2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2)

[Bob8]

Obviously you don't watch Ayton play because he shoots. And he shoots well. He's not primarily a shooter though because he's smart enough to realize and the biggest, most athletic, strongest player on the floor he's better off playing in the paint.

If he’s so great why is he having zero impact on the team?

First off why you on my nuts? Secondly like I said great for a rookie usually means average for a player. Lastly I don't even like Ayton like that I thought Bagley should've been the first pick and I correctly predicted Arizona losing in the NCAA tournament in my bracket because I was 100% sure any team just had to attack Ayton for endless buckets even in college. I just don't play favorites like you're obviously doing for Luka. Y'all just won without him. The Suns can't win with all their players on the floor. Acting like Ayton's team isn't winning because he isn't as good as Doncic (who is dragging the Mavs to wins according to y'all) is hilarious when Dallas has the best bench in the league.

Also no **** his turnovers are high because he's the primary ball handler. And? Does that change the fact that Luka is on pace to end up top 10 all time in TOPG for rookies (and along with Jim Jackson and Ron Harper end up one of 3 rookies in the top 10 of TOPG with under 6 APG)? Again if a vet turned over the ball so much it'd be an issue. Since he's a rookie we overlook it and look at the positives which are very good. Great rookie, not a great player yet. I can easily overlook his issues knowing he'll improve on them, but that doesn't mean I'm going to ignore his current impact on the game and act like he's already got past those issues.

Went through this with Donovan last year where people were comparing Donovan (who was great for a rookie) to Simmons who was just great. Now Donovan is playing at the same level as last year and people are acting like it's disappointing because they spent the whole season convincing themselves he was already a star despite his clear and obvious flaws. Chill with acting like every poster that doesn't see him as a top 60 player already is on drugs.

Yes vets turning the ball over is a big issue in this league.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/player-stat/turnovers

I kinda hope he will go after Harden’s footsteps and become MVP and first in TO too.

[E-Balla]

If he’s so great why is he having zero impact on the team?

First off why you on my nuts? Secondly like I said great for a rookie usually means average for a player. Lastly I don't even like Ayton like that I thought Bagley should've been the first pick and I correctly predicted Arizona losing in the NCAA tournament in my bracket because I was 100% sure any team just had to attack Ayton for endless buckets even in college. I just don't play favorites like you're obviously doing for Luka. Y'all just won without him. The Suns can't win with all their players on the floor. Acting like Ayton's team isn't winning because he isn't as good as Doncic (who is dragging the Mavs to wins according to y'all) is hilarious when Dallas has the best bench in the league.

Also no **** his turnovers are high because he's the primary ball handler. And? Does that change the fact that Luka is on pace to end up top 10 all time in TOPG for rookies (and along with Jim Jackson and Ron Harper end up one of 3 rookies in the top 10 of TOPG with under 6 APG)? Again if a vet turned over the ball so much it'd be an issue. Since he's a rookie we overlook it and look at the positives which are very good. Great rookie, not a great player yet. I can easily overlook his issues knowing he'll improve on them, but that doesn't mean I'm going to ignore his current impact on the game and act like he's already got past those issues.

Went through this with Donovan last year where people were comparing Donovan (who was great for a rookie) to Simmons who was just great. Now Donovan is playing at the same level as last year and people are acting like it's disappointing because they spent the whole season convincing themselves he was already a star despite his clear and obvious flaws. Chill with acting like every poster that doesn't see him as a top 60 player already is on drugs.

Yes vets turning the ball over is a big issue in this league.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/player-stat/turnovers

I kinda hope he will go after Harden’s footsteps and become MVP and first in TO too.

Go ask around about how I feel about Harden's turnovers and how overrated he is but nice try. Also he doubles Doncic in assists.

[Mr B]

First off why you on my nuts? Secondly like I said great for a rookie usually means average for a player. Lastly I don't even like Ayton like that I thought Bagley should've been the first pick and I correctly predicted Arizona losing in the NCAA tournament in my bracket because I was 100% sure any team just had to attack Ayton for endless buckets even in college. I just don't play favorites like you're obviously doing for Luka. Y'all just won without him. The Suns can't win with all their players on the floor. Acting like Ayton's team isn't winning because he isn't as good as Doncic (who is dragging the Mavs to wins according to y'all) is hilarious when Dallas has the best bench in the league.

