MVP Discussion [19/20] [part II] - voting opened

[LoneyROY]

Giannis
Luka
Jokic

Clyde literally throwing fits any time he pulls up a Rockets boxscore these days.

Harden is always gonna have good box scores, don't think he's anywhere near being the most valuable player in the league tho, regardless of his overinflated box scores

sorry?

I know when you see his 38/8/6 on over 46 from the field and 39 from 3, it just makes you so mad. I know, I know. It's okay, bro.

[clyde21]

Clyde literally throwing fits any time he pulls up a Rockets boxscore these days.

Harden is always gonna have good box scores, don't think he's anywhere near being the most valuable player in the league tho, regardless of his overinflated box scores

sorry?

I know when you see his 38/8/6 on over 46 from the field and 39 from 3, it just makes you so mad. I know, I know. It's okay, bro.

not as mad as you when you realize Harden isn't as valuable as you thing he is.

[LoneyROY]

Harden is always gonna have good box scores, don't think he's anywhere near being the most valuable player in the league tho, regardless of his overinflated box scores

sorry?

I know when you see his 38/8/6 on over 46 from the field and 39 from 3, it just makes you so mad. I know, I know. It's okay, bro.

not as mad as you when you realize Harden isn't as valuable as you thing he is.

I know it's gotta be so frustrating to see a player you hate so much, just keep getting better and reach heights that no one you could have even fathomed a few years ago.

Hang in there, bro.

[Swish1906]

1) Giannis
2) Luka
3) Harden
Rest doesnt matter. Lebron and Davis cancel each other out. Both couldnt do crap as main guy last season. Kawhi sits out too much

Giannis still the clear cut MVP. Does the damage in 31min playing time and plays by far the best defense of the three. Luka plays almost 33min, Harden almost 38min. Thats why i have Luka above Harden (plus better defense too).

[PistolPeteJR]

1) Giannis
2) Luka
3) Harden
Rest doesnt matter. Lebron and Davis cancel each other out. Both couldnt do crap as main guy last season. Kawhi sits out too much

Giannis still the clear cut MVP. Does the damage in 31min playing time and plays by far the best defense of the three. Luka plays almost 33min, Harden almost 38min. Thats why i have Luka above Harden (plus better defense too).

This has to be one of the laziest arguments one can produce for this type of discussion. Contextualize, please, for the love of all things basketball. If you need help, start with things like supporting casts and injuries, and keep going.

[Dupp]

Harden only wishes he could have Towns level impact! Please ignore the fact wolves defense has been great without towns.


ToP FrEe MvP

[Fico92]

Giannis/Luka

LeBron



Harden

[limbo]

They been playing asstastic teams.

2x GSW (2nd worst offense in the league)
2x CLE (4th worst offense in the league)
1x NOP (19/30 Def Rtg)
1x SAC (21/30 Def Rtg)
1x BRK (24/30, playing like the worst team in the league recently)

Good job vs. POR and DEN, even though Jokic killed them.

That game where they limited the Bucks to 98.6 DRtg really boosted them a lot.

[Fico92]

I know when you see his 38/8/6 on over 46 from the field and 39 from 3, it just makes you so mad. I know, I know. It's okay, bro.

not as mad as you when you realize Harden isn't as valuable as you thing he is.

I know it's gotta be so frustrating to see a player you hate so much, just keep getting better and reach heights that no one you could have even fathomed a few years ago.

Hang in there, bro.

He's a Curry fan, I don't think he needs to worry about Harden catching up to him Curry had a legendary season that Harden could only dream of, hence the first ever unanimous MVP...and I hated Curry. I don't think the man hates Harden, considering Harden laid down for the Warriors couple years

Harden as a player is currently behind:
Kawhi
Curry
LeBron
Davis
Curry
KD
Giannis
Doncic

Top 10 player ain't bad though, I wish the Spurs had one currently

[Dupp]

I don’t really see any argument for luka over harden and hardens going to continue to get separation in the win column. Think there’s a decent gap separating harden and 3rd place (luka)

[BallerTalk]

1) Giannis
2) Luka
3) Harden
Rest doesnt matter. Lebron and Davis cancel each other out. Both couldnt do crap as main guy last season. Kawhi sits out too much

Giannis still the clear cut MVP. Does the damage in 31min playing time and plays by far the best defense of the three. Luka plays almost 33min, Harden almost 38min. Thats why i have Luka above Harden (plus better defense too).

Sorry but not by any method, standard or measure is Luka a better defensive player than Harden.
Whether basic or advanced stats (Steals, Blocks, Defensive WS, Defensive rating, etc) Harden bests Luka nearly across the board.

As to MVP:
Although some people still resist the notion, James Harden is currently the best player in the NBA.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-player-ratings/





Current Basketball Refence MVP tracker:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/mvp.html

[NY 567]

Giannis
Luka
Harden
Jokic
LeBron

[scrabbarista]

Anyone looking already knows Harden is 1st in pretty much every cumulative advanced stat besides RPM WINS (he's 2nd to LeBron).

But probably only those watching on a regular basis are aware that Harden is on pace to have the best offensive and the best defensive season of his career.

Via RPM, Harden as a defender:

'14 - negative
'15 - even
'16 - negative
'17 - negative
'18 - even
'19 - even
'20 - positive

It's actually been three seasons since he was a minus defender via this metric (maybe CP3 rubbed off on him...). This is bearing out in his On-Off numbers, too. His previous best as a Rocket was +8.6 (in 2015), and he's currently at +12.6.

