2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread

[bondom34]

Westbrook has been great so far on high volume, but it is only 4 games and 3 of those games were against the worst teams from last season who were also the bottom 3 offensively. Knowing that I would bet that the Thunder have started out with one of the best defenses in the NBA because of opponents played.

If we're going by that, the Lakers put up about 120 on Atlanta and Phoenix over 100 on GSW. Both over what they did vs. OKC.

[evilpimp972]

He's the MVP so far for sure and he's playing on an incredible level. I would quibble with saying he has no help though. It's true he has to carry an absurd role offensively, but that team is playing incredible defense right now and one man (especially a pg) can't make that happen himself. The offensive load is absurd though

The lineup of WB - Oladipo - Robertson - Grant - Adams is insane defensively, really crazy.
Too bad they can't score

[evilpimp972]

Harden obviously is.

Harden's definitely 2nd at this point. But the 2-way impact Westbrook has been having puts him way over Harden, despite probably being slightly better offensively.

I think that Harden will definitely close the gap as the season goes on though, I don't think OKC can keep it up and Houston will probably only get better.

I've barely watched any OKC so far, but it's incredibly hard to believe that Westbrook is having any kind of defensive impact when he never has in his career.

Still had a far better impact than James Harden, who got lit up by Jordan Clarkson lol

[NBAfan3024]

Interesting Durant is averaging

28 points
9 rebounds
4 assists

58% from the floor. Yet only 23% from three

[Dadouv47]

Harden obviously is.

Harden's definitely 2nd at this point. But the 2-way impact Westbrook has been having puts him way over Harden, despite probably being slightly better offensively.

I think that Harden will definitely close the gap as the season goes on though, I don't think OKC can keep it up and Houston will probably only get better.

I've barely watched any OKC so far, but it's incredibly hard to believe that Westbrook is having any kind of defensive impact when he never has in his career.

You right. But comparing to Harden he's like the GOAT on defense

[Duke4life831]

I still think Kawhi is the safe bet for MVP (or Lebron of course). I just feel like Westrbooks and Hardens numbers will come down to earth a little and OKC and Houston will be in the bottom half of Western playoff teams. If Kawhi averages 27-28 ppg and SA is a top 2 seed I think its game over. The edge defensively he has over every other MVP candidate, even Lebron to a lesser degree, if he is one of the top scorers as well I dont see how you dont give it to him.

[bmurph128]

Can you imagine if this version of Harden and this version of Westbrook were on the same team?

You could literally just play each of them like 30 minutes, always have one on the floor at the same time and only have both on the floor together late in the 4th...

Or even if you just split them and had them each play 24 minutes, never on the court together....I think OKC would be the best team in the West. Crazy to think these guys used to play on the same team.

[BScoreez]

Westbrook has been great so far on high volume, but it is only 4 games and 3 of those games were against the worst teams from last season who were also the bottom 3 offensively. Knowing that I would bet that the Thunder have started out with one of the best defenses in the NBA because of opponents played.

If we're going by that, the Lakers put up about 120 on Atlanta and Phoenix over 100 on GSW. Both over what they did vs. OKC.

I haven't watched the Atlanta and the Lakers have started off better this season on offense, but the Warriors defense has not been good so far this season so it is not completely surprising. They haven't played good defense against anyone regardless of opponent although the Warriors actually gave up less points to the Suns than the Thunder did (although Thunder/Suns went to overtime). The Suns and 76ers who were bottom three offensively last year have started off bottom 4 this season along with the Pelicans and the Thunder.

Anyway my point was that it is only 4 games so opponents, streaks, etc. can impact such a small sample size. Things will change for all teams dramatically as we get further into the season. Westbrook has gotten off to a great start though.

[bondom34]

Westbrook has been great so far on high volume, but it is only 4 games and 3 of those games were against the worst teams from last season who were also the bottom 3 offensively. Knowing that I would bet that the Thunder have started out with one of the best defenses in the NBA because of opponents played.

If we're going by that, the Lakers put up about 120 on Atlanta and Phoenix over 100 on GSW. Both over what they did vs. OKC.

