Artest the real choice for DPOY

[devv83]

What about the 37 9 and 5 lebron dropped on the lakers on 13-25 I mean you gotta list all the games

What about Melo 25 on 11-20, about brandon roy 32 on 9-11 shooting

Steven jackson 30 on 10-16

Durant 30 on 11-19

I give Ron credit he locked down Melo the other night, even though he was floppin his ass off but if you gonna list the games list them all.

[CellarDoor]

Dwight Howard

DRtg= 95
DWS= 5.6


Ron Artest

DRtg= 104
DWS= 2.7

Ron isn't even in the discussion. Sorry.

It is one way to look at those numbers which are derived from the boxscore numbers. The other way would be looking at the On/Off court and Net numbers for both.

Artest On: 100.5
Artest Off: 105.0
Artest Net: -4.5

Howard On: 103.0
Howard Off: 105.3
Howard Net: -2.3

Seems like Artest improves the Lakers defense more than Howard improves the Magic defense. Both teams are close to each other in DRtg while neither of both players is on the court. Therefore Artest is in fact a really good candidate for DPOY.

I like On/Off Court numbers more, because the boxscore numbers aren't really good to determine defense. In fact defensive rebounds have the highest correlation to DRtg with a linear correlation coefficent of around 0.4, steals has a higher correlation to DRtg than blocked shots, but neither is higher than 0.2. Those values are rather bad. So, I wouldn't rely too much on DRtg and DWS, especially for perimeter players.

A number which is completely dependent on your back-up and other line-up changes in the game as well. Congratulations. You've matched him ambiguous stat for ambiguous stat!

[Sting3r]

Completely disagree. I think you are being blinded by one great performance on Danny Granger.
.

pure example of you being blinded or you not watching games. Hes been shutting down players left and right.

Artest's defense has been praised since the beginning of the season.

However recently hes changed his diet and been losing a little weight to support his plantar faciitis(sp?) and its been doing wonders for his defense even more. He's literally been a beast on the defensive end.

Ya need to start giving him some credit cause hes been due. Hes definitely in top discussion for DPOY.

[CellarDoor]

As far as DPOY goes...he's in my top 5 I think. I'd definitely like to see him get a 1st team selection this year for Def Team.

[J-Ville Smoke]

Did you really list stat lines from;

Ryan Gomes
Chris Douglas-Roberts
Rasual Butler
Carlos Delfino
Ronnie Brewer
Martell Webster
and
Marvin Williams

to prove Artest is the DPOY?

You have persuaded me.

yeah, and what about
Durant (twice)
James
Gay
Iggy
Granger
Dirk
Deng
Hedo

and doesn't even mention fouling Anthony out the other night. C'mon man, come correct please.

Come correct yourself homeboy.

You listed, what, 10 games against any type of real competition? Good work. I didn't realize that Artest was sole reason those players put up those statlines, could it be that he gets help from three other great defenders on the court with him? Hmm...

My point still stands, using a boxscore against the Nets and CDR is a failtastic attempt at evidence, among others.

[LakersSquad]

What about the 37 9 and 5 lebron dropped on the lakers on 13-25 I mean you gotta list all the games

What about Melo 25 on 11-20, about brandon roy 32 on 9-11 shooting

Steven jackson 30 on 10-16

Durant 30 on 11-19

I give Ron credit he locked down Melo the other night, even though he was floppin his ass off but if you gonna list the games list them all.

Brandon Roy? blame that on Kobe Steven Jackson? c'mon son both guys was defended by Kobe and Melo big game was a combo of two things bull calls and artest foot. But even then he's been great. Getting lit up by great offensive players is gonna happen here and there.

[mysticbb]

A number which is completely dependent on your back-up and other line-up changes in the game as well. Congratulations. You've matched him ambiguous stat for ambiguous stat!

