Has the Talent Level on NBA teams Dropped Off?

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Post#21 » by TheKingOfVa360 » Sun Jun 1, 2008 5:45 pm

PimpORL wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


Seriously, maybe I watch him at the wrong times. I shake my head every time I watch him play. He looks bad, makes awkward plays, but he ends gets some easy dunks, so he's still able to come out with decent stats. Just my impression of him. I just don't consider him that good.



I agree, he doesn't seem much more than a solid player with so so footwork. Not the next Wilt like Lakers fans claim he is.
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Post#22 » by richboy » Sun Jun 1, 2008 6:42 pm

Bynum looks like just like an above average center. Is there some Laker hating on this board. Bynum is 20 years old. This year he averaged 13 10 and 2 blocks in less than 30 minutes. If that not good enough before he was injured he was on a stretch of averaging 18 11 and 2 still in less than 30 minutes for almost the last month of his season. You have not seen nothing? He looks just above average? He had a PER this year of 23. He had a PER of near 28 the last month before he was injured. He rebounds at a rate equal to Dwight Howard. He blocks shot at a higher rate than D12. Can we say again he is 20 years old and has really played NBA ball for 1 1/2 seasons. Sorry those comments just scream Laker hate. If any other big was putting up those numbers at that age you be calling him a franchise center and a future HoFer. His per minute numbers at the age of 20 are better than Dwight Howard. There no way you can watch Bynum and say he looks above average. He was playing all-star level before he was injured.
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Post#23 » by Wade2k6 » Sun Jun 1, 2008 6:48 pm

Patterns wrote:No drop off. You just miss some of the players.

If you count Bynum, the Lakers would probably be the most talented team ever.

The Celtics have KG, Ray, Pierce. When was that last time you saw 3 previous franchise players together?

The Suns was loaded but couldn't get through SA.

The Mavs were loaded too but had a bad system.

The Hornets are also extremely talented.

The Pistons? All 5 of their starters are talented.

No drop off. Just different names.


pretty much on point about everything, but c'mon. You can't be serious about the bolded part. Can you?
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Post#24 » by UNLVNugsFan » Sun Jun 1, 2008 6:56 pm

I never knew that 13/10 was playing at an all-star level, otherwise someone better inform Elton Brand that he is getting screwed over every year by being passed over when he is getting 20/11.

I also don't understand this assertion that if you just add Bynum to the lineup, he can get you 19/11, just because he was getting that before. Have any of you ever watched basketball? That was pre-Gasol, he would not average anywhere near that with Gasol next to him in the lineup, he would be lucky to bring in 14/10.
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Post#25 » by G-Heel » Sun Jun 1, 2008 7:16 pm

richboy wrote:Bynum looks like just like an above average center. Is there some Laker hating on this board. Bynum is 20 years old. This year he averaged 13 10 and 2 blocks in less than 30 minutes. If that not good enough before he was injured he was on a stretch of averaging 18 11 and 2 still in less than 30 minutes for almost the last month of his season. You have not seen nothing? He looks just above average? He had a PER this year of 23. He had a PER of near 28 the last month before he was injured. He rebounds at a rate equal to Dwight Howard. He blocks shot at a higher rate than D12. Can we say again he is 20 years old and has really played NBA ball for 1 1/2 seasons. Sorry those comments just scream Laker hate. If any other big was putting up those numbers at that age you be calling him a franchise center and a future HoFer. His per minute numbers at the age of 20 are better than Dwight Howard. There no way you can watch Bynum and say he looks above average. He was playing all-star level before he was injured.


While I don't disagree with the rest of your post, 28 min/game averaging 13/10 is no where near All-Stars level. People can say "yea.. but if he play 40 min a game, he'll avg 18/13" or whatever all they want, fact is he does not play 40 min.. he play 28 min and he avg 13/10, no way that's All-Star numbers.

Its still not as ridiculous as the "If Bynum was playing, Lakers will be the most talented team ever".. lol, somehow adding Bynum has the effect of adding Shaq to Jordan's Bulls or something.
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Post#26 » by richboy » Sun Jun 1, 2008 7:21 pm

Before he was injured he was 18 and 11 and 2 for about a month. That was in about the same amount of time. Thats definitely all-star numbers for a center in todays NBA.
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Post#27 » by richboy » Sun Jun 1, 2008 7:25 pm

UNLVNugsFan wrote:I never knew that 13/10 was playing at an all-star level, otherwise someone better inform Elton Brand that he is getting screwed over every year by being passed over when he is getting 20/11.

I also don't understand this assertion that if you just add Bynum to the lineup, he can get you 19/11, just because he was getting that before. Have any of you ever watched basketball? That was pre-Gasol, he would not average anywhere near that with Gasol next to him in the lineup, he would be lucky to bring in 14/10.


