Tyson Chandler to be named Defensive Player of the Year

[Joao Saraiva]

wow no love for KG, such a joke list.

He's like 5th. What are u so upset about?

[Dr Positivity]

NOT TRUE

NOT TRUE. I'm tired of this myth. They are 1.9 ppp better with him on the floor when not adjusted for Whos on the court with him.

I SAY AGAIN 1.9PPP BETTER.

What? The Knicks played indeed 1.5 points per 100 possession better defense without Chandler than with him. If we adjust for teammates and opponents, Chandler in this season ends up with being 0.1 points better than average defensively. No idea, but that is hardly DPOY worthy. But well, the story about the improved Knicks defense being caused by Chandler's presence, is out there and brought the DPOY for Chandler. Interesting enough, the Mavericks in this season with Nowitzki on the court played better defense than last season with Nowitzki, Nowitzki&Chandler or Chandler without Nowitzki. Honestly, if the defensive strength is caused by Chandler, why didn't this presence left Dallas with him?

To be fair Marion, Dirk and Haywood is still a sick defensive frontline, Carlisle is a league best coach and they're one of the predominant "not trying for offensive rebounds, would rather protect transition" teams, and they're old and smart. Dallas has a lot going for them defensively.

Tbh I think the Melo trade has more to do with the Knicks defensive improvement than its being given credit for. IMO when you add halfcourt offensive talent the team's role players are more likely to buckle down defensively if they want to stay on the court. Last year's Knicks were all about trying to outscore teams and hoping for the best.

[livintoolive]

Tony Allen is way undervalued on that list. Is it the greater importance of interior defense over perimeter defense? Or is it just that there is a plethora of perimeter offensive players who can't be stopped? Does that deem Allen's worth a little worthless?


Oh, and congrats Tyson!

[lolsauce]

I deeply honestly think the award should of gone to the fire extinguisher Amar'e tried to get to, its glass defense was great!

[Nanogeek]

Such a joke that Chandler won.

[Darain]

wow no love for KG, such a joke list.

He's like 5th. What are u so upset about?

'
Led a better defense than everyone above him

[SaintofKillers]

The best thing about Chandler winning it is that he was never an all star and he wasn't even in the top 5 of any of the defensive categories — just like with Dallas. He was an excellent defender because he was great at rotating and protecting the paint, vocalizing, intimidating, helping out, the list goes on.

He wasn't a "Larry Hughes defender" like Camby and Ibaka who got by simply because of astounding statistical numbers.

[Spates]

2011-12 Kia NBA Defensive Player of the Year Results
PLAYER TEAM 1st Place (5 Pts) 2nd Place (3 Pts) 3rd Place (1 pt) Total Points
Tyson Chandler New York 45 25 11 311
Serge Ibaka Oklahoma City 41 24 17 294
Dwight Howard Orlando 18 23 27 186
LeBron James Miami 7 19 20 112
Kevin Garnett Boston 2 9 7 44
Tony Allen Memphis 4 3 7 36
Andre Iguodala Philadelphia 1 7 7 33
Shawn Marion Dallas 2 2 1 17
Luol Deng Chicago 1 2 5 16
Josh Smith Atlanta 0 2 3 9
Joakim Noah Chicago 0 2 0 6
Marc Gasol Memphis 0 1 2 5
Chris Paul L.A. Clippers 0 1 2 5
Avery Bradley Boston 0 0 2 2
Mike Conley Memphis 0 0 2 2
Grant Hill Phoenix 0 0 2 2
Iman Shumpert New York 0 0 2 2
Greg Monroe Detroit 0 0 1 1
Dwyane Wade Miami 0 0 1 1
Russell Westbrook Oklahoma City 0 0 1 1

http://www.nba.com/2012/news/05/02/dpoy-release/

very interesting...

Notice how Kobe is nowhere on that list, but he will still make an All Defensive team

[TheKingOfVa360]

So they're saying Lebron is a better perimeter defender than Tony Allen, that's a joke

[lazfa199]

2011-12 Kia NBA Defensive Player of the Year Results
PLAYER TEAM 1st Place (5 Pts) 2nd Place (3 Pts) 3rd Place (1 pt) Total Points
Tyson Chandler New York 45 25 11 311
Serge Ibaka Oklahoma City 41 24 17 294
Dwight Howard Orlando 18 23 27 186
LeBron James Miami 7 19 20 112
Kevin Garnett Boston 2 9 7 44
Tony Allen Memphis 4 3 7 36
Andre Iguodala Philadelphia 1 7 7 33
Shawn Marion Dallas 2 2 1 17
Luol Deng Chicago 1 2 5 16
Josh Smith Atlanta 0 2 3 9
Joakim Noah Chicago 0 2 0 6
Marc Gasol Memphis 0 1 2 5
Chris Paul L.A. Clippers 0 1 2 5
Avery Bradley Boston 0 0 2 2
Mike Conley Memphis 0 0 2 2
Grant Hill Phoenix 0 0 2 2
Iman Shumpert New York 0 0 2 2
Greg Monroe Detroit 0 0 1 1
Dwyane Wade Miami 0 0 1 1
Russell Westbrook Oklahoma City 0 0 1 1

http://www.nba.com/2012/news/05/02/dpoy-release/

very interesting...

Notice how Kobe is nowhere on that list, but he will still make an All Defensive team

[PCProductions]

So they're saying Lebron is a better perimeter defender than Tony Allen, that's a joke

NOBODY is a better perimeter defender than Tony. Lebron is top 3, though.