Uh, and the backup minutes for Artest are mostly covered by Bryant and Odom in this season. You may have a valid argument, if Walton wouldn't be injured all season long. Anyway, I doubt that it makes much sense to bring it up, but even Artest's defensive APM is better than Howard's (-3.9 vs. -0.9). So, adjusted for the things you criticized Artest is again the better candidate.

[Bgil]

Come correct yourself homeboy.

You listed, what, 10 games against any type of real competition? Good work. I didn't realize that Artest was sole reason those players put up those statlines, could it be that he gets help from three other great defenders on the court with him? Hmm...

My point still stands, using a boxscore against the Nets and CDR is a failtastic attempt at evidence, among others.

What "three other great defenders" are you talking about?

1. Kobe
2. ???
3. ???

[desertlakerfan]

Artest makes the Lakers go from a good defensive team to one of the best in the league. Since he joined the team he said he was the defensive captain, and you can see it on the court. He really gets on people for missed assignments, and as another poster said earlier his intensity on that end really permeates through to his teammates upping their play in the process.

He might not have the fancy blocks like Howard that translate into the "all important" defensive ratings and *snicker* WIN SHARES, but night in and night out he is shutting down some of the most talented players in the league on a team that's fighting for homecourt throughout the playoffs. To anyone who pays attention to the Lakers other than when they play against your team he's the obvious DPOY so far.

[The_Commish]

i love how all the Lakers players just became great defenders when before this thread they were all soft and all offense.

[Banks2Pierce]

Dwight Howard

DRtg= 95
DWS= 5.6


Ron Artest

DRtg= 104
DWS= 2.7

Ron isn't even in the discussion. Sorry.

It is one way to look at those numbers which are derived from the boxscore numbers. The other way would be looking at the On/Off court and Net numbers for both.

Artest On: 100.5
Artest Off: 105.0
Artest Net: -4.5

Howard On: 103.0
Howard Off: 105.3
Howard Net: -2.3

Seems like Artest improves the Lakers defense more than Howard improves the Magic defense. Both teams are close to each other in DRtg while neither of both players is on the court. Therefore Artest is in fact a really good candidate for DPOY.

I like On/Off Court numbers more, because the boxscore numbers aren't really good to determine defense. In fact defensive rebounds have the highest correlation to DRtg with a linear correlation coefficent of around 0.4, steals has a higher correlation to DRtg than blocked shots, but neither is higher than 0.2. Those values are rather bad. So, I wouldn't rely too much on DRtg and DWS, especially for perimeter players.

Can you post your link for updated on/off court DRtg. The only one I know of is showing different numbers but they are not updated for 2 weeks.

[Guy986]

i love how all the Lakers players just became great defenders when before this thread they were all soft and all offense.

I also love how players suddenly become much better in a Lakers Jersey and should win every award possible. Artest wasn't even the best defender on his own team last year.

[Banks2Pierce]

i love how all the Lakers players just became great defenders when before this thread they were all soft and all offense.

I also love how players suddenly become much better in a Lakers Jersey and should win every award possible. Artest wasn't even the best defender on his own team last year.

Lakers were 5th Defensively last year so they had to be doing something right. (having bigs protecting the rim)

[bjax24]

I also love how players suddenly become much better in a Lakers Jersey and should win every award possible.

I know isn't it great. Last year they wanted his head on a silver platter for "threatening to kill" kobe.

[GatorKid117]

should I list the below avg Centers who has had great games vs Howard?

Do it !

just a quick skim through games

Bargs aint avg but he got over his avg vs Howard
26pts 66%fg his avg 17pts 47%

Krstic 14pts 58% his avg 8ppg 49%

Randolph (GSW) 28pts 13rpg his avg 11ppg 6rpg

Shaq 20pts and only one missed fg attempt? lol

Haywood 18pts 15 rebs fg% 100% LOL his avg 9ppg 10rpg 56%fg

Lewis guards Bargs when they play Toronto.
Howard was in foul trouble for most of the game against GSW.

