Raps will make the playoffs, and 2nd round, if healthy

[CoachD]

As a Raptor fan.... I SO want the Bulls in the first round.

They don't have anyone to match up with Siakam, Barnes or OG.

They going to put Vuc on Pascal?? I've seen that movie before.

Demar on OG? OG can give him the business on both ends.

Demar has ALWAYS struggled against bigger stronger players in the playoffs. Joe Johnson, Paul George, LeBron, Middleton ... and on and on.

OG is a better defender than all of those guys and his offensive game is a combo of bully ball inside, making open shots and timely passes to wide open players.

I think Barnes would make Lavine miserable with his length.

[TheLand13]

Trent JR is absolutely a great defender, and it’s hilarious that people are trying to use stats to disprove that.

This must be sarcasm but GTJ has been a negative defender his entire career.

Watch a single Raptors game from this season and tell me with a straight face that he isn't a great defender. Again, this is why I don't like using the stats argument when it pertains to defense because half the time it isn't even accurate.

Three players in the starting lineup have championship rings.

Again, the 2 biggest contributors for said championship are gone.

It's not even the fact that those two are gone (I'm assuming you're referring to Kawhi and Lowry, but that second player could just as easily be Marc Gasol). They don't have the depth that the 2019 Raptors team had. Outside of Leonard, Lowry and Siakam, their three best players by far, you still had Marc Gasol, Fred VanVleet, Danny Green, Serge Ibaka, and Norman Powell (and Jeremy Lin for the memes). That team had a legitimate championship roster, from top to bottom. They had all their positions covered in the starting five and had the depth to cover it. They had all their bases covered. This current Raptors team just doesn't have that. They are severely lacking in rim protection which limits their defensive potential. Outside of OG, they don't really have any bench depth.

Not sure what your point is. Regular season is very different to the playoffs. Demar was so bad in the playoffs that he got benched in the 4th quarter of an elimination game. Also, I am a fan of Demar and I'm super happy to see him have success this year in Chicago. But I know his limitations. He's gotten better in some areas as a player but his biggest weaknesses still remain his biggest weaknesses.

Vucevic has been a poor playoff performer and isn't much of a defender. Lavine isn't a defensive player. Who else do they have?

Sure Chicago will be the favourites. But I'm telling you right now, they wouldn't want to face the Raptors in the 1st round if they had a choice. Three players in the starting lineup have championship rings.

The big difference here is that Demar isn't the number one option. Zach Lavine would be. And this is on top of having Vucevic and Ball on the team too. Sometimes that change of scenery is what you need most to thrive in the playoffs. For some guys that doesn't seem to matter (*cough* Harden). But you can't sit there with a straight face and tell me Curry didn't benefit mightily from being Durant's second option on the Warriors.

The Bulls definitely have a lot to prove and I personally don't see them making it out of the East. But if they end up facing the Raptors in the playoffs, I'm taking the Bulls in a heartbeat.

[Cubbies2120]

As a Raptor fan.... I SO want the Bulls in the first round.

They don't have anyone to match up with Siakam, Barnes or OG.

They going to put Vuc on Pascal?? I've seen that movie before.

Demar on OG? OG can give him the business on both ends.

Demar has ALWAYS struggled against bigger stronger players in the playoffs. Joe Johnson, Paul George, LeBron, Middleton ... and on and on.

OG is a better defender than all of those guys and his offensive game is a combo of bully ball inside, making open shots and timely passes to wide open players.

I think Barnes would make Lavine miserable with his length.

OG is a better defender than Prime PG and Prime LeBron? That's kinda news to me...

LeBron finished 2nd in DPOY voting twice, and PG just as recently as 2019 finished top 3...

[CoachD]

As a Raptor fan.... I SO want the Bulls in the first round.

They don't have anyone to match up with Siakam, Barnes or OG.

They going to put Vuc on Pascal?? I've seen that movie before.

Demar on OG? OG can give him the business on both ends.

Demar has ALWAYS struggled against bigger stronger players in the playoffs. Joe Johnson, Paul George, LeBron, Middleton ... and on and on.

OG is a better defender than all of those guys and his offensive game is a combo of bully ball inside, making open shots and timely passes to wide open players.

