Separate Thread to Complain About Andrew Wiggins Starting in An NBA All-Star Game

[GunnerWRX]

Again, the players and media also voted Gobert correctly over Wiggins as well. Also again, the Warriors are on TV every single week. The Jazz and Wolves aren't. It has to do with their legendary runs in the past, market size, and Stephen Curry. That means more casual fans voted him in while Gobert and Towns didn't make it in the top 5 in the fan vote.

They got it wrong, plain and simple. The Jazz and Wolves fanbases are among the smallest in the NBA. The Warriors have by far one of the biggest. It had nothing to do with marketing, and everything to do with the casuals knowing who the Warriors are.

You make no sense re: KAT.

Wiggins player rank = 5, media rank = 6. Average = 5.5
KAT's player rank = 7, media rank = 5. Average = 6.0

KAT is behind regardless. Your complaint is not about fanbase and how they voted. Your problem is one individual fan (yourself) thinks KAT is more deserving than Wiggins.

Sorry, life doesn't only go your way.

[The Real Dalic]

Again, the players and media also voted Gobert correctly over Wiggins as well. Also again, the Warriors are on TV every single week. The Jazz and Wolves aren't. It has to do with their legendary runs in the past, market size, and Stephen Curry. That means more casual fans voted him in while Gobert and Towns didn't make it in the top 5 in the fan vote.

They got it wrong, plain and simple. The Jazz and Wolves fanbases are among the smallest in the NBA. The Warriors have by far one of the biggest. It had nothing to do with marketing, and everything to do with the casuals knowing who the Warriors are.

You make no sense re: KAT.

Wiggins player rank = 5, media rank = 6. Average = 5.5
KAT's player rank = 7, media rank = 5. Average = 6.0

KAT is behind regardless. Your complaint is not about fanbase and how they voted. Your problem is one individual fan (yourself) thinks KAT is more deserving than Wiggins.

Sorry, life doesn't only go your way.

Funny how you decided to ignore the fact that I also brought up Rudy Gobert. Wanna do his next? Also, no, it's not just "one fan." This is an entire thread complaining about Wiggins. Look around and see that only one fanbase has agreed with the selection. Wanna take a guess which one?

I also love the fact that you're hanging your hat on a 0.5 difference. That shows just how weak the argument is.

[michaelm]

Again, the players and media also voted Gobert correctly over Wiggins as well. Also again, the Warriors are on TV every single week. The Jazz and Wolves aren't. It has to do with their legendary runs in the past, market size, and Stephen Curry. That means more casual fans voted him in while Gobert and Towns didn't make it in the top 5 in the fan vote.

They got it wrong, plain and simple. The Jazz and Wolves fanbases are among the smallest in the NBA. The Warriors have by far one of the biggest. It had nothing to do with marketing, and everything to do with the casuals knowing who the Warriors are.

You make no sense re: KAT.

Wiggins player rank = 5, media rank = 6. Average = 5.5
KAT's player rank = 7, media rank = 5. Average = 6.0

KAT is behind regardless. Your complaint is not about fanbase and how they voted. Your problem is one individual fan (yourself) thinks KAT is more deserving than Wiggins.

Sorry, life doesn't only go your way.

Funny how you decided to ignore the fact that I also brought up Rudy Gobert. Wanna do his next? Also, no, it's not just "one fan." This is an entire thread complaining about Wiggins. Look around and see that only one fanbase has agreed with the selection. Wanna take a guess which one?

I also love the fact that you're hanging your hat on a 0.5 difference. That shows just how weak the argument is.

A fanbase which also watches him play now and assesses him on that basis rather than on his previous reputation/how he played for another team several years ago. That team also has the second best record in the NBA, to which Wiggins has inarguably been a significant contributor, a record which neither KAT’s nor Gobert’s team has.

And on the rating to which you refer KAT and Wiggins are close to equal. Your point is ?.

[michaelm]

Double

[The Real Dalic]

You make no sense re: KAT.

Wiggins player rank = 5, media rank = 6. Average = 5.5
KAT's player rank = 7, media rank = 5. Average = 6.0

KAT is behind regardless. Your complaint is not about fanbase and how they voted. Your problem is one individual fan (yourself) thinks KAT is more deserving than Wiggins.

Sorry, life doesn't only go your way.

Funny how you decided to ignore the fact that I also brought up Rudy Gobert. Wanna do his next? Also, no, it's not just "one fan." This is an entire thread complaining about Wiggins. Look around and see that only one fanbase has agreed with the selection. Wanna take a guess which one?

I also love the fact that you're hanging your hat on a 0.5 difference. That shows just how weak the argument is.

A fanbase which also watches him play now and assesses him on that basis rather than on his previous reputation/how he played for another team several years ago. That team also has the second best record in the NBA, to which Wiggins has inarguably been a significant contributor, a record which neither KAT’s nor Gobert’s team has.