I haven't watched the Atlanta and the Lakers have started off better this season on offense, but the Warriors defense has not been good so far this season so it is not completely surprising. They haven't played good defense against anyone regardless of opponent although the Warriors actually gave up less points to the Suns than the Thunder did (although Thunder/Suns went to overtime). The Suns and 76ers who were bottom three offensively last year have started off bottom 4 this season along with the Pelicans and the Thunder.

Anyway my point was that it is only 4 games so opponents, streaks, etc. can impact such a small sample size. Things will change for all teams dramatically as we get further into the season. Westbrook has gotten off to a great start though.

Atlanta was the one of the top 5, if not the top defense in the league before the Lakers game.

[Pelly24]

Most Volume Player?? Sure...
Most Valuable Player?? We'll see it. I don't like that heavy usage but he's winning games now so maybe he win it.. not like 2 years ago when with the same method he couldn't get in the playoffs (but in his defense their teammates were even worse than now).

From ESPN:

"During the 39 full games he played with an injured Durant off the court in 2014-15, Westbrook averaged 31.4 points, 9.2 assists and 7.9 rebounds per game. Oklahoma City went 22-17 in those games, a 46-win pace over a full season similar to RPM's projection for this year's Thunder."

Honestly, I don't think his teammates were worse than now. Ibaka would do better when he was healthy.

But Ibaka wasn't healthy for much of that stretch in 2015. Thats the point.

Yeah, so Westbrook's record mightve been even better. More comparable to KD's without him in 2014

[inquisitive]

I don't think it is about seeding to get an MVP vote. It is about how many games your team wins. I think 50 games is all that is needed to 'qualify' besides the obvious stats.

[Duke4life831]

I don't think it is about seeding to get an MVP vote. It is about how many games your team wins. I think 50 games is all that is needed to 'qualify' besides the obvious stats.

Only once since 1985 has a player not on a top 2 seed team won MVP and that was Jordan in 88. Malone won in 99, Utah in was a 3rd seed, but it was a strike shorten season and they were tied for the best win % in the NBA that season. So I think its a very very safe bet that the MVP will come from a top 2 seed.

[jwise44]

Harden's definitely 2nd at this point. But the 2-way impact Westbrook has been having puts him way over Harden, despite probably being slightly better offensively.

I think that Harden will definitely close the gap as the season goes on though, I don't think OKC can keep it up and Houston will probably only get better.

I've barely watched any OKC so far, but it's incredibly hard to believe that Westbrook is having any kind of defensive impact when he never has in his career.

You right. But comparing to Harden he's like the GOAT on defense

Harden is actually giving effort on d and not ball watching AS MUCH. Last year he didn't try and only ball watched

Not saying he's as good as Westbrook on d or at all or anything like that, just hope people watch the rockets and at least notice this year he really cares instead of just going off last year

[ken6199]

Can you imagine if this version of Harden and this version of Westbrook were on the same team?

You could literally just play each of them like 30 minutes, always have one on the floor at the same time and only have both on the floor together late in the 4th...

Or even if you just split them and had them each play 24 minutes, never on the court together....I think OKC would be the best team in the West. Crazy to think these guys used to play on the same team.

Then they wouldn't have developed into the players they are today. At least I know Harden wouldn't. Superstars won't be content with 24mpg, or even 30mpg. Team salary structure will be weird.

The main reason it works is because a $11m/per injury-prone guard turned into a 2-time MVP. Once Curry starts eating up 30m it will be a whole lot different.

[Triples333]

Can you imagine if this version of Harden and this version of Westbrook were on the same team?

You could literally just play each of them like 30 minutes, always have one on the floor at the same time and only have both on the floor together late in the 4th...

Or even if you just split them and had them each play 24 minutes, never on the court together....I think OKC would be the best team in the West. Crazy to think these guys used to play on the same team.

Then they wouldn't have developed into the players they are today. At least I know Harden wouldn't. Superstars won't be content with 24mpg, or even 30mpg. Team salary structure will be weird.

The main reason it works is because a $11m/per injury-prone guard turned into a 2-time MVP. Once Curry starts eating up 30m it will be a whole lot different.

Since Klay and Draymond are on such great contracts they can still keep the big-4 in tact though. They will rely on rookie contracts, vet-mins and MLE's for the rest of the roster. Where they will have to do a bit more maneuvering is in the summer of 2020 when klay becomes a free agent again. Until then there is really no way to break up the big-4 unless Curry or KD chooses to leave.

