ECSF: P2 | (2) Boston Celtics vs Philadelphia 76ers (3) | BOS 3-0

[Darth Celtic]

The bolded is entirely untrue. Feeding Simmons against smaller defenders in the post is one of our go-to plays offensively. Regarding his finishing ability, Ben had the highest FG% in the league of anybody with that number of FGA per game. If you view LeBron as a mismatch then you view Simmons as a mismatch- and no I'm not saying Simmons is as good as LeBron.

Simmons doesn‘t attempt many post up shots (1.1 FGA). His post ups are more for playmaking as noted by his horrendous points per possession season average (0.69). His FG% on post ups was 42%, which isn‘t very stellar either. These drop further in the playoffs (unfair to him since it‘s only a 5 game sample size). Tell me how Simmons is good at scoring in the post again?

The reason why Lebron is a mismatch is because he has every advantage in the book. There‘s no give when defending him. Simmons does not have the same speed nor strength as Lebron. Most of the Celtics wing defenders have some kind of extrordinary physical tool to close the gap. There are huge differences between Lebron and Simmons, which separates them in terms of causing matching problems for other teams. Even Giannis is a better scorer than Simmons because he has better traits he takes advantage of using.

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His post up frequency is virtually the same as LeBron's (9.2%), and LeBron doesn't run true point the way Simmons does (or play next to Embiid for that matter). Regarding Ben's athleticism, you are really underselling him. He's a lot closer to LeBron than you seem to think.

Watching him, he might be more athletic that Lebron. I am not sure he'll ever have the same bully strength. He just needs a counterpunch. We'll see.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Bigger and more athletic, he's bigger and more athletic than Curry too, but I think I might take Curry in that matchup because he can shoot outside 5 feet.

We get it, in 5 years Simmons might be top 3 in the league, but to do that, he has to have at least the ability to make 30% of his jump shots. He's not Shaq.

Cringe-worthy post. Not worth my time.

Then why respond at all? you've been the worst in these threads so far. Maybe you don't have time, because it's true. I know it, others all know it, but maybe 3 of the sixers superfans who post here.

Taking Curry over Simmons is cringeworthy? Saying he's not shaq and needs to hit some jump shots to be a top 3 player is cringeworthy? So right now, Simmons is a top 3 player and doesn't need to shoot?

(1) Curry is irrelevant. Curry would never defend Ben and if he did, it would not end well. (2) Shaq is irrelevant; 2 completely different playing styles. (3) He already makes over 30% of his jump shots, so I really don't see what you're getting at.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Cringe-worthy post. Not worth my time.

Then why respond at all? you've been the worst in these threads so far. Maybe you don't have time, because it's true. I know it, others all know it, but maybe 3 of the sixers superfans who post here.

Taking Curry over Simmons is cringeworthy? Saying he's not shaq and needs to hit some jump shots to be a top 3 player is cringeworthy? So right now, Simmons is a top 3 player and doesn't need to shoot?

(1) Curry is irrelevant. Curry would never defend Ben and if he did, it would not end well. (2) Shaq is irrelevant; 2 completely different playing styles. (3) He already makes over 30% of his jump shots, so I really don't see what you're getting at.

FWIW I misread your original post so it was less cringe-worthy than I thought. I still don't agree with (or understand?) the point being made.

[FlatearthZorro]

Then why respond at all? you've been the worst in these threads so far. Maybe you don't have time, because it's true. I know it, others all know it, but maybe 3 of the sixers superfans who post here.

Taking Curry over Simmons is cringeworthy? Saying he's not shaq and needs to hit some jump shots to be a top 3 player is cringeworthy? So right now, Simmons is a top 3 player and doesn't need to shoot?

(1) Curry is irrelevant. Curry would never defend Ben and if he did, it would not end well. (2) Shaq is irrelevant; 2 completely different playing styles. (3) He already makes over 30% of his jump shots, so I really don't see what you're getting at.

FWIW I misread your original post so it was less cringe-worthy than I thought. I still don't agree with (or understand?) the point being made.

The point is that Simmons is not a good post scorer and he needs a jumper to be elite. Layups and dunks can only get this far.


Blah. Jaylen might not play. I was expecting him to.

[FlatearthZorro]

Btw, another golden opportunity for the Sixers. With Brown out(doubtful) again, if you can't win we might need to put reconsider the "Process".

[titlebound1]

Simmons is pretty much a taller rondo

[titlebound1]

Actually... Rondo is a much better be 3 point shooter

[Optms]

Yeah but just about anyone is a better 3 point shooter than Simmons. His 3 point shooting is so bad he literately doesn't even take them. That's how non-existent his jump shot is.