Also no **** his turnovers are high because he's the primary ball handler. And? Does that change the fact that Luka is on pace to end up top 10 all time in TOPG for rookies (and along with Jim Jackson and Ron Harper end up one of 3 rookies in the top 10 of TOPG with under 6 APG)? Again if a vet turned over the ball so much it'd be an issue. Since he's a rookie we overlook it and look at the positives which are very good. Great rookie, not a great player yet. I can easily overlook his issues knowing he'll improve on them, but that doesn't mean I'm going to ignore his current impact on the game and act like he's already got past those issues.

Went through this with Donovan last year where people were comparing Donovan (who was great for a rookie) to Simmons who was just great. Now Donovan is playing at the same level as last year and people are acting like it's disappointing because they spent the whole season convincing themselves he was already a star despite his clear and obvious flaws. Chill with acting like every poster that doesn't see him as a top 60 player already is on drugs.

Yes vets turning the ball over is a big issue in this league.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/player-stat/turnovers

I kinda hope he will go after Harden’s footsteps and become MVP and first in TO too.

Go ask around about how I feel about Harden's turnovers and how overrated he is but nice try. Also he doubles Doncic in assists.

So then he must blow Ayton completely out of the water then. Good to know!

[E-Balla]

Yes vets turning the ball over is a big issue in this league.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/player-stat/turnovers

I kinda hope he will go after Harden’s footsteps and become MVP and first in TO too.

Go ask around about how I feel about Harden's turnovers and how overrated he is but nice try. Also he doubles Doncic in assists.

So then he must blow Ayton completely out of the water then. Good to know!

What are you even talking about?

[Bob8]

First off why you on my nuts? Secondly like I said great for a rookie usually means average for a player. Lastly I don't even like Ayton like that I thought Bagley should've been the first pick and I correctly predicted Arizona losing in the NCAA tournament in my bracket because I was 100% sure any team just had to attack Ayton for endless buckets even in college. I just don't play favorites like you're obviously doing for Luka. Y'all just won without him. The Suns can't win with all their players on the floor. Acting like Ayton's team isn't winning because he isn't as good as Doncic (who is dragging the Mavs to wins according to y'all) is hilarious when Dallas has the best bench in the league.

Also no **** his turnovers are high because he's the primary ball handler. And? Does that change the fact that Luka is on pace to end up top 10 all time in TOPG for rookies (and along with Jim Jackson and Ron Harper end up one of 3 rookies in the top 10 of TOPG with under 6 APG)? Again if a vet turned over the ball so much it'd be an issue. Since he's a rookie we overlook it and look at the positives which are very good. Great rookie, not a great player yet. I can easily overlook his issues knowing he'll improve on them, but that doesn't mean I'm going to ignore his current impact on the game and act like he's already got past those issues.

Went through this with Donovan last year where people were comparing Donovan (who was great for a rookie) to Simmons who was just great. Now Donovan is playing at the same level as last year and people are acting like it's disappointing because they spent the whole season convincing themselves he was already a star despite his clear and obvious flaws. Chill with acting like every poster that doesn't see him as a top 60 player already is on drugs.

Yes vets turning the ball over is a big issue in this league.

https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/player-stat/turnovers

I kinda hope he will go after Harden’s footsteps and become MVP and first in TO too.

Go ask around about how I feel about Harden's turnovers and how overrated he is but nice try. Also he doubles Doncic in assists.

Did you see the whole list? In top10, you have 5 superstars. What have this people in common other then they’re more or less all stars? Big minutes, high usage and trying to do something more. They’re creating for themselves and others and normally they have more TO than others. Normal rookies (except Young), doesn’t have minutes, usage and aggressiveness in making certain plays that Luka has. Sure he did some stupid turnovers, traveling and similar, but that should be expected because he played under totally different rules in Europe. But the other part of turnovers, which are caused by his aggressiveness, is not only normal but good for his development.