Dwight Howard

DRtg= 95
DWS= 5.6


Ron Artest

DRtg= 104
DWS= 2.7

Ron isn't even in the discussion. Sorry.

It is one way to look at those numbers which are derived from the boxscore numbers. The other way would be looking at the On/Off court and Net numbers for both.

Artest On: 100.5
Artest Off: 105.0
Artest Net: -4.5

Howard On: 103.0
Howard Off: 105.3
Howard Net: -2.3

Seems like Artest improves the Lakers defense more than Howard improves the Magic defense. Both teams are close to each other in DRtg while neither of both players is on the court. Therefore Artest is in fact a really good candidate for DPOY.

I like On/Off Court numbers more, because the boxscore numbers aren't really good to determine defense. In fact defensive rebounds have the highest correlation to DRtg with a linear correlation coefficent of around 0.4, steals has a higher correlation to DRtg than blocked shots, but neither is higher than 0.2. Those values are rather bad. So, I wouldn't rely too much on DRtg and DWS, especially for perimeter players.

Ok, why don't we use an even better use of +/- in APM. Howard is currently 2nd in the league in APM while Ron Artest is 32. There goes that theory.

More number breakdown can be seen here http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=4516

It is a month old but nonetheless still shows Howard's impact. And then you have to consider that big men always are involved in more plays defensively and thusly can impact the games more often. Howard is currently the best at doing this. Then as someone else mentioned he has a greater DRT and more DWS and well.

There is no debate statistically wise that Howard is the best. Even to an observer, I feel there is not much of a debate. While Artest is certainly not shabby and has picked up his game immensely, Dwight Howard is the clear DPOY so far.

[CowsMoo]

*facepalm*


Just be happy with the Lakers defense with Artest. No need to declare him DPOY to the general board. Because clearly, he isn't.

[LakersSquad]

i love how all the Lakers players just became great defenders when before this thread they were all soft and all offense.

I also love how players suddenly become much better in a Lakers Jersey and should win every award possible. Artest wasn't even the best defender on his own team last year.

Lakers were 5th Defensively last year so they had to be doing something right. (having bigs protecting the rim)

So Last year did you think our Bigs was DPOY worthy for anchoring our defense to 5th best? Because in this post below you think its what makes Howard DPOY

Dwight Howard will be the best defensive player in this league for the foreseeable future. He has led the Magic to having the 4th best defense in the league while being surrounded by terrible defensive players. It truly is remarkable

.

oh yea I like how you call guys like Nelson Vince Barnes horrible. Ever heard of Fisher?

[LLcoleJ]

I also love how players suddenly become much better in a Lakers Jersey and should win every award possible.

I know isn't it great. Last year they wanted his head on a silver platter for "threatening to kill" kobe.

what does last year have to do with this year? Why all the strawman arguments? Why all the whiny-laker hater shctickness... ?

Geez.. Ron is playing great defense and is the anchor of the NUMBER 1 defense in the league. Howard is also a great defender and will most likely win the award but stop it with all of your laker whining just because Laker fans are making a case for a player who has been playing great defense, this YEAR.

[Banks2Pierce]

So Last year did you think our Bigs was DPOY worthy for anchoring our defense to 5th best? Because in this post below you think its what makes Howard DPOY



oh yea I like how you call guys like Nelson Vince Barnes horrible. Ever heard of Fisher?

No, because it is a collection of 3 very capable bigs that protect the rim rather than ONE MAN.

[LakersSquad]

So Last year did you think our Bigs was DPOY worthy for anchoring our defense to 5th best? Because in this post below you think its what makes Howard DPOY



oh yea I like how you call guys like Nelson Vince Barnes horrible. Ever heard of Fisher?

No, because it is a collection of 3 very capable bigs that protect the rim rather than ONE MAN.

So your gonna ignore what Gortat brought? In the finals gortat was a better defender than Howard.
Dwight is a great shot blocker and avg man to man defender. he aint shutting no one down. Guys like wallace & rodman did both.