[GeorgeMarcus]

(1) Curry is irrelevant. Curry would never defend Ben and if he did, it would not end well. (2) Shaq is irrelevant; 2 completely different playing styles. (3) He already makes over 30% of his jump shots, so I really don't see what you're getting at.

FWIW I misread your original post so it was less cringe-worthy than I thought. I still don't agree with (or understand?) the point being made.

The point is that Simmons is not a good post scorer and he needs a jumper to be elite. Layups and dunks can only get this far.


Blah. Jaylen might not play. I was expecting him to.

DarthCeltic didn't mention anything about post play. Over 50% of Ben's FGA are from 3+ feet including almost 20% from 10+ feet. His reliance on dunks/lay-ups is being overstated here.

Sucks about Jaylen though. Even as a Philly fan you don't want to see that.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Yeah but just about anyone is a better 3 point shooter than Simmons. His 3 point shooting is so bad he literately doesn't even take them. That's how non-existent his jump shot is.

Watch on YouTube

He can shoot them but he elects not to. Playing within his means is both a blessing and a curse for Ben. Not to say he's a good 3pt shooter- obviously he's not- but he's not as bad as his 3pt attempts would indicate.

[Optms]

Yeah but just about anyone is a better 3 point shooter than Simmons. His 3 point shooting is so bad he literately doesn't even take them. That's how non-existent his jump shot is.

Watch on YouTube

He can shoot them but he elects not to. Playing within his means is both a blessing and a curse for Ben. Not to say he's a good 3pt shooter- obviously he's not- but he's not as bad as his 3pt attempts would indicate.

Anyone can shoot in an empty gym, being covered by absolutely no one.

Watch on YouTube

[Darth Celtic]

FWIW I misread your original post so it was less cringe-worthy than I thought. I still don't agree with (or understand?) the point being made.

The point is that Simmons is not a good post scorer and he needs a jumper to be elite. Layups and dunks can only get this far.


Blah. Jaylen might not play. I was expecting him to.

DarthCeltic didn't mention anything about post play. Over 50% of Ben's FGA are from 3+ feet including almost 20% from 10+ feet. His reliance on dunks/lay-ups is being overstated here.

Sucks about Jaylen though. Even as a Philly fan you don't want to see that.

Well, I kind of did. I pointed out he is not Shaq. A guy who made a living on post play and didn't have to shoot jump shots, like ever. That's what he did. Simmons can't be that player. There will always be some scrub a team can throw out there to defend him from bulling over and dunking every time down the court. Like Semi on the C's. Like the 08 celtics who surrounded Lebron and didn't let him get to the hoop, and he could shoot a little back then. To truly be great, Lebron had to make his jumper good enough to respect.

He did and then some. Simmons is the same. Sure he's physically gifted and can overpower most. Even in the regular season, he will dominate this way, but in the playoffs teams game plan. The game changes. If he wants to be a top top player, he has to get a least a bad jump shot or he will be a big strong rondo (still very good, but not top 10 NBA player).

He's 21 right? I expect that to come in time. I just think it's overreaction to call him top 10 now. He probably will be some day. And that centers around having the ability to shoot good enough to pull the defense out, with or without the ball.

[GeorgeMarcus]

Yeah but just about anyone is a better 3 point shooter than Simmons. His 3 point shooting is so bad he literately doesn't even take them. That's how non-existent his jump shot is.

Watch on YouTube

He can shoot them but he elects not to. Playing within his means is both a blessing and a curse for Ben. Not to say he's a good 3pt shooter- obviously he's not- but he's not as bad as his 3pt attempts would indicate.

Anyone can shoot in an empty gym, being covered by absolutely no one.

Watch on YouTube

Howard has a much slower release. At least Simmons could stop on a dime and get his shot off in rhythm. I expect he'll extend his range to the 3pt line as soon as next year.

[commentatorer]

Simmons can definitely shoot in the playoffs, and with the shot-clock expiring-
https://youtu.be/SOvQ1ezycy8?t=120
Also notice he's a .674 free-throw shooter in the playoffs (and 7.7 attempts per game)?
LeBron shot .674 for the entirety of 2016-17 regular season, and shot .661 for the 2016 playoffs.

Which basically means Simmons and Lebron need to work on their free throws.

Especially LeBron, 1-6 yesterday.

Howard has a much slower release. At least Simmons could stop on a dime and get his shot off in rhythm. I expect he'll extend his range to the 3pt line as soon as next year.

I agree Simmons has a bright future downtown.