And on the rating to which you refer KAT and Wiggins are close to equal. Your point is ?.

My point with Kat is that he made it seem like I was insane for even suggesting that KAT could've been an All-Star starter as the best player on a playoff team. He's got the stats and now has the team to be considered a starter.

Gobert is the best player on one of the best teams in the NBA. His impact is so huge and important that whenever he misses games they look like pne of the worst teams in the NBA. And again, he has the stats to back it up. He also was ahead for both players and media and not even top 5 in fan votes.

People are making threads comparing Wiggins to the other worst All-Star starters in history. That should say something. I, and most people, are not saying he couldn't be one of the last All-Stars picked. Especially with all of the injuries to fowards out West. But that he absolutely should not be starting.

Also, some Warrior fans need to stop using the fact that they watch Wiggins more than most and know he's been great for the Warriors and then ignoring the impact of the other 2 I mentioned plus a couple of others. It would be like me saying "Suggs or Wagner are ROY because I watch them and know the impact they have for the Magic. Barnes, Mobley, Cunningham, and Giddey don't come close. Just trust me on this, I watch Magic games." You would rightfully call me a biased homer.

No one denies that Wiggins has an important role for the Warriors and that he's a big reason why they're so great. But players like Robert Horry, Horace Grant, Rajon Rondo, etc, were also high impact players that helped their teams out tremendously and they were never rewarded with All-Star Starter.

It really comes down to the massive size of Warriors fans compared to the insanely small market sizes of Utah and Minnesota. Not only is the Bay Area filled with a whole lot more people than those two places, but they have a huge international fanbase as well. Especially Asia. It helps that Curry is insanely good and marketable.

I'm done with this here because I'm repeating myself a little bit here and so are the Warriors fans that comment on my posts. But I don't how much more clear I can be on my stance here.

[phanman]

Sheesh, its an All-Star game guys. The fact that they even changed the formula for picking Starters with the inclusion of media/players votes should have been enough parity for everyone to accept.

Bringing up guys like KAT and even worse Gobert is just dumb. The casuals(majority of people voting) want to see that flashiness and wings like Wiggins in the game for the excitement. The game was made for fans, and they got who they wanted in the game. The fact that the other two weren't even close placing 6th and 7th on the weighted scale should be enough explanation.

It was truly a perfect storm getting him into the game with major injuries to all the other key front court players and GS having the record they do and kudos to Wiggs for capitalizing on the situation. If you haven't followed the Warriors, he is not that far behind Dray as the 3rd best/most impactful player for the organization this season. A do-it-all wing that is now lights out shooter while being tasked as the go-to stopper for premier wing talent in the league.

Newsflash: players can get better and have a bigger impact on winning when being placed into a better situation. Players aren't just stagnant in their abilities as they progress in their NBA careers.

[SF_Warriors]

He's pretty much the same overpaid player he used to be, but now because he's playing the role of 2nd-3rd banana on a California team behind a Hall of Famer, he's now an All-Star. It's really kind of fascinating in its stupidity. What a joke.

At least GS is getting some PR return on that gigantic luxury tax bill.

Not really. If you watched him, hes much more consistent, better shoot % and 3pt %. His defense is also on a different level compare to when at Minny. The biggest knock on him ( according to Minny fans) was hes inconsistent and for every 30 pts game he will follow with 10 horrible games which is not true atm. Hes currently the 2nd option for the warriors, the next guy is Poole, scoring 16 pts a game while shooting 44% fg and 34% 3pts which are both lower than Wiggins.

While a lot of what you say is true, very little of it counters my assertion that Wiggins hasn't really changed. The better shooting % is largely because Steph is such an amazing shooter and draws so much attention. Wiggins is where he was always supposed to be - playing behind a much better player (soon to be 2 much better players) rather than carrying a team like a #1 should. He's a good player for you guys, and that's fine. We'll see how essential he becomes once Klay is at full speed.

But the idea that the guy is NOW an All-Star because he's asked to do less - and because he's in a much larger market - is what I'm objecting to. It's not quite as egregious as the Zaza thing, but that doesn't mean it makes any sense at all.

Wiggins has changed..his confidence is through the roof, his jumpshot is wayyyy more consistent than it was in minny. He is better at finishing around the rim. His defensive intensity and ability are at a higher level than his first few years. I think a lot of it has to do with him entering his prime as well and finally free from the expectations of being the #1 pick.

I was a fan of the lavine/wiggins/kat/rubio core and thought they would be going places. I watched them a lot and was always disappointed in what I saw from wiggins then. Now when I watch him play I cant imagine the warriors being anywhere near as good without him. Its like night and day how good he has been compared to when he was a timberwolf.

