Rapinoe vs Green... who you got?

[homecourtloss]

And there is a good reason not nearly as much money is invested into female sports. Its because little girls (generally) aren't keen on competitive competition as much as boys are. This isn't some evil conspiracy plan perpetrated over centuries of human civilization. Boys and girls are just different. Not just from a physical perspective but also a characteristic point of view.

Wow. This is some CLASSIC neanderthal right here. Congratulations.

I guess you also think that girls aren't well represented in areas like investments and engineering...because, you know, girls aren't that good with "math and science" stuff - right?

There are times I read posts on the GB and laugh at the stupidity...and then there are times where I read takes like this and have real concern for the world that my two daughters will enter - because of the prehistoric thinking of posts like this.

You want to believe something because it fits the Just World Fallacy. Things SHOULD be equal but they’re not.

In general, no, girls aren’t as good as men at “math and science stuff” relative to men when considering competitive fields.

Coding competitions, science Olympiads, math olympiads are predominantly male. The winners are almost exclusively men. Tech patents that aren’t group based are overwhelmingly male dominated.

Let’s say that natural ability in these areas was distributed evenly between men and women. Now let’s say that “sexism” prevented women from opportunities, chipped away confidence, etc. Fair. Ok. But if ability was distributed evenly between men and women, wouldn’t there be a higher percentage of coding champions, math Olympiad champions (which is basically zero), etc.? Let’s say outside forces suppressed women — wouldn’t there still be some women chess grandmasters competing with men? How can there basically be only one ever?Women math Olympiads? There are families in which girls are given every opportunity and every encouragement and have every resource, but at the highest levels in competitions with men, they cannot win. If ability in these areas is equally distributed, then even with oppression and suppression you’d see more than 1% champions in these areas be women.

Lastly, in highly supposedly liberally egalitarian and free societies (North/West Europe, Canada, US), women who have had equal opportunity at education, have more valedictorians, go to college at higher rates, CHOOSE not to go into science, engineering, math at higher rates than women from supposedly “less free” societies such as Iran, India, China, etc., etc. Is this all indoctrination? If ability were distributed evenly, wouldn’t the women who DO go into science and engineering and programming develop their own languages, operating systems, win Fields medals, etc?

[Ducklett]

To my understanding the ATP offered the Women tennis players to do some tournaments with mixed draws so they could earn the pay of the men's bracket. All of them declined the offer.

[LakersLegacy]

Female athletes could make some short indie films to generate more interest.

They eventually will get their MagicVBird, then their Jordan, then their Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, LeBron...

Gianna Bryant really was going to move the WNBA forward in terms of popularity. Someone else will come along. But they a story teller to gain more popularity which leads to more advertising dollars.

If the corporations won’t pay for it, then hire a film crew and make it anyway

[antonac]

Women's tennis is about as far from finesse as you can get. They just hit it back as hard as they can and hope the other player is the first one to sail one 20 feet beyond the baseline.
There's nothing except stereotypes supporting the notion that men's tennis is about power and women's tennis is about skill and touch. It's the opposite.

Hmm, there's a discussion to be had here but you're oversimplifying.

About 20 years ago the men's game was getting crippled by power and the women's game was more interesting. This was caused by racket technology which made women more powerful but made men too powerful. You were seeing guys win on grass who couldn't do anything except serve.

2 things changed that as I see it: 1) They changed the surfaces to slow down the game (except on clay, which was already slow as molasses), and 2) the next generation of players learned to be able to react fast enough to return those super-fast shots.

The result then is that while power in real ways still rules the men's game, the issues of "I only serve" dominance went away.

At that point the fact that there are just more top level male players than female players allowed greater physical dominance at the top by someone like Serena than we've seen from someone on the men's side.

I bring this up every time tennis is dragged in but I do so because its a hugely important point that almost seems to be hushed up, they changed the weight of the balls. It wasn't external racket companies, or tournament organisers (who have a say in how their courts are maintained) it was the ATP making a change that would harm the women's game in order to make the mens game more entertaining.

[God Squad]

No one watches female sports for the most part TBH other than Tennis. That's why they don't get paid the same. This is just a hunch, but I bet majority here couldn't name 10 current WNBA players.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

the thing is that women can do the same things men do, in tennis.
the ball is slower but not really that much from a spectator standpoint (much slower on court, though, to the point there would be no match).
in basketball it's just night and day, two different sports.

