I said, I think the fact top 5 players being all non American is an outlier, but I mean Basketball is getting popular, it is a sport that does not require a high price of entry, hoop is the hardest part to come by, and when you look at demographics, Euros are taller on average, Africans are probably more athletic on average, for what it is, USA still doing great, I wish my country could develop players like USA does, and my country is pretty good at Basketball.

I think what we're seeing though is that American talent is being developed with limitations in their games that the top-end foreign players don't have. Maybe it's more coaching and less games as a youth in Europe (I've heard that theory). Maybe it's the club development approach--not sure. But we see players coming out of Europe (and even Canada) that seem more multidimensional, and better in the team game.

Maybe it's just an anomaly and the American players are just having a bit of a slump.

And I'm not upset or concerned about Americans versus the rest of the world, or the US keeping a lead. I'm concerned about the quality of the game, and the game is better with more top end talent. The fact the US talent seems to have regressed somewhat in recent years, given the significant US population size, suggests that there's room for improvement.

SGA finished his high school basketball career in Tennessee and then played at Kentucky. Giannis wasn't a more well rounded player. He's a genetic freak. Jokic is a 7'0, hyper strong big man who has godly hands and an IQ off the charts. Luka is a basketball savant who was getting pro level MVP's at 16. Wemby is 7'6 or something insane like that.

There's no lacking of development that can reasonably be seen here. The US population is small compared to that of the rest of the world. We should have less and less of the top 10 talented guys due to our lack of population size.

edit - forgot Embiid who also moved to the US at 16 and started playing at 15. He's 100% a product of the US development system as well.

Luka was 19 when he won an MVP in Europe. Not 16.

[UcanUwill]

I wouldn't consider Jokic, Embiid or SGA flashy really. They're just all better than Tatum. And that's the issue. Tatum is a top 10 player, he's not at the MVP level and that isn't about being flashy. It's about the stats.

I think Jokic and SGA are flashy. People complain about SGA's foul baiting, but he has biggest bag in the game, and Jokic is not a highflyer or shotblocker, but he is one of the most entertaining passers of all time, I love watching their highlights. But I would agree that Tatum's problem that he is just not MVP caliber player, not that hes not flashy. Was KD ever really flashy, he was really good tho and was MVP.

It's more the Ja's and ANT's that are flashy and neither imo are close to MVP. I'm a huge Jokic passing fan and I like SGA. I'm just saying, that their fandom isn't the highlights as much as the winning and just insane impact we both see on the stat line and in the games.

Yeah of course, but all best players are flashy to a point, hard to be best player in the world and just be boring, thats not how it usually works. Who is best player who is just flat out boring?

[Bloodbather]

I think Jokic and SGA are flashy. People complain about SGA's foul baiting, but he has biggest bag in the game, and Jokic is not a highflyer or shotblocker, but he is one of the most entertaining passers of all time, I love watching their highlights. But I would agree that Tatum's problem that he is just not MVP caliber player, not that hes not flashy. Was KD ever really flashy, he was really good tho and was MVP.

It's more the Ja's and ANT's that are flashy and neither imo are close to MVP. I'm a huge Jokic passing fan and I like SGA. I'm just saying, that their fandom isn't the highlights as much as the winning and just insane impact we both see on the stat line and in the games.

Yeah of course, but all best players are flashy to a point, hard to be best player in the world and just be boring, thats not how it usually works. Who is best player who is just flat out boring?

Rudy Gobert, probably. Even his defense isn't flashy like Wemby who has more of a wow factor to him.

It's subjective but if you look at NBA history, Tim Duncan is usually the answer to this question. I didn't think he was that boring myself, because I liked his post game. But yeah, not a flashy player at all.

Moses Malone is another one I'd put in that conversation. Most of his game was about his scoring and rebounding, and both had most to do with establishing great positions using his strength. Lots of easy buckets at the rim but he wasn't constantly dunking it like Shaq.

There aren't really those types in the game anymore offensively, though, the skill level of the average player has gone up tremendously so it's more difficult to stand out with a boring game.

[SA37]

The American with the best chance as of right is Anthony Edwards because he gets enough media hype and he is on a good team. Obviously, it won't be this year, but he's the most obvious choice.

The next tier would be Tatum and Cade Cunningham, but the media doesn't seem to be overly interested in either guy, so.

Haliburton has the slimmest of slim chances, but he'd need to play 80 games and Indiana would have to win 60+.

The youngns that might eventually make it into the convo are Flagg and Boozer.

Man, I hope Cade goes up that list. I just really love his game.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's a long shot. Detroit won 60 games (3rd in the league) and Cade had a monster year (24-10-5) and he really didn't get any traction. It's hard to imagine a better combo of individual stats and wins.

[tmorgan]

I don’t think Cade can peak that high. Ant is closer, but I don’t think so there, either.

Flagg will win some, I’d bet. He’s the next American MVP, but it’ll be a few years, because Dallas needs to get better to make it happen.