[IllmaticHandler]

Im not even an Ayton fan I think he plays soft for a dude his size and athletic ability, but E Balla dont waste time with Bob8 he is a stan of the highest order. Dude came to the Knicks board posting Luka highlights last week, and I heard he is on numerous team boards doing that.

[Capn'O]

The consolations prizes are pretty good this year but Doncic looks like the biggest prize so far.

Doncic has been absolutely amazing but I’m not certain I’d take him over JJJ.
JJJ is the only rookie I’ll say that about, because Luka has amazed me.

That's fair. JJJ has been awesome. TBH, I was mostly thinking of Young/Bagley/Ayton. All showing a ton of potential but Doncic looks to be the best of that group.

[clyde21]

1. Jackson Jr.
2. Doncic
3. Ayton
4. Carter Jr.
5. Bamba

[nolang1]

The impact thing is low-hanging fruit for Ayton. The Mavs just beat the Clippers without Doncic. JJJ has a -14 net rating in minutes he doesn't play with Marc Gasol, the #1 ranked player in RPM.

[Forte IV]

Still so much SGA disrespect. I think it's Luka, JJJ,then SGA. Those three actually influence winning.

[Camintheway]

The impact thing is low-hanging fruit for Ayton. The Mavs just beat the Clippers without Doncic. JJJ has a -14 net rating in minutes he doesn't play with Marc Gasol, the #1 ranked player in RPM.

What a reach to validate your point.

[nolang1]

The impact thing is low-hanging fruit for Ayton. The Mavs just beat the Clippers without Doncic. JJJ has a -14 net rating in minutes he doesn't play with Marc Gasol, the #1 ranked player in RPM.

What a reach to validate your point.

How is that a reach? Gasol is obviously making a huge impact on the Grizzlies' W-L record and is miles ahead of Devin Booker or whoever. I would rather have JJJ than Ayton because he's younger by a year plus but it shows how blind you are that you would consider it a reach to point out the players around JJJ are much better than what the Phoenix Suns have. Maybe you just don't understand what net rating means (it's not raw plus-minus), because -14 is extremely low.

[Bob8]

The impact thing is low-hanging fruit for Ayton. The Mavs just beat the Clippers without Doncic. JJJ has a -14 net rating in minutes he doesn't play with Marc Gasol, the #1 ranked player in RPM.

What a reach to validate your point.

How is that a reach? Gasol is obviously making a huge impact on the Grizzlies' W-L record and is miles ahead of Devin Booker or whoever. I would rather have JJJ than Ayton because he's younger by a year plus but it shows how blind you are that you would consider it a reach to point out the players around JJJ are much better than what the Phoenix Suns have.

nobody denies that. but difference between 13-9 and 4-19 is huge too. I believe everybody, including Suns fans believed that #1 pick would have influence on their winning record. Instead they have 4 wins less than last year. so what Suns need to have 20+ wins? back2back first pick? Sure it’s not Ayton guilt for Suns being bad, but kinda shows what kind of influence has a C without D. in today’s Nba. Not much.

[nolang1]

What a reach to validate your point.

How is that a reach? Gasol is obviously making a huge impact on the Grizzlies' W-L record and is miles ahead of Devin Booker or whoever. I would rather have JJJ than Ayton because he's younger by a year plus but it shows how blind you are that you would consider it a reach to point out the players around JJJ are much better than what the Phoenix Suns have.

nobody denies that. but difference between 13-9 and 4-19 is huge too. I believe everybody, including Suns fans believed that #1 pick, would have influence their winning record. Instead they have 4 wins less than last year. so what Suns need to have 20+ wins? back2back first pick? Sure it’s not Ayton guilt for Suns being bad, but kinda showed what influence has a C without D in today’s Nba.

