Woj Bomb: D'Antoni to HOU

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Re: Woj Bomb: D'Antoni to HOU 

Post#201 » by ckman » Sat May 28, 2016 6:11 am

TinmanZBoy wrote:Harden was not known as a selfish player until his MVP season that he was the lone playmaker in the team... and this is a guy who asked to come off bench in OKC and basically cried when he heard he was traded ... he wants to win, he can be a player who shares the ball... it is up to coaching staff and the whole team to buy in...


You can't be serious right? The reason he got traded was because he wanted more money and bigger role and rejected OKC 4 years 55m offer . He wants to be the man of the team , if he wants to win, he would have stay at OKC.
Also people need to stop using this " he came off the bench in OKC" to defend him as a team player, that's his 1st few season in the league with 2 better players in the team. He obviously a totally different person now, acting like a spoiled child after years of star treatment in Houston.
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Re: Woj Bomb: D'Antoni to HOU 

Post#202 » by gmoney411 » Sat May 28, 2016 8:30 am

ckman wrote:
TinmanZBoy wrote:Harden was not known as a selfish player until his MVP season that he was the lone playmaker in the team... and this is a guy who asked to come off bench in OKC and basically cried when he heard he was traded ... he wants to win, he can be a player who shares the ball... it is up to coaching staff and the whole team to buy in...


You can't be serious right? The reason he got traded was because he wanted more money and bigger role and rejected OKC 4 years 55m offer . He wants to be the man of the team , if he wants to win, he would have stay at OKC.
Also people need to stop using this " he came off the bench in OKC" to defend him as a team player, that's his 1st few season in the league with 2 better players in the team. He obviously a totally different person now, acting like a spoiled child after years of star treatment in Houston.


He left because they were going to underpay him. And based on the current salary cap he is still being underpaid. Staying in OKC was his first choice.

What exactly has he done that makes you say he is acting like a spoiled child?
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Re: Woj Bomb: D'Antoni to HOU 

Post#203 » by BallerTalk » Sat May 28, 2016 9:04 am

ckman wrote:
TinmanZBoy wrote:Harden was not known as a selfish player until his MVP season that he was the lone playmaker in the team... and this is a guy who asked to come off bench in OKC and basically cried when he heard he was traded ... he wants to win, he can be a player who shares the ball... it is up to coaching staff and the whole team to buy in...


You can't be serious right? The reason he got traded was because he wanted more money and bigger role and rejected OKC 4 years 55m offer . He wants to be the man of the team , if he wants to win, he would have stay at OKC.
Also people need to stop using this " he came off the bench in OKC" to defend him as a team player, that's his 1st few season in the league with 2 better players in the team. He obviously a totally different person now, acting like a spoiled child after years of star treatment in Houston.


I think it's you who can't be serious. Harden's trade had NOTHING to do with him wanting a "bigger role" and everything to do with Thunder management not wanting to go into luxury tax territory.

And as far as the contract, he demanded what he felt he was worth and has since proven to be a bargain at that price. Remember the Thunder had just given Ibaka and Westbrook max deals in consecutive seasons and Harden was just as integral to their success as either of those two.
Even with that, he still might have taken OKC's final offer had Presti not given him and his agent just 1 hour to accept the final $54M offer.
Harden is on record saying he was as much hurt by the time limit ultimatum to make what he called "one of the biggest decisions" of his life as he was devastated about the trade overall

I can only assume you are confusing James Harden's departure from OKC with Reggie Jackson's. Either that or you're just flat out hating.
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Re: Woj Bomb: D'Antoni to HOU 

Post#204 » by bondom34 » Sat May 28, 2016 9:34 am

BallerTalk wrote:
ckman wrote:
TinmanZBoy wrote:Harden was not known as a selfish player until his MVP season that he was the lone playmaker in the team... and this is a guy who asked to come off bench in OKC and basically cried when he heard he was traded ... he wants to win, he can be a player who shares the ball... it is up to coaching staff and the whole team to buy in...


You can't be serious right? The reason he got traded was because he wanted more money and bigger role and rejected OKC 4 years 55m offer . He wants to be the man of the team , if he wants to win, he would have stay at OKC.
Also people need to stop using this " he came off the bench in OKC" to defend him as a team player, that's his 1st few season in the league with 2 better players in the team. He obviously a totally different person now, acting like a spoiled child after years of star treatment in Houston.


I think it's you who can't be serious. Harden's trade had NOTHING to do with him wanting a "bigger role" and everything to do with Thunder management not wanting to go into luxury tax territory.

And as far as the contract, he demanded what he felt he was worth and has since proven to be a bargain at that price. Remember the Thunder had just given Ibaka and Westbrook max deals in consecutive seasons and Harden was just as integral to their success as either of those two.
Even with that, he still might have taken OKC's final offer had Presti not given him and his agent just 1 hour to accept the final $54M offer.
Harden is on record saying he was as much hurt by the time limit ultimatum to make what he called "one of the biggest decisions" of his life as he was devastated about the trade overall

I can only assume you are confusing James Harden's departure from OKC with Reggie Jackson's. Either that or you're just flat out hating.

Just to clarify, Ibaka's not a max, and Westbrook took a discount to try to stick together.
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Re: Woj Bomb: D'Antoni to HOU 

Post#205 » by BallerTalk » Sat May 28, 2016 9:57 am

bondom34 wrote:Just to clarify, Ibaka's not a max, and Westbrook took a discount to try to stick together.


Right about Ibaka, 4 yr deal is not full max ($48M).
However I'm pretty sure Westbrook did sign a 5 yr $80M max extension.
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Re: Woj Bomb: D'Antoni to HOU 

Post#206 » by bondom34 » Sat May 28, 2016 3:50 pm

BallerTalk wrote:
bondom34 wrote:Just to clarify, Ibaka's not a max, and Westbrook took a discount to try to stick together.