[SpreeS]

Funny how you decided to ignore the fact that I also brought up Rudy Gobert. Wanna do his next? Also, no, it's not just "one fan." This is an entire thread complaining about Wiggins. Look around and see that only one fanbase has agreed with the selection. Wanna take a guess which one?

I also love the fact that you're hanging your hat on a 0.5 difference. That shows just how weak the argument is.

A fanbase which also watches him play now and assesses him on that basis rather than on his previous reputation/how he played for another team several years ago. That team also has the second best record in the NBA, to which Wiggins has inarguably been a significant contributor, a record which neither KAT’s nor Gobert’s team has.

And on the rating to which you refer KAT and Wiggins are close to equal. Your point is ?.

My point with Kat is that he made it seem like I was insane for even suggesting that KAT could've been an All-Star starter as the best player on a playoff team. He's got the stats and now has the team to be considered a starter.

Gobert is the best player on one of the best teams in the NBA. His impact is so huge and important that whenever he misses games they look like pne of the worst teams in the NBA. And again, he has the stats to back it up. He also was ahead for both players and media and not even top 5 in fan votes.

People are making threads comparing Wiggins to the other worst All-Star starters in history. That should say something. I, and most people, are not saying he couldn't be one of the last All-Stars picked. Especially with all of the injuries to fowards out West. But that he absolutely should not be starting.

Also, some Warrior fans need to stop using the fact that they watch Wiggins more than most and know he's been great for the Warriors and then ignoring the impact of the other 2 I mentioned plus a couple of others. It would be like me saying "Suggs or Wagner are ROY because I watch them and know the impact they have for the Magic. Barnes, Mobley, Cunningham, and Giddey don't come close. Just trust me on this, I watch Magic games." You would rightfully call me a biased homer.

No one denies that Wiggins has an important role for the Warriors and that he's a big reason why they're so great. But players like Robert Horry, Horace Grant, Rajon Rondo, etc, were also high impact players that helped their teams out tremendously and they were never rewarded with All-Star Starter.

It really comes down to the massive size of Warriors fans compared to the insanely small market sizes of Utah and Minnesota. Not only is the Bay Area filled with a whole lot more people than those two places, but they have a huge international fanbase as well. Especially Asia. It helps that Curry is insanely good and marketable.

I'm done with this here because I'm repeating myself a little bit here and so are the Warriors fans that comment on my posts. But I don't how much more clear I can be on my stance here.

.

Why don’t you understand simple things.

1. Fans usually vote for one C and two F. So Jokic/Gobert/KAT/Ayton eat each other and have way less chances to get second spot being center.
2. Injuries. Zion and Kawhi missed whole season. Green/George/Davis/Porzingis missed a lot of games and two of them could miss ASG due to injuries.
3. Wiggs opponents: Lebron lock. Bridges, JJJ and Ingram would be next. I dont see why these 3 could be better options to start than Wiggs.

[SF_Warriors]

Funny how you decided to ignore the fact that I also brought up Rudy Gobert. Wanna do his next? Also, no, it's not just "one fan." This is an entire thread complaining about Wiggins. Look around and see that only one fanbase has agreed with the selection. Wanna take a guess which one?

I also love the fact that you're hanging your hat on a 0.5 difference. That shows just how weak the argument is.

A fanbase which also watches him play now and assesses him on that basis rather than on his previous reputation/how he played for another team several years ago. That team also has the second best record in the NBA, to which Wiggins has inarguably been a significant contributor, a record which neither KAT’s nor Gobert’s team has.

And on the rating to which you refer KAT and Wiggins are close to equal. Your point is ?.

My point with Kat is that he made it seem like I was insane for even suggesting that KAT could've been an All-Star starter as the best player on a playoff team. He's got the stats and now has the team to be considered a starter.

Gobert is the best player on one of the best teams in the NBA. His impact is so huge and important that whenever he misses games they look like pne of the worst teams in the NBA. And again, he has the stats to back it up. He also was ahead for both players and media and not even top 5 in fan votes.

People are making threads comparing Wiggins to the other worst All-Star starters in history. That should say something. I, and most people, are not saying he couldn't be one of the last All-Stars picked. Especially with all of the injuries to fowards out West. But that he absolutely should not be starting.

Also, some Warrior fans need to stop using the fact that they watch Wiggins more than most and know he's been great for the Warriors and then ignoring the impact of the other 2 I mentioned plus a couple of others. It would be like me saying "Suggs or Wagner are ROY because I watch them and know the impact they have for the Magic. Barnes, Mobley, Cunningham, and Giddey don't come close. Just trust me on this, I watch Magic games." You would rightfully call me a biased homer.

No one denies that Wiggins has an important role for the Warriors and that he's a big reason why they're so great. But players like Robert Horry, Horace Grant, Rajon Rondo, etc, were also high impact players that helped their teams out tremendously and they were never rewarded with All-Star Starter.