[Colbinii]

Anyone looking already knows Harden is 1st in pretty much every cumulative advanced stat besides RPM WINS (he's 2nd to LeBron).

But probably only those watching on a regular basis are aware that Harden is on pace to have the best offensive and the best defensive season of his career.

Via RPM, Harden as a defender:

'14 - negative
'15 - even
'16 - negative
'17 - negative
'18 - even
'19 - even
'20 - positive

It's actually been three seasons since he was a minus defender via this metric (maybe CP3 rubbed off on him...). This is bearing out in his On-Off numbers, too. His previous best as a Rocket was +8.6 (in 2015), and he's currently at +12.6.

Greatness is polarizing.

Many what I would consider "Good" Posters on the PC Board are failing to grasp the Greatness of Harden and falling into narrative traps or are underselling him due to his play style. It is a shame people can't separate style from substance but most of those same people would have also thought Maravich was one of the best players ever had they seen him live [Fun Fact: He wasn't].

I've moved past engaging with people who can't put aside their emotions in relation with Harden, which happens to be a large portion of this forum. It has resulted in me spending more time on other hobbies though so I can't say I'm upset spending less time here.

[LoneyROY]

not as mad as you when you realize Harden isn't as valuable as you thing he is.

I know it's gotta be so frustrating to see a player you hate so much, just keep getting better and reach heights that no one you could have even fathomed a few years ago.

Hang in there, bro.

He's a Curry fan, I don't think he needs to worry about Harden catching up to him Curry had a legendary season that Harden could only dream of, hence the first ever unanimous MVP...and I hated Curry. I don't think the man hates Harden, considering Harden laid down for the Warriors couple years

Harden as a player is currently behind:
Kawhi
Curry
LeBron
Davis
Curry
KD
Giannis
Doncic

Top 10 player ain't bad though, I wish the Spurs had one currently

What a meltdown down of a post.

[Colbinii]

I know it's gotta be so frustrating to see a player you hate so much, just keep getting better and reach heights that no one you could have even fathomed a few years ago.

Hang in there, bro.

He's a Curry fan, I don't think he needs to worry about Harden catching up to him Curry had a legendary season that Harden could only dream of, hence the first ever unanimous MVP...and I hated Curry. I don't think the man hates Harden, considering Harden laid down for the Warriors couple years

Harden as a player is currently behind:
Kawhi
Curry
LeBron
Davis
Curry
KD
Giannis
Doncic

Top 10 player ain't bad though, I wish the Spurs had one currently

What a meltdown down of a post.

Harden must have been partying with his sister.

[Fico92]

I know it's gotta be so frustrating to see a player you hate so much, just keep getting better and reach heights that no one you could have even fathomed a few years ago.

Hang in there, bro.

He's a Curry fan, I don't think he needs to worry about Harden catching up to him Curry had a legendary season that Harden could only dream of, hence the first ever unanimous MVP...and I hated Curry. I don't think the man hates Harden, considering Harden laid down for the Warriors couple years

Harden as a player is currently behind:
Kawhi
Curry
LeBron
Davis
Curry
KD
Giannis
Doncic

Top 10 player ain't bad though, I wish the Spurs had one currently

What a meltdown down of a post.

Truth hurts huh?

[Yuri36]

I don’t really see any argument for luka over harden and hardens going to continue to get separation in the win column. Think there’s a decent gap separating harden and 3rd place (luka)

Well, let's see:
-much better passer (9 assists per game against 7.6 in almost 5 mins per game less played and with overall weaker teammates)
-far far better rebounder
-better efficient FG shooter and not that far in term of scoring if you consider Harden has played almost 5 more minutes per game than Luka (I understand the tiredness factor but still....and Luka is much younger than Harden, don't forget)
-and last but not the least, similar team success so far with much less help (Houston was tipped for getting one of the best records in west at beginning of this season whereas Dallas was barely making the POs for majority of the experts or members of this forum....ask yourself why)

So you see, just try a little bit and you can easily find a few arguments

[LoneyROY]

He's a Curry fan, I don't think he needs to worry about Harden catching up to him Curry had a legendary season that Harden could only dream of, hence the first ever unanimous MVP...and I hated Curry. I don't think the man hates Harden, considering Harden laid down for the Warriors couple years

Harden as a player is currently behind:
Kawhi
Curry
LeBron
Davis
Curry
KD
Giannis
Doncic

Top 10 player ain't bad though, I wish the Spurs had one currently

What a meltdown down of a post.

Truth hurts huh?

If only your version of reality was even close to the truth, bud.

[LoneyROY]

I don’t really see any argument for luka over harden and hardens going to continue to get separation in the win column. Think there’s a decent gap separating harden and 3rd place (luka)

Well, let's see:
-much better passer (9 assists per game against 7.6 in almost 5 mins per game less played and with overall weaker teammates)
-far far better rebounder
-better efficient FG shooter and not that far in term of scoring if you consider Harden has played almost 5 more minutes per game than Luka (I understand the tiredness factor but still....and Luka is much younger than Harden, don't forget)
-and last but not the least, similar team success so far with much less help (Houston was tipped for getting one of the best records in west at beginning of this season whereas Dallas was barely making the POs for majority of the experts or members of this forum....ask yourself why)

So you see, just try a little bit and you can easily find a few arguments

Luka is not more efficient than Harden.

Harden has a 65 TS percentage, Luka's 61 percent. Harden's shooting 39 percent from 3, Luka's shooting 33 percent from 3.