[GeorgeMarcus]

The point is that Simmons is not a good post scorer and he needs a jumper to be elite. Layups and dunks can only get this far.


Blah. Jaylen might not play. I was expecting him to.

DarthCeltic didn't mention anything about post play. Over 50% of Ben's FGA are from 3+ feet including almost 20% from 10+ feet. His reliance on dunks/lay-ups is being overstated here.

Sucks about Jaylen though. Even as a Philly fan you don't want to see that.

Well, I kind of did. I pointed out he is not Shaq. A guy who made a living on post play and didn't have to shoot jump shots, like ever. That's what he did. Simmons can't be that player. There will always be some scrub a team can throw out there to defend him from bulling over and dunking every time down the court. Like Semi on the C's. Like the 08 celtics who surrounded Lebron and didn't let him get to the hoop, and he could shoot a little back then. To truly be great, Lebron had to make his jumper good enough to respect.

He did and then some. Simmons is the same. Sure he's physically gifted and can overpower most. Even in the regular season, he will dominate this way, but in the playoffs teams game plan. The game changes. If he wants to be a top top player, he has to get a least a bad jump shot or he will be a big strong rondo (still very good, but not top 10 NBA player).

He's 21 right? I expect that to come in time. I just think it's overreaction to call him top 10 now. He probably will be some day. And that centers around having the ability to shoot good enough to pull the defense out, with or without the ball.

The difference is that Shaq wouldn't be handling the ball out on the perimeter and running the offense. Their roles are too different to compare. The fact that teams can't ignore Simmons in the 10-15 foot range is a good starting point but yes he'll have to extend his range to the 3pt line to be an all time great.

[commentatorer]

Magic Johnson developed a 3-pointer, but hypothetically if he didn't develop it he still would have been the greatest PG ever.

[Darth Celtic]

The difference is that Shaq wouldn't be handling the ball out on the perimeter and running the offense. Their roles are too different to compare. The fact that teams can't ignore Simmons in the 10-15 foot range is a good starting point but yes he'll have to extend his range to the 3pt line to be an all time great.

Magic Johnson developed a 3-pointer, but hypothetically if he didn't develop it he still would have still been the greatest PG ever.

In the 80's with a WAY different rule on zone defenses. You would have to be kind of young not to remember. Rules changed in the late 90's sometime.

Now you can double without the ball and play a zone ish type man defense. Spacing and shooting is evolving our current game. Hence the D Howards of the world are not the staple of every teams center position.

[Darth Celtic]

I mean, Larry Bird was one of the best 3 shooters of all time, and you would be surprised how few he shot.

[commentatorer]

I think if Magic Johnson without a 3-point-shot played in today's NBA he'd be the best PG in the NBA.

[ballup]

The bolded is entirely untrue. Feeding Simmons against smaller defenders in the post is one of our go-to plays offensively. Regarding his finishing ability, Ben had the highest FG% in the league of anybody with that number of FGA per game. If you view LeBron as a mismatch then you view Simmons as a mismatch- and no I'm not saying Simmons is as good as LeBron.

Simmons doesn‘t attempt many post up shots (1.1 FGA). His post ups are more for playmaking as noted by his horrendous points per possession season average (0.69). His FG% on post ups was 42%, which isn‘t very stellar either. These drop further in the playoffs (unfair to him since it‘s only a 5 game sample size). Tell me how Simmons is good at scoring in the post again?

The reason why Lebron is a mismatch is because he has every advantage in the book. There‘s no give when defending him. Simmons does not have the same speed nor strength as Lebron. Most of the Celtics wing defenders have some kind of extrordinary physical tool to close the gap. There are huge differences between Lebron and Simmons, which separates them in terms of causing matching problems for other teams. Even Giannis is a better scorer than Simmons because he has better traits he takes advantage of using.

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His post up frequency is virtually the same as LeBron's (9.2%), and LeBron doesn't run true point the way Simmons does (or play next to Embiid for that matter). Regarding Ben's athleticism, you are really underselling him. He's a lot closer to LeBron than you seem to think.

So what if Lebron has the same post up frequency as Simmons? Lebron is crazy efficient on post up situations and average almost twice the shots than Simmons. You know what Lebron can also do? Score anywhere on the court. He doesn‘t need to distribute more shots to the post because he still beats a lot of defenders or out muscles them. The latter is what opens more shots than normally would be there for most other perimeter players. Simmons simply does not have that caliber of strength yet.

Height helps provide separation in shooting and post shots. The fact that Simmons doesn‘t take jump shots and isn‘t aggressive on post ups marginalizes his height in scoring situations against similar build players

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