They can't but I think what you might be trying to suggest is that it would appear that way more so in tennis than in basketball. I think the TV angle does a lot in making the women's game look not nearly as far in quality as the men's as it really is. This is why you will have some people who actually think Serena is the GOAT tennis player when they don't realize that in her prime, she wouldn't crack the top-6-700 on the men's and that's probably being generous.

of course, when I say that they "can do the same things" I don't mean they would be competitive, but that they are actually showing very similar technical moves with just less power and mobility, something that doesn't affect dramatically the viewing experience.
Arguably it makes it better, allowing more variety in the playstyle.
From a spectator standpoint, it's the same sport as the key wow factors, providing most of the entertainment value are the same.
For basketball it's not the same, the explosiveness of the moves, the verticality, the physicality of the game is all but lost.
This is something that penalizes the female version of all contact sports, in my view, but in basketball the vertical component is so dominant that the experience gets ruined.
Volleyball is another sport that is very enjoyable in the female version as well, but they've been smart enough to lower the net or it would give the same feeling as basketball.

[GamecockFan1024]

Green. Rapinoe is a crybaby and is more concerned with getting national attention by kneeling during the national anthem. Women don't automatically deserve the same salary as men in a revenue driven industry. I had someone on Facebook arguing that Sue Bird deserves the same salary as Lebron James because she's been in the WNBA for just as long and is also a World Champion. Can't argue with ignorance.

[mixerball]

women in tennis, which people actually watch, get paid more than men.

[JediMasterRevan]

If you listen to what each of them actually said, she is in the right. But mind you that's way different from what this discussion will boil down to which is women's sports suck and don't generate revenue so shut up.

But I hope some people will take the time to actually read the quotes before their usual lazy commentary. Several female athletes actually engaged with him in very meaningful ways to acknowledge some of what he said while correcting him on the areas he missed on.

It spurred a good dialogue, but we won't have it here sadly.

Didnt the womens team turn down the EXACT SAME deal that the mens team was offered?

And in turn they took the deal they currently have, which pays them alot of benefits?
Like guaranteed pay (about 100K a year)
Insurances
Pregnancy pay
child care coverage
Severance Pay
Multiple other benefits and bonuses

"The women chose to have a guaranteed salary of up to $172,500 US per year, and in addition to this salary, they earn game and tournament bonuses, and receive a robust package of benefits. While the players on our men's national team can earn larger bonuses, they take more risk as they do not receive any guaranteed money or benefits within their pay-for-play contract structure"

Also the world cup money does not come from US soccer, instead it comes from Fifa? I believe and the difference in what they offer to the prize pool is 450ish million of men compared to 80ish million for women.

But they womens team wants the mens salary, which is more because they do not have any bonuses or benefits and comes from a larger prize pool not offered by us soccer, and still keep all their benefits.

[BK_2020]

women in tennis, which people actually watch, get paid more than men.

Women's tennis events get horrible attendance, and even in the four major tournaments women's matches have practically zero attendance until the semis or unless someone like Serena's playing. Women's events outside of the majors pay significantly less than men's.

[snaquille oatmeal]

Shoould male Supermodels, who no one recognize get the same money as the female Supermodels who have a way bigger reach and following like Adriana Lima etc. ?

They get paid way less, which bothers no one and rightfully so. If your league makes way less money, then its obvious that there would be no equal pay

You are misunderstanding the concept.
Say a male team brings in 100 mil in profits, the players get 10 mil in salary. Then say a female team brings in 50 mil in profits logic would dictate that the players should get 5 mil in salary. That is not what is happening. The females players are getting half a mil and that is what is wrong with the system.

the key word here is profit.
are we clear we are not talking about the WNBA?

Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

My bad I meant revenue (as in the amount of money that is collected for making games happen, but I was also using generalized figures I pulled out of my butt to make it easier to understand) and I was talking about woman’s soccer versus men’s soccer on the national teams.

[Harry Garris]

If you listen to what each of them actually said, she is in the right. But mind you that's way different from what this discussion will boil down to which is women's sports suck and don't generate revenue so shut up.

But I hope some people will take the time to actually read the quotes before their usual lazy commentary. Several female athletes actually engaged with him in very meaningful ways to acknowledge some of what he said while correcting him on the areas he missed on.

It spurred a good dialogue, but we won't have it here sadly.

They're both kind of right. Draymond was addressing the futility of just complaining over wages and not holistically building up the brand of women's soccer so that you can get to the point where the revenue justifies higher wages. Rapinoe was saying that's what she's been advocating for all along and Draymond is ignorant. Which she herself absolutely has been doing, but unfortunately many of the people demanding equal pay for women's sports have not bothered to take the effort to fully understand the situation and do just say ignorant things.