I think Barnes would make Lavine miserable with his length.

OG is a better defender than Prime PG and Prime LeBron? That's kinda news to me...

LeBron finished 2nd in DPOY voting twice, and PG just as recently as 2019 finished top 3...

Yes. He is.

[Los_29]

Trent JR is absolutely a great defender, and it’s hilarious that people are trying to use stats to disprove that.

This must be sarcasm but GTJ has been a negative defender his entire career.

Watch a single Raptors game from this season and tell me with a straight face that he isn't a great defender. Again, this is why I don't like using the stats argument when it pertains to defense because half the time it isn't even accurate.

Three players in the starting lineup have championship rings.

Again, the 2 biggest contributors for said championship are gone.

It's not even the fact that those two are gone (I'm assuming you're referring to Kawhi and Lowry, but that second player could just as easily be Marc Gasol). They don't have the depth that the 2019 Raptors team had. Outside of Leonard, Lowry and Siakam, their three best players by far, you still had Marc Gasol, Fred VanVleet, Danny Green, Serge Ibaka, and Norman Powell (and Jeremy Lin for the memes). That team had a legitimate championship roster, from top to bottom. They had all their positions covered in the starting five and had the depth to cover it. They had all their bases covered. This current Raptors team just doesn't have that. They are severely lacking in rim protection which limits their defensive potential. Outside of OG, they don't really have any bench depth.

Not sure what your point is. Regular season is very different to the playoffs. Demar was so bad in the playoffs that he got benched in the 4th quarter of an elimination game. Also, I am a fan of Demar and I'm super happy to see him have success this year in Chicago. But I know his limitations. He's gotten better in some areas as a player but his biggest weaknesses still remain his biggest weaknesses.

Vucevic has been a poor playoff performer and isn't much of a defender. Lavine isn't a defensive player. Who else do they have?

Sure Chicago will be the favourites. But I'm telling you right now, they wouldn't want to face the Raptors in the 1st round if they had a choice. Three players in the starting lineup have championship rings.

The big difference here is that Demar isn't the number one option. Zach Lavine would be. And this is on top of having Vucevic and Ball on the team too. Sometimes that change of scenery is what you need most to thrive in the playoffs. For some guys that doesn't seem to matter (*cough* Harden). But you can't sit there with a straight face and tell me Curry didn't benefit mightily from being Durant's second option on the Warriors.

The Bulls definitely have a lot to prove and I personally don't see them making it out of the East. But if they end up facing the Raptors in the playoffs, I'm taking the Bulls in a heartbeat.

OG starts, he doesn't come off the bench. And no one is saying they are going to win a championship, we are saying that they have a chance to beat the Bulls who have no playoff experience and a historically bad playoff performer as their best player. Vucevic is also a poor playoff performer who has never gotten out of the first round and Ball has never made the playoffs. Lavine as well. It's their personnel. They just simply do not have a team constructed to do well in the playoffs.

[Tacoma]

Not sure what your point is. Regular season is very different to the playoffs. Demar was so bad in the playoffs that he got benched in the 4th quarter of an elimination game. Also, I am a fan of Demar and I'm super happy to see him have success this year in Chicago. But I know his limitations. He's gotten better in some areas as a player but his biggest weaknesses still remain his biggest weaknesses.

Vucevic has been a poor playoff performer and isn't much of a defender. Lavine isn't a defensive player. Who else do they have?

Sure Chicago will be the favourites. But I'm telling you right now, they wouldn't want to face the Raptors in the 1st round if they had a choice. Three players in the starting lineup have championship rings.

The big difference here is that Demar isn't the number one option. Zach Lavine would be. And this is on top of having Vucevic and Ball on the team too. Sometimes that change of scenery is what you need most to thrive in the playoffs. For some guys that doesn't seem to matter (*cough* Harden). But you can't sit there with a straight face and tell me Curry didn't benefit mightily from being Durant's second option on the Warriors.

The Bulls definitely have a lot to prove and I personally don't see them making it out of the East. But if they end up facing the Raptors in the playoffs, I'm taking the Bulls in a heartbeat.