It really comes down to the massive size of Warriors fans compared to the insanely small market sizes of Utah and Minnesota. Not only is the Bay Area filled with a whole lot more people than those two places, but they have a huge international fanbase as well. Especially Asia. It helps that Curry is insanely good and marketable.

I'm done with this here because I'm repeating myself a little bit here and so are the Warriors fans that comment on my posts. But I don't how much more clear I can be on my stance here.

As a warriors fan, I think its disingenuous to think wiggins is a better player or more deserving of all star starter than KAT. For one, KAT has been playing at a higher level for much longer. KAT is a perennial all star talent, wiggins is a fringe all star talent. Clearly different tiers. Imagine KAT in the warriors system playing with steph and having draymond back him up on defense..and klay stretching the floor with poole in the mix. It wouldnt be fair, like at all. Now, I understand much of the voting is based on record and Wiggins has been absolutely phenomenal for the warriors. Not too much complaint having him as a starter but putting down KAT to do so is bush league.

[dhsilv2]

Why don’t you understand simple things.

1. Fans usually vote for one C and two F. So Jokic/Gobert/KAT/Ayton eat each other and have way less chances to get second spot being center.
2. Injuries. Zion and Kawhi missed whole season. Green/George/Davis/Porzingis missed a lot of games and two of them could miss ASG due to injuries.
3. Wiggs opponents: Lebron lock. Bridges, JJJ and Ingram would be next. I dont see why these 3 could be better options to start than Wiggs.

What evidence do you have for the fans voting for a C and 2 F's?

[SpreeS]

Why don’t you understand simple things.

1. Fans usually vote for one C and two F. So Jokic/Gobert/KAT/Ayton eat each other and have way less chances to get second spot being center.
2. Injuries. Zion and Kawhi missed whole season. Green/George/Davis/Porzingis missed a lot of games and two of them could miss ASG due to injuries.
3. Wiggs opponents: Lebron lock. Bridges, JJJ and Ingram would be next. I dont see why these 3 could be better options to start than Wiggs.

What evidence do you have for the fans voting for a C and 2 F's?

Pl dont start….

[dhsilv2]

Why don’t you understand simple things.

1. Fans usually vote for one C and two F. So Jokic/Gobert/KAT/Ayton eat each other and have way less chances to get second spot being center.
2. Injuries. Zion and Kawhi missed whole season. Green/George/Davis/Porzingis missed a lot of games and two of them could miss ASG due to injuries.
3. Wiggs opponents: Lebron lock. Bridges, JJJ and Ingram would be next. I dont see why these 3 could be better options to start than Wiggs.

What evidence do you have for the fans voting for a C and 2 F's?

Pl dont start….

It seems pretty presumptuous that fans do that despite just being asked for the 3 guys from a list...

[SpreeS]

What evidence do you have for the fans voting for a C and 2 F's?

Pl dont start….

It seems pretty presumptuous that fans do that despite just being asked for the 3 guys from a list...

Its up to fans to pick 3 best player or to pick the best possible standart combination of C and 2 F

For me I like more standart unit CFFGG

[dhsilv2]

Pl dont start….

It seems pretty presumptuous that fans do that despite just being asked for the 3 guys from a list...

Its up to fans to pick 3 best player or to pick the best possible standart combination of C and 2 F

For me I like more standart unit CFFGG

So you're just assuming fans vote like you do then? That's fine...but the way you posted was as if you'd seen something on it.

[SpreeS]

It seems pretty presumptuous that fans do that despite just being asked for the 3 guys from a list...

Its up to fans to pick 3 best player or to pick the best possible standart combination of C and 2 F

For me I like more standart unit CFFGG

So you're just assuming fans vote like you do then? That's fine...but the way you posted was as if you'd seen something on it.

Its not rocket’s science. Go and count all votes for C and F position’s. C votes/ Total votes ratio will give answer, how did fan’s vote.

[dhsilv2]

Its up to fans to pick 3 best player or to pick the best possible standart combination of C and 2 F

For me I like more standart unit CFFGG

So you're just assuming fans vote like you do then? That's fine...but the way you posted was as if you'd seen something on it.

Its not rocket’s science. Go and count all votes for C and F position’s. C votes/ Total votes ratio will give answer, how did fan’s vote.

That won't show me that patter on their votes. That should hold if people simply select players at random too.

[Warren Mitchell]

Derozan and Wiggins both starting might be the worst starters in all star lineups we've ever seen.

Embarrassing for both sides.

Derozan is an MVP candidate this season if you don't like him personally that's your problem

[dhsilv2]

Derozan and Wiggins both starting might be the worst starters in all star lineups we've ever seen.

Embarrassing for both sides.

Derozan is an MVP candidate this season if you don't like him personally that's your problem

He's +