Draymond made a mistake in not acknowledging the members of the USWNT who have made informed arguments in supporting the financial growth of the sport, and Megan should have realized that just because she knows what she's talking about doesn't mean that everyone who wants to see equality of pay in sports does.

[Badonkadonk]

SHOCKED that Draymond Green would have the more popular opinion on a hoops forum.

Rapinoe was right in that Green was completely oblivious to the action that has already been tried (and is even current). He was basically talking out of his ass without knowledge.

[ItsDanger]

The market dictates the price. Economics 101 used to be offered in high school. Maybe Rapinoe should have at least taken it at college or in her spare time. She is proposing a system that determines price based on social aspects. Where have we seen this before?

[Rainwater]

If you listen to what each of them actually said, she is in the right. But mind you that's way different from what this discussion will boil down to which is women's sports suck and don't generate revenue so shut up.

But I hope some people will take the time to actually read the quotes before their usual lazy commentary. Several female athletes actually engaged with him in very meaningful ways to acknowledge some of what he said while correcting him on the areas he missed on.

It spurred a good dialogue, but we won't have it here sadly.

They're both kind of right. Draymond was addressing the futility of just complaining over wages and not holistically building up the brand of women's soccer so that you can get to the point where the revenue justifies higher wages. Rapinoe was saying that's what she's been advocating for all along and Draymond is ignorant. Which she herself absolutely has been doing, but unfortunately many of the people demanding equal pay for women's sports have not bothered to take the effort to fully understand the situation and do just say ignorant things.

Draymond made a mistake in not acknowledging the members of the USWNT who have made informed arguments in supporting the financial growth of the sport, and Megan should have realized that just because she knows what she's talking about doesn't mean that everyone who wants to see equality of pay in sports does.

I read the tweets and they both made some good points. Green was listing ways Women's USA soccer can raise attention and therefore revenue for women's soccer; however, I believe Green is unaware of what team usa has already done to gain the necessary attention. And while I partially agree with Megan that the reason why women's soccer hasn't gotten the funding it deserves is because of male dominated society, I do believe just because you throw money at something doesn't mean that it is just going to grow. Key example is the WNBA. At some point the product has to draw revenue it self. But I just hate how this makes Green look like a woman hater, the debate is truly about how to get attention for women's soccer. They are both on the same side.

[Rainwater]

Megan Rapinoe is mad because Draymond basically told her and other female athletes to shut up and dribble....

Actually, the women are advocating for equal pay and investment for female athletes and Draymond has repeatedly responded that they should stop complaining.

What do you think? Is rapinoe and other female athletes advocating for simular pay and invest right or is Draymond right and the market of supply and demand should decide?

Snaquille Oatmeal would like for me to revise my OP to better relate the info between Green and Rapinoe. Instead of that I'll just add his take to my OP

"You should definitely revise your post and add that the reason why Meghan is clapping back at Green is because Green is saying that he is tired of women in sports complaining about equal pay AND they should do X, Y, and Z instead and Meghan is replying by educating Green on the fact that they have already been doing X, Y, and Z and they get ignored and dismissed and uses his post as an example."

After reading the tweets I think you are a trash poster for making Draymond look like woman hater. They were basically arguing how to make women's soccer better. They are on the same side.

[Harry Garris]

If you listen to what each of them actually said, she is in the right. But mind you that's way different from what this discussion will boil down to which is women's sports suck and don't generate revenue so shut up.

But I hope some people will take the time to actually read the quotes before their usual lazy commentary. Several female athletes actually engaged with him in very meaningful ways to acknowledge some of what he said while correcting him on the areas he missed on.

It spurred a good dialogue, but we won't have it here sadly.

They're both kind of right. Draymond was addressing the futility of just complaining over wages and not holistically building up the brand of women's soccer so that you can get to the point where the revenue justifies higher wages. Rapinoe was saying that's what she's been advocating for all along and Draymond is ignorant. Which she herself absolutely has been doing, but unfortunately many of the people demanding equal pay for women's sports have not bothered to take the effort to fully understand the situation and do just say ignorant things.

Draymond made a mistake in not acknowledging the members of the USWNT who have made informed arguments in supporting the financial growth of the sport, and Megan should have realized that just because she knows what she's talking about doesn't mean that everyone who wants to see equality of pay in sports does.