Between DeRozan & LeVine, they have virtually identical #games played, min played and scoring avg, with DeRozan ahead by a hair. Thus I disagree that LaVine is the #1 option and I think a more accurate reflection is DeRozan is 1A and LaVine is 1B. If the game is on the line in the dying seconds, the ball likely goes to DeRozan who has played this role and he already has 2 buzzer beaters.

That said, although I understand concerns re DeRozan's playoff struggles, he's also not the same player he was in Toronto. His last playoff series was with the Spurs and he played well. I think how far Chicago goes is going to depend on how DeRozan performs. Chicago, if they want to go far in the playoffs, cannot afford DeRozan to struggle mightily as he largely had in Toronto.

[Jabroni Lames]

Opposing teams are now sending their G-League squads to Toronto to avoid their rotation players getting stranded in Canada due to Covid quarantine. Raptors could go undefeated at home for the remainder of the regular season. What happens in the playoffs, though? Do opposing teams still keep their best players out of Canada?

[TheLand13]

As a Raptor fan.... I SO want the Bulls in the first round.

They don't have anyone to match up with Siakam, Barnes or OG.

They going to put Vuc on Pascal?? I've seen that movie before.

Demar on OG? OG can give him the business on both ends.

Demar has ALWAYS struggled against bigger stronger players in the playoffs. Joe Johnson, Paul George, LeBron, Middleton ... and on and on.

OG is a better defender than all of those guys and his offensive game is a combo of bully ball inside, making open shots and timely passes to wide open players.

I think Barnes would make Lavine miserable with his length.

OG is a better defender than Prime PG and Prime LeBron? That's kinda news to me...

LeBron finished 2nd in DPOY voting twice, and PG just as recently as 2019 finished top 3...

Yes. He is.

Okay, Trent JR being a great defensive player is a take I’m totally on board with. But OG being a better defender than prime LeBron and PG? No. He is definitely great, but I think you’re forgetting how good LeBron and George were at that end in their primes.

As the post you quote here points out, LeBron was also second in DOPY voting twice (and should’ve won the award in 2013). OG has some work to do before he reaches that level. But he’s getting there.

[yoyoboy]

As a Raptor fan.... I SO want the Bulls in the first round.

They don't have anyone to match up with Siakam, Barnes or OG.

They going to put Vuc on Pascal?? I've seen that movie before.

Demar on OG? OG can give him the business on both ends.

Demar has ALWAYS struggled against bigger stronger players in the playoffs. Joe Johnson, Paul George, LeBron, Middleton ... and on and on.

OG is a better defender than all of those guys and his offensive game is a combo of bully ball inside, making open shots and timely passes to wide open players.

I think Barnes would make Lavine miserable with his length.

OG is a better defender than Prime PG and Prime LeBron? That's kinda news to me...

LeBron finished 2nd in DPOY voting twice, and PG just as recently as 2019 finished top 3...

Yes. He is.

Absolutely laughable. Playing the Raptors, OG has never stuck out as a monstrous defender to me or even an elite one. D-RAPM, D-LEBRON, and Defensive RAPTOR all paint him as quite literally a negative defender. He’s just barely positive in Defensive EPM. And you’re over here saying he’s DPOY level.

[CoachD]

OG is a better defender than Prime PG and Prime LeBron? That's kinda news to me...

LeBron finished 2nd in DPOY voting twice, and PG just as recently as 2019 finished top 3...

Yes. He is.

Absolutely laughable. Playing the Raptors, OG has never stuck out as a monstrous defender to me or even an elite one. D-RAPM, D-LEBRON, and Defensive RAPTOR all paint him as quite literally a negative defender. He’s just barely positive in Defensive EPM. And you’re over here saying he’s DPOY level.

Watch the games.

[LoveMyRaps]

OG is a better defender than Prime PG and Prime LeBron? That's kinda news to me...

LeBron finished 2nd in DPOY voting twice, and PG just as recently as 2019 finished top 3...

Yes. He is.

Absolutely laughable. Playing the Raptors, OG has never stuck out as a monstrous defender to me or even an elite one. D-RAPM, D-LEBRON, and Defensive RAPTOR all paint him as quite literally a negative defender. He’s just barely positive in Defensive EPM. And you’re over here saying he’s DPOY level.