[TheKingOfVa360]

So they're saying Lebron is a better perimeter defender than Tony Allen, that's a joke

NOBODY is a better perimeter defender than Tony. Lebron is top 3, though.

I wouldn't say Lebron is top 3, Iggy, Tony Allen, and Marion are better. But Lebron is a good all around defender, a better help defender than man to man.

[Heatallica]

The fact that Howard finished agog Lebron is laughable. The top 2 I have no problems with.

[dice]

that a big man who doesn't block a lot of shots nor do anything else at an elite level wins DPOY is laughable

[hype_2004]

The fact that Timmy D didn't get a single vote even with his limited playing suggests to me that like COTY this award is a joke and should not be taken seriously .

[QPR]

Have never understood the notion that a weak side shot-blocker is somehow perceived as a poor defender, especially one that does it to the effect Ibaka does. Even if he isn't the greatest straight up defender, the following points are all valid:

- He blocked 241 shots in the regular seasons. That's potentially 482 points he has single-handedly prevented.

- That doesn't take into account the amount of shots he changes without being credited for a block, or shots he prevents being taken purely through his presence around the rim. Shot-blockers can have a big influence defensively without even being in the play.

- Three times he had 10+ blocks, which is potentially 20 points saved. Which is the equivalent to taking the opposition's best scorer out. From Feb onwards, he was blocking 5-6 shots on a scarily regular basis.

- He is a smart shot-blocker. Unlike someone like McGee, he usually blocks his shots into an advantageous area, either to a team mate or out of bounds if necessary.

I think Chandler deserved the award, and I think quite a few players could've finished 2nd, but to say Ibaka finishing there is a joke just because his biggest strength is weak side blocking is silly. He still has a significant impact on games defensively.

[Doctor MJ]

- He blocked 241 shots in the regular seasons. That's potentially 482 points he has single-handedly prevented.

A blocked shot does not mean an ended possession. Plenty of blocks really only cause the offense to reset. One analysis last year pegged Ibaka's recovery percentage at about 60% - which is actually pretty good. So let's bump that down to about 290 points or 4.4 points prevented per game on the most superficial metric.

This, btw would still be a fantastic number.

- That doesn't take into account the amount of shots he changes without being credited for a block, or shots he prevents being taken purely through his presence around the rim. Shot-blockers can have a big influence defensively without even being in the play.

Absolutely. This is actually a much bigger deal than the blocks, in part because when you commit to going for the actual block you're gambling, and there's a good chance your team can get burned either on a failed block attempt, or even in the case of a successful one.

So here's what I'll say generally. We have actual +/- data on this stuff now. They put realistic caps on how much impact players have. A defensive player with a defensive APM score -4 (where negative is good) is extremely good. Does that mean Ibaka is off the charts good? Nope, he's never looked all that impressive actually by this metric.

Helpful that we have some studies breaking down the 4 factors. The calling card for a player like Ibaka is that he should be affecting effective FG%. Is he doing that? Yes he is. Statistician Evan Z's metric on this front gave Ibaka a -0.71 on this in a sample over the last 2.5 years. Consider that guys like Howard and Garnett were at about -0.90, and that Ibaka's a lot better now than he was 2+ years ago. That appears to be telling us that he's effective the opposition's shooting like you'd hope, but that isn't resulting in overall numbers anything like what you're talking about.

What gives?

Well, the next factor is turnovers. As in: How many turnovers are opponents committing while you're on the floor? Here you want more turnovers as a defender so positive is good.

Ibaka's rating was a -0.42.

Meanwhile the guy who is often on the court when people think Ibaka should be:

Collison's was a +0.88. Collison's killing him in this metric, as well as in rebounding (another of the 4 factors).

So bottom line: 1) The impact of a shotblocker is nothing close to 2 points for every shot blocked, and 2) The importance of the rest of the aspects of defense are really important to. For anyone wondering why Ibaka's been slow to play star-like minutes given his shotblocking numbers, this has everything to do with it, and suffice to say, there should never be a situation where you keep the DPOY on the bench because of the holes in his defensive game.

[Doctor MJ]

So they're saying Lebron is a better perimeter defender than Tony Allen, that's a joke

It never occurred to you to consider how many minutes a guy plays? LeBron plays more than 50% more minutes than Allen. Pretty tough for Allen to match LeBron's impact when he plays so little.

[hourockman]

This is still way too low for Tony Allen. I'm not even a Grizzlies or Celtics fan and it annoys me to no end how criminally underrated his impeccable defense is. I don't care if voters like paint protectors better, his D makes such an incredible difference in games, it's pretty astounding.

Cooper, Jordan, Alvin Robertson, Payton and Artest won the award 1 time. Pippen didn't win any. Pippen... Rodman only got it twice and he could guard 3 positions at elite level and sometimes could guard all 5 positions depending on the matchups. Coop, at 170 lbs, could guard Bird and Nique. Bird has mentioned more than once that he was the toughest 1:1 defender he ever faced. On the other hand, he would also switch on KJ and Stockton if Riley told him to.

That DPOY is yet another award category that is fatally flawed. The voters don't consider perimeter defense unless it is patently visible to the extreme, and there usually has to be a full season of chatter on the perimeter player's side to even pull it off once. Blocked shots are gold nuggets to the voters.

Tony Allen won't get one until he gets more media coverage, pure and simple. When that kind of thing has to happen, it shows you that there's something wrong w/ the system (if the number of times Kobe has been on the 1st team wasn't a good enough example of screwiness).