I read the tweets and they both made some good points. Green was listing ways Women's USA soccer can raise attention and therefore revenue for women's soccer; however, I believe Green is unaware of what team usa has done to gain the attention. And while I partial agree with Megan that the reason why women's soccer has gotten the funding it deserves is because of male dominated society, I do believe just because you throw money at something doesn't mean that it is just going to grow. Key example is the WNBA. At some point the product has to draw revenue it self. But I just hate how this makes Green look like a woman hater, the debate is truly about how to get attention for women's soccer. They are both on the same side.

Yeah if we want sustainable viewership for women's sports we can't do some half assed thing where we just throw extra money at them for a few years. There needs to be a cultivation of fandom for the sports, and I still that starts with targeting young people and developing strategies to get them interested in watching women's soccer or basketball. And then you also have to be patient and realize that it isn't going to change overnight, we probably need a few generations of slowly growing fans for women's sports.

[Rainwater]

They're both kind of right. Draymond was addressing the futility of just complaining over wages and not holistically building up the brand of women's soccer so that you can get to the point where the revenue justifies higher wages. Rapinoe was saying that's what she's been advocating for all along and Draymond is ignorant. Which she herself absolutely has been doing, but unfortunately many of the people demanding equal pay for women's sports have not bothered to take the effort to fully understand the situation and do just say ignorant things.

Draymond made a mistake in not acknowledging the members of the USWNT who have made informed arguments in supporting the financial growth of the sport, and Megan should have realized that just because she knows what she's talking about doesn't mean that everyone who wants to see equality of pay in sports does.

I read the tweets and they both made some good points. Green was listing ways Women's USA soccer can raise attention and therefore revenue for women's soccer; however, I believe Green is unaware of what team usa has done to gain the attention. And while I partial agree with Megan that the reason why women's soccer has gotten the funding it deserves is because of male dominated society, I do believe just because you throw money at something doesn't mean that it is just going to grow. Key example is the WNBA. At some point the product has to draw revenue it self. But I just hate how this makes Green look like a woman hater, the debate is truly about how to get attention for women's soccer. They are both on the same side.

Yeah if we want sustainable viewership for women's sports we can't do some half assed thing where we just throw extra money at them for a few years. There needs to be a cultivation of fandom for the sports, and I still that starts with targeting young people and developing strategies to get them interested in watching women's soccer or basketball. And then you also have to be patient and realize that it isn't going to change overnight, we probably need a few generations of slowly growing fans for women's sports.

You are absolutely correct. The fandom is the key for any product to grow and after I posted I was literally thinking about how women's soccer is still in it's infancy stage and still needs time to grow. Anyway, like everything this is a far more nuanced conversation than people think.

[soxfan2003]

The big picture is just more men (and women) prefer to watch men's sports over women's sports. There are some exceptions like women's gymnastics but in general what I stated still holds.

There are various factors involved here and only some of them can be changed.
Biologically men on average are just better athletes. Blame nature.

Many more men than women take sports very seriously at a young age. Some of this is society influencing them but a lot of this is just personnel preferences. If you grew up practicing and playing a lot of sports, you may end up watching them more.

Furthermore, Rapinoe with her attitude damaged women's soccer in the USA at least. Michael Jordan got the fact that Republicans bought sneakers (and tickets) as well. Rapinoe with her attitude is willing to upset nearly half the nation. This may work for her political goals but it wasn't a way to expand the popularity of women's soccer among people that were on the fence.

That is the last thing American women's soccer needs to break through to continue to expand its audience.

Imagine a different scenario in which, Rapinoe kept her politics to herself or at least let her positions be known in a more constructive manner.

[tbhawksfan1]

Megan Rapinoe is mad because Draymond basically told her and other female athletes to shut up and dribble....

Actually, the women are advocating for equal pay and investment for female athletes and Draymond has repeatedly responded that they should stop complaining.

What do you think? Is rapinoe and other female athletes advocating for simular pay and invest right or is Draymond right and the market of supply and demand should decide?

Snaquille Oatmeal would like for me to revise my OP to better relate the info between Green and Rapinoe. Instead of that I'll just add his take to my OP

"You should definitely revise your post and add that the reason why Meghan is clapping back at Green is because Green is saying that he is tired of women in sports complaining about equal pay AND they should do X, Y, and Z instead and Meghan is replying by educating Green on the fact that they have already been doing X, Y, and Z and they get ignored and dismissed and uses his post as an example."

After reading the tweets I think you are a trash poster for making Draymond look like woman hater. They were basically arguing how to make women's soccer better. They are on the same side.

Trash poster hunh?
I"m not trying to make Dray look like anything. Read an article, started a thread.
Don't worry though; I'll make no effort to change your mind