You really think OG isn't an elite defender? What???
I mean you kinda did just admit to being a casual by saying you only watch him when your Cavs play the Raptors. So you're basing your opinion on 2-3 regular season games. Guess it's only right to take your opinion with a grain of salt.

[payton2kemp]

lol Raptors have played a whole bunch teams without any of their top players. All their wins are against g league rosters. Easy on the 2nd round talk

[yoyoboy]

Yes. He is.

Absolutely laughable. Playing the Raptors, OG has never stuck out as a monstrous defender to me or even an elite one. D-RAPM, D-LEBRON, and Defensive RAPTOR all paint him as quite literally a negative defender. He’s just barely positive in Defensive EPM. And you’re over here saying he’s DPOY level.

You really think OG isn't an elite defender? What???
I mean you kinda did just admit to being a casual by saying you only watch him when your Cavs play the Raptors. So you're basing your opinion on 2-3 regular season games. Guess it's only right to take your opinion with a grain of salt.

Maybe you should be the one tuning into other games besides just Raptors games because then you might actually have good reference points for the level of defense OG is actually at. Hint: it’s not DPOY level. Again, OG is posting negative defensive metrics across the board. And you guys are over here painting him as a monstrous defender better than peak LeBron and Paul George. The onus is on you to prove why all these metrics just happen to get OG so ridiculously wrong and explain the enormous gap between the level they depict him at and the level only Raptors fans seem to think he’s at.

I have a feeling the only thing you’ll have to offer is just anecdotal generalities about how he “locks up the other team’s best offensive player 1 on 1.” I would call OG a very good defender but I would stop there. He’s nowhere close to peak LeBron or Paul George, and he doesn’t deserve to make an All-Defensive team either.

[LoveMyRaps]

Absolutely laughable. Playing the Raptors, OG has never stuck out as a monstrous defender to me or even an elite one. D-RAPM, D-LEBRON, and Defensive RAPTOR all paint him as quite literally a negative defender. He’s just barely positive in Defensive EPM. And you’re over here saying he’s DPOY level.

You really think OG isn't an elite defender? What???
I mean you kinda did just admit to being a casual by saying you only watch him when your Cavs play the Raptors. So you're basing your opinion on 2-3 regular season games. Guess it's only right to take your opinion with a grain of salt.

Maybe you should be the one tuning into other games besides just Raptors games because then you might actually have good reference points for the level of defense OG is actually at. Hint: it’s not DPOY level. Again, OG is posting negative defensive metrics across the board. And you guys are over here painting him as a monstrous defender better than peak LeBron and Paul George. The onus is on you to prove why all these metrics just happen to get OG so ridiculously wrong and explain the enormous gap between the level they depict him at and the level only Raptors fans seem to think he’s at.

I have a feeling the only thing you’ll have to offer is just anecdotal generalities about how he “locks up the other team’s best offensive player 1 on 1.” I would call OG a very good defender but I would stop there. He’s nowhere close to peak LeBron or Paul George, and he doesn’t deserve to make an All-Defensive team either.

When did I say he was a DPOY level defender? Or that he was better than peak LeBron & PG?

I'm just calling you out for thinking he's not an elite defender. News flash: He is. (But then again it depends on your definition of elite, so if you consider elite to be DPOY level then you're opinion is valid)

[grimlock]

As a Raptor fan.... I SO want the Bulls in the first round.

They don't have anyone to match up with Siakam, Barnes or OG.

They going to put Vuc on Pascal?? I've seen that movie before.

Demar on OG? OG can give him the business on both ends.

Demar has ALWAYS struggled against bigger stronger players in the playoffs. Joe Johnson, Paul George, LeBron, Middleton ... and on and on.

OG is a better defender than all of those guys and his offensive game is a combo of bully ball inside, making open shots and timely passes to wide open players.

I think Barnes would make Lavine miserable with his length.

OG is a better defender than Prime PG and Prime LeBron? That's kinda news to me...

LeBron finished 2nd in DPOY voting twice, and PG just as recently as 2019 finished top 3...

Yes. He is.