[inquisitive]

I don't think it is about seeding to get an MVP vote. It is about how many games your team wins. I think 50 games is all that is needed to 'qualify' besides the obvious stats.

Only once since 1985 has a player not on a top 2 seed team won MVP and that was Jordan in 88. Malone won in 99, Utah in was a 3rd seed, but it was a strike shorten season and they were tied for the best win % in the NBA that season. So I think its a very very safe bet that the MVP will come from a top 2 seed.

i think if we see quite a few players putting up big numbers across the board with no particular one that stands out, then we could get a winner from a lower seed if his team won around 50 games.

[inquisitive]

Can you imagine if this version of Harden and this version of Westbrook were on the same team?

You could literally just play each of them like 30 minutes, always have one on the floor at the same time and only have both on the floor together late in the 4th...

Or even if you just split them and had them each play 24 minutes, never on the court together....I think OKC would be the best team in the West. Crazy to think these guys used to play on the same team.

Then they wouldn't have developed into the players they are today. At least I know Harden wouldn't. Superstars won't be content with 24mpg, or even 30mpg. Team salary structure will be weird.

The main reason it works is because a $11m/per injury-prone guard turned into a 2-time MVP. Once Curry starts eating up 30m it will be a whole lot different.

Since Klay and Draymond are on such great contracts they can still keep the big-4 in tact though. They will rely on rookie contracts, vet-mins and MLE's for the rest of the roster. Where they will have to do a bit more maneuvering is in the summer of 2020 when klay becomes a free agent again. Until then there is really no way to break up the big-4 unless Curry or KD chooses to leave.

iggy and Livingston will likely get big contracts after this season from other teams and kd along with curry getting max after this season...not having a good bench is gonna be their big problem. at least this year they still have those two.

[Triples333]

Then they wouldn't have developed into the players they are today. At least I know Harden wouldn't. Superstars won't be content with 24mpg, or even 30mpg. Team salary structure will be weird.

The main reason it works is because a $11m/per injury-prone guard turned into a 2-time MVP. Once Curry starts eating up 30m it will be a whole lot different.

Since Klay and Draymond are on such great contracts they can still keep the big-4 in tact though. They will rely on rookie contracts, vet-mins and MLE's for the rest of the roster. Where they will have to do a bit more maneuvering is in the summer of 2020 when klay becomes a free agent again. Until then there is really no way to break up the big-4 unless Curry or KD chooses to leave.

iggy and Livingston will likely get big contracts after this season from other teams...not having a good bench is gonna be their big problem. at least this year they still have those two.

For sure. But we have to imagine that they will get some above average vet-min contracts and I'm sure they have an MLE. Plus if they hit on a rookie like McCaw that's just an added bonus for them. No matter what with a core that strong they are going to be title favorites or close to it every year until 2020 minimum.

[Gil]

I don't think Westbrook's numbers are sustainable at all especially with his high-octane style of play. He has the highest motor of any Superstar but with the minutes & usage he's averaging it's only a matter of time before fatigue kicks in. As a matter of fact his advanced stats are already slowly dropping already.

I think the MVP race is Kawhi's to lose at this point. Harden is my dark horse but I don't think he has the team to compete with Kawhi. Tyler Ennis and Ryan Anderson's inability to defend are the only reason the Rockets aren't 4-0 right now.

[Triples333]

I don't think Westbrook's numbers are sustainable at all especially with his high-octane style of play. He has the highest motor of any Superstar but with the minutes & usage he's averaging it's only a matter of time before fatigue kicks in. As a matter of fact his advanced stats are already slowly dropping already.

I think the MVP race is Kawhi's to lose at this point. Harden is my dark horse but I don't think he has the team to compete with Kawhi. Tyler Ennis and Ryan Anderson's inability to defend are the only reason the Rockets aren't 4-0 right now.

His usage% is 44% lol which would totally blow away the highest ever mark. He already looks gassed honestly. Last night he was hands on knees gasping for air at times. Harden's numbers are sustainable and Kawhi's are also besides the efficiency. Westbrook no chance.