It (along with the performance of all these other rookies' teams when they're not playing) shows the type of impact a 19-year old player has on wins and losses in today's and yesterday's NBA, which is slim to none. Like I said, it's low-hanging fruit to point out that the guy on the crappiest team isn't making an impact when you can at least show that his team is performing much better when he's on the court than when he's not (which you currently can't for the other two).

[Bob8]

How is that a reach? Gasol is obviously making a huge impact on the Grizzlies' W-L record and is miles ahead of Devin Booker or whoever. I would rather have JJJ than Ayton because he's younger by a year plus but it shows how blind you are that you would consider it a reach to point out the players around JJJ are much better than what the Phoenix Suns have.

nobody denies that. but difference between 13-9 and 4-19 is huge too. I believe everybody, including Suns fans believed that #1 pick, would have influence their winning record. Instead they have 4 wins less than last year. so what Suns need to have 20+ wins? back2back first pick? Sure it’s not Ayton guilt for Suns being bad, but kinda showed what influence has a C without D in today’s Nba.

It (along with the performance of all these other rookies' teams when they're not playing) shows the type of impact a 19-year old player has on wins and losses in today's and yesterday's NBA, which is slim to none.

Luka not playing and Mavs winning1 game is a waterproof evidence that Mavs don’t need him? Brilliant.

[nolang1]

nobody denies that. but difference between 13-9 and 4-19 is huge too. I believe everybody, including Suns fans believed that #1 pick, would have influence their winning record. Instead they have 4 wins less than last year. so what Suns need to have 20+ wins? back2back first pick? Sure it’s not Ayton guilt for Suns being bad, but kinda showed what influence has a C without D in today’s Nba.

It (along with the performance of all these other rookies' teams when they're not playing) shows the type of impact a 19-year old player has on wins and losses in today's and yesterday's NBA, which is slim to none.

Luka not playing and Mavs winning1 game is a waterproof evidence that Mavs don’t need him? Brilliant.

You must not watch the Mavs much if you don't see that they've won plenty of games with their bench. You could look at on/off net rating as well (Memphis and Dallas are in the +5-6 range when their rookies aren't in the game whereas Phoenix is -18) if you were actually interested in learning and being informed rather than trolling.

[Bob8]

It (along with the performance of all these other rookies' teams when they're not playing) shows the type of impact a 19-year old player has on wins and losses in today's and yesterday's NBA, which is slim to none.

Luka not playing and Mavs winning1 game is a waterproof evidence that Mavs don’t need him? Brilliant.

You must not watch the Mavs much if you don't see that they've won plenty of games with their bench. You could look at on/off net rating as well if you were actually interested in learning rather than trolling.

Why should I even need to watch games if I have on/off net rating? I can see there how bench is beating starters of opponents, I can see 50 points blowup against Utah, I can see some garbage time against Houston and I for sure can see clutch shots from bench players.

Bench is playing great and is for sure part of Dallas success, but so are Luka, Jordan and other starters. JJJ is important part of 13 wins too. And I admit Ayton is important part of 4 wins of the Suns.

[clyde21]

It (along with the performance of all these other rookies' teams when they're not playing) shows the type of impact a 19-year old player has on wins and losses in today's and yesterday's NBA, which is slim to none.

Luka not playing and Mavs winning1 game is a waterproof evidence that Mavs don’t need him? Brilliant.

You must not watch the Mavs much if you don't see that they've won plenty of games with their bench.

Dude, you're the only the one that's played and watches basketball. I thought you knew this?

[big-shot-ROB]

Seeing how the season is unfolding, after Doncic and JJJ, who were probably the tier1 for prospects, what would you guys do?

Take a fyler on high.rish high-reward players such as:
Young
Bagley
Ayton

Or go the safe route and pick high-floor low-ceiling players:
WCJ
SGA
Mikal Bridges

[Archx]

Seeing how the season is unfolding, after Doncic and JJJ, who were probably the tier1 for prospects, what would you guys do?

Take a fyler on high.rish high-reward players such as:
Young
Bagley
Ayton

Or go the safe route and pick high-floor low-ceiling players:
WCJ
SGA
Mikal Bridges

Ayton, WCJ then Bagley.