Bynum will be a better player than Gasol. He may not put that up next year but unless Gasol suddenly gets stronger in the low blocks Gasol numbers will likely be the ones that take the biggest hit.
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Post#28 » by ubernathan » Sun Jun 1, 2008 7:32 pm

The talent level is the same, but the expansion teams dilute it.
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Post#29 » by wilt » Sun Jun 1, 2008 9:03 pm

common problem is that when you look at a roster from a few years back and see the names you a) assume that player that are now good were allready good back then and b) assume that players that once were good had still been good in that year.
You go after names and don
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Post#30 » by Kobe>Jordan>God » Sun Jun 1, 2008 9:16 pm

walchy wrote:definitely. On a similar note, Kobe >>>> Jordan, Pau>>>>>>>>>> Olojuwon, Odom >>>>>>>> Pippen and Bynum >>>>> God.


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Post#31 » by NO-KG-AI » Sun Jun 1, 2008 9:24 pm

wilt wrote:common problem is that when you look at a roster from a few years back and see the names you a) assume that player that are now good were allready good back then and b) assume that players that once were good had still been good in that year.
You go after names and don
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Post#32 » by _BBIB_ » Sun Jun 1, 2008 11:25 pm

THere is not less talent it's just more dispersed because of more teams and because of the salary cap.


If there was no talent, LA and Boston would have cruised their ways to the Finals.


But the teams they faced along the way had several talented players that made their trips not exaclty a walk in the park (well except Denver)
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Post#33 » by magicfan4life05 » Mon Jun 2, 2008 1:01 am

thanks to everyone responses, especially wilt, i agreed with your points and now i understand what you guys mean
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Post#34 » by Rocky5000 » Mon Jun 2, 2008 2:01 am

Yeah Bynum is not going to get 18 and 11. You have to take into account that he's going to be playing in an offense where he is the 3rd of 4th option. Look at the celtics this year. KG, Ray, and Paul all averaged 25+ ppg solo, this year they are all just under 20. KG averaged a huge number of boards in Minnesota, but when paired with a decent rebounding center in perkins and above average rebounders in rondo and pierce, his rebounds are way down. Maybe LA fans expect Odom and Gasol to take big scoring and rebounding hits, but I see Bynum being the odd man out. I think he'll get about 12-14 ppg.
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Post#35 » by KobeFan » Mon Jun 2, 2008 5:33 am

a 20 year old with very little experience putting up big (/48 #'s) indicates massive potential. Overlooking that is silly.

Having Bynum/Gasol/Odom/Bryant (all in the prime of their careers) is a core nucleus that rivals the most talented teams in the history of the league.

It's not just about them starting each game together, (and how dominate they will be when they are on the court together) its being able to keep everybody fresh over the duration of a long season, and not lose much by taking out one or two of the talented 4 during different intervals of the game.

Lets not forget about Ariza coming back next season. He adds a lot of versatility, athleticism, and potential to a team over flowing with it already.
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Post#36 » by NO-KG-AI » Mon Jun 2, 2008 5:41 am

KobeFan wrote:a 20 year old with very little experience putting up big (/48 #'s) indicates massive potential. Overlooking that is silly.

Having Bynum/Gasol/Odom/Bryant (all in the prime of their careers) is a starting rotation that rivals the most talented teams in the history of the league.

It's not just about them starting each game together, (and how dominate they will be when they are on the court together) its being able to keep everybody fresh over the duration of a long season, and not lose much by taking out one or two of the talented 4 during different intervals of the game.

Lets not forget about Ariza coming back next season. He adds a lot of versatility, athleticism, and potential to a team over flowing with it already.


Not really.
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Post#37 » by KobeFan » Mon Jun 2, 2008 5:44 am

"Not really." ?

I haven't seen one good argument made to the contrary: "Not really" doesn't do much to change that sentiment.
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Post#38 » by HarlemHeat37 » Mon Jun 2, 2008 5:45 am

I know Bynum is good and all..but let's wait to see how he plays after his injury before we anoint him as the next Kareem..

Gasol and Odom aren't anything special..

it's basically Kobe with other good players..there are plenty of teams all-time that **** on those 4 combined..
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Post#39 » by jzmagik » Mon Jun 2, 2008 5:47 am

Patterns wrote:No drop off. You just miss some of the players.

If you count Bynum, the Lakers would probably be the most talented team ever.


The Celtics have KG, Ray, Pierce. When was that last time you saw 3 previous franchise players together?

The Suns was loaded but couldn't get through SA.

The Mavs were loaded too but had a bad system.

The Hornets are also extremely talented.

The Pistons? All 5 of their starters are talented.

No drop off. Just different names.


:rofl:
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Post#40 » by NO-KG-AI » Mon Jun 2, 2008 5:51 am

KobeFan wrote:"Not really." ?

I haven't seen one good argument made to the contrary: "Not really" doesn't do much to change that sentiment.


Well I can name the most recent best team... the Jordan Bulls, and Pippen is better than the Lakers 2nd best player, Rodman is better than the second best player, Jordan is better than Kobe, so that's 3/5 already.

That's just a 90's team, there were much better starting lineups than that, and much deeper teams overall... They don't "rival" the greatest teams of all time.
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