Right about Ibaka, 4 yr deal is not full max ($48M).
However I'm pretty sure Westbrook did sign a 5 yr $80M max extension.

Westbrook was eligible for the higher max at 30 percent of the cap.

http://www.welcometoloudcity.com/2012/1/19/2719026/russell-westbrook-signs-5-year-80-million-contract-extension

Because of the way the new CBA language is worded, you can see that while the player designation and the 30% max are paired together, they can be de-coupled, and the Thunder's contract situation with Durant and Westbrook would allow for it. Durant's contract was signed before the new CBA, so he received the five year extension without consuming the player "designation." This left the "designation" option on the table for Westbrook to scoop up, so now he too can be a five year player eligible for the 30% maximum. The Thunder would have two players on their team that could take up 60% of their salary cap.

So what happened?

Westbrook said, "No."

According to all reports that have come out, Westbrook chose not to pursue the "Rose Rule" bump. Says Darnell Mayberry via Twitter:

"The contract also is locked in at the maximum 25% of the cap, not the "Derrick Rose" max of 30%"

All Westbrook would need to do to qualify for a Rose Rule bump was to make All-NBA first, second, or third team. Unless he were to get hurt this season, the chances of that happening are extremely high. The opportunity was there, and Westbrook pushed his chair away from the table and said, "That's good for me."

By leaving money on the table, the Thunder now have greater capacity to re-sign James Harden and Serge Ibaka, both of whom have contract extensions coming up in the 2013 season. The Thunder will need both of those players if they are continue their championship pursuits.
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Re: Woj Bomb: D'Antoni to HOU 

Post#207 » by BallerTalk » Sat May 28, 2016 6:34 pm

bondom34 wrote:
"The contract also is locked in at the maximum 25% of the cap, not the "Derrick Rose" max of 30%"


So regular "max" and not the Rose Rule "super max"?
Okay.
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Re: Woj Bomb: D'Antoni to HOU 

Post#208 » by Salieri » Sat May 28, 2016 6:53 pm

AussieRules wrote:Ok. A couple more things.

Lakers made the 7th seed not 8th seed that season.

You just made my point for me concerning Earl. He was a scrub under any other coach but very serviceable under D'Antoni scored himself a good contract that year. D'Antoni has increased the market value of numerous players over the years.. Kent Bazemore, Chris Duhon, Joe Johnson, Jeremy Lin and the list goes on.

Pau still shot 3s when he was on the floor with Dwight (you can check the game logs) ofcourse D'Antoni threw him a bone and played him in the post more when Dwight was on the bench, he staggered their mins well.

Also the team was horrible before D'Antoni even joined them, they couldn't win a game that season under Mike Brown. The players were already frustrated, Dwight pouted because he didn't get the coach he wanted. Pau pouted and whined because he had to step aside for Dwight.
In my opinion, D'Antoni did the best he could out of that situation, does he have his flaws? Yes but he is not Dr. Evil and the incompetent coach some fans paint him out to be.


I see your point to a certain extent: D'Antoni is not the horribly awful coach some posters are making him out to be. Plus, even if he looked like so, I always have a hard time calling out an NBA coach. No matter how stupid his decisions seem to be, any guy in that position has forgotten more about pro bball than anyone in this forum will ever know. They also have access to a TON of information we don't, so their system, rotations, adjustments, etc. could follow some plan we plain can't see, or be hindered by internal situations we can't know of.

Having said that, as a Lakers fan I do have one legit complain about him: he is dishonest to the bone. I can accept that he's a "system" guy and he prefers adapting his roster to his system than the other way around. But I can't accept him doing interviews before getting the job in LA claiming that roster was PERFECT for his system, only to start missusing players and blaming them for the losses (Pau, Metta, Dwight). He twisted the team's identity to try and fit it into a system that was clearly subpar for that roster. He had Kobe and Pau for excellent post play and inside-out dynamics. He had arguably the best PnR center in the league. He had an amazing PnR PG and top tier playmaker in Nash (when healthy). Yet he chose to run a mimick of the 2015 GSW offense with only 1 elite 3pt shooter in the team, and disregarded the paint unless when it came to catering to Howard's stupid demands.

As I said, I can live with all those decisions if it weren't for a little fact: his claim of Lakers being a perfect roster for his system proved to be a blatant lie. Once I saw this, I could understand Pau wanting a meeting with him to discuss the system (not pouting and whining, as you said... that attitude belongs to D'Antoni who had no problem throwing his players under the bus time after time while not even once aknowledging his faults) and I could understand Kobe showing him the middle finger and running what worked for so long: Pau as a prime option in the paint, Kobe as a field commander with green light to do as he sees fit. Surprise surprise, the team clicked and had an amazing second half of season to finally clinch a playoff spot.

Is he a coach that could thrive with the proper personnel? Absolutely. Can he use role players to a more than adequate level to integrate an offense? Yes. Can a good ball handler make an amazing career under his tutelage? Of course. Do I trust him as a person to analyze what's wrong in a team and work constructively to fix it? Hell no. Is he an honest guy whose word you can trust? Nope. And IMO that's more important than people give it credit for, so that's why I wouldn't feel comfortable if I were a Rockets fan.
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Re: Woj Bomb: D'Antoni to HOU 

Post#209 » by bondom34 » Sat May 28, 2016 7:28 pm

BallerTalk wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
"The contract also is locked in at the maximum 25% of the cap, not the "Derrick Rose" max of 30%"


So regular "max" and not the Rose Rule "super max"?
Okay.

Yep, and somewhat for the reason of keeping the team together.
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