I’m a huge raps fan, but no. Barnes isn’t an amazing defender. He’s a great help defender and is pesky.. but he’s constantly biting on fakes or leaving his coverage to help others. in time he will be amazing… he’s just a rookie

[payton2kemp]

This must be sarcasm but GTJ has been a negative defender his entire career.

Watch a single Raptors game from this season and tell me with a straight face that he isn't a great defender. Again, this is why I don't like using the stats argument when it pertains to defense because half the time it isn't even accurate.

Again, the 2 biggest contributors for said championship are gone.

It's not even the fact that those two are gone (I'm assuming you're referring to Kawhi and Lowry, but that second player could just as easily be Marc Gasol). They don't have the depth that the 2019 Raptors team had. Outside of Leonard, Lowry and Siakam, their three best players by far, you still had Marc Gasol, Fred VanVleet, Danny Green, Serge Ibaka, and Norman Powell (and Jeremy Lin for the memes). That team had a legitimate championship roster, from top to bottom. They had all their positions covered in the starting five and had the depth to cover it. They had all their bases covered. This current Raptors team just doesn't have that. They are severely lacking in rim protection which limits their defensive potential. Outside of OG, they don't really have any bench depth.

Not sure what your point is. Regular season is very different to the playoffs. Demar was so bad in the playoffs that he got benched in the 4th quarter of an elimination game. Also, I am a fan of Demar and I'm super happy to see him have success this year in Chicago. But I know his limitations. He's gotten better in some areas as a player but his biggest weaknesses still remain his biggest weaknesses.

Vucevic has been a poor playoff performer and isn't much of a defender. Lavine isn't a defensive player. Who else do they have?

Sure Chicago will be the favourites. But I'm telling you right now, they wouldn't want to face the Raptors in the 1st round if they had a choice. Three players in the starting lineup have championship rings.

The big difference here is that Demar isn't the number one option. Zach Lavine would be. And this is on top of having Vucevic and Ball on the team too. Sometimes that change of scenery is what you need most to thrive in the playoffs. For some guys that doesn't seem to matter (*cough* Harden). But you can't sit there with a straight face and tell me Curry didn't benefit mightily from being Durant's second option on the Warriors.

The Bulls definitely have a lot to prove and I personally don't see them making it out of the East. But if they end up facing the Raptors in the playoffs, I'm taking the Bulls in a heartbeat.

OG starts, he doesn't come off the bench. And no one is saying they are going to win a championship, we are saying that they have a chance to beat the Bulls who have no playoff experience and a historically bad playoff performer as their best player. Vucevic is also a poor playoff performer who has never gotten out of the first round and Ball has never made the playoffs. Lavine as well. It's their personnel. They just simply do not have a team constructed to do well in the playoffs.

You guys beat a bunch of g league rosters on your win streak and now Raptors fans think they're a championship team!

[Letsgokings]

It would be funny and cool if the Knicks defeated the raptors in the play in lol

[Los_29]

Watch a single Raptors game from this season and tell me with a straight face that he isn't a great defender. Again, this is why I don't like using the stats argument when it pertains to defense because half the time it isn't even accurate.



It's not even the fact that those two are gone (I'm assuming you're referring to Kawhi and Lowry, but that second player could just as easily be Marc Gasol). They don't have the depth that the 2019 Raptors team had. Outside of Leonard, Lowry and Siakam, their three best players by far, you still had Marc Gasol, Fred VanVleet, Danny Green, Serge Ibaka, and Norman Powell (and Jeremy Lin for the memes). That team had a legitimate championship roster, from top to bottom. They had all their positions covered in the starting five and had the depth to cover it. They had all their bases covered. This current Raptors team just doesn't have that. They are severely lacking in rim protection which limits their defensive potential. Outside of OG, they don't really have any bench depth.



The big difference here is that Demar isn't the number one option. Zach Lavine would be. And this is on top of having Vucevic and Ball on the team too. Sometimes that change of scenery is what you need most to thrive in the playoffs. For some guys that doesn't seem to matter (*cough* Harden). But you can't sit there with a straight face and tell me Curry didn't benefit mightily from being Durant's second option on the Warriors.

The Bulls definitely have a lot to prove and I personally don't see them making it out of the East. But if they end up facing the Raptors in the playoffs, I'm taking the Bulls in a heartbeat.

OG starts, he doesn't come off the bench. And no one is saying they are going to win a championship, we are saying that they have a chance to beat the Bulls who have no playoff experience and a historically bad playoff performer as their best player. Vucevic is also a poor playoff performer who has never gotten out of the first round and Ball has never made the playoffs. Lavine as well. It's their personnel. They just simply do not have a team constructed to do well in the playoffs.

You guys beat a bunch of g league rosters on your win streak and now Raptors fans think they're a championship team!

Your reading comprehension is unbelievably bad. Read the second sentence in my post.

And yes we along with many other teams have beaten a lot of G-league lineups due to covid protocols. We were also in that same situation two weeks ago when we had none of our rotation players available. Secondly, this is the first time all year we've actually been healthy.

We can compare the Bulls starting lineup to the Raptors one if you'd like. I'm honestly amazed that there are some people so high on the Bulls. Shouldn't we know what works in the playoffs and what doesn't work in the playoffs by now? The Bulls are a disaster waiting to happen.

[yoyoboy]

You really think OG isn't an elite defender? What???
I mean you kinda did just admit to being a casual by saying you only watch him when your Cavs play the Raptors. So you're basing your opinion on 2-3 regular season games. Guess it's only right to take your opinion with a grain of salt.

Maybe you should be the one tuning into other games besides just Raptors games because then you might actually have good reference points for the level of defense OG is actually at. Hint: it’s not DPOY level. Again, OG is posting negative defensive metrics across the board. And you guys are over here painting him as a monstrous defender better than peak LeBron and Paul George. The onus is on you to prove why all these metrics just happen to get OG so ridiculously wrong and explain the enormous gap between the level they depict him at and the level only Raptors fans seem to think he’s at.

I have a feeling the only thing you’ll have to offer is just anecdotal generalities about how he “locks up the other team’s best offensive player 1 on 1.” I would call OG a very good defender but I would stop there. He’s nowhere close to peak LeBron or Paul George, and he doesn’t deserve to make an All-Defensive team either.

When did I say he was a DPOY level defender? Or that he was better than peak LeBron & PG?

I'm just calling you out for thinking he's not an elite defender. News flash: He is. (But then again it depends on your definition of elite, so if you consider elite to be DPOY level then you're opinion is valid)

Establishing what qualifies as elite is definitely important in this discussion. I would say elite would mean being a legitimate contender to make All-Defensive Team. I don’t think OG is there yet and as someone who places a lot of importance on advanced metrics, it’s clear to me that they don’t depict him as a top 5% or so defender either. Or even close, since they show him as being a slight negative this season. Now maybe it’s possible he’s taken a slight step back on the defensive end this year adjusting to the increased offensive load of being a 20 ppg scorer now - something that’s extremely common as 3+D wings become creators. But that doesn’t seem to be your guys’ argument. You view him as one of the best defender sint the league right now.

[payton2kemp]

OG starts, he doesn't come off the bench. And no one is saying they are going to win a championship, we are saying that they have a chance to beat the Bulls who have no playoff experience and a historically bad playoff performer as their best player. Vucevic is also a poor playoff performer who has never gotten out of the first round and Ball has never made the playoffs. Lavine as well. It's their personnel. They just simply do not have a team constructed to do well in the playoffs.

You guys beat a bunch of g league rosters on your win streak and now Raptors fans think they're a championship team!

Your reading comprehension is unbelievably bad. Read the second sentence in my post.

And yes we along with many other teams have beaten a lot of G-league lineups due to covid protocols. We were also in that same situation two weeks ago when we had none of our rotation players available. Secondly, this is the first time all year we've actually been healthy.

We can compare the Bulls starting lineup to the Raptors one if you'd like. I'm honestly amazed that there are some people so high on the Bulls. Shouldn't we know what works in the playoffs and what doesn't work in the playoffs by now? The Bulls are a disaster waiting to happen.

Raptors are a lottery team without the border issues, the Bulls would easily destroy them, not even close. Put on a poll and no one picks the Raps to win other than homers like you with all the fake wins your team has.

The Raptors have the exact same roster as last year, minus Lowry and plus Scottie. You guys were a lottery team last year lol. Now you got some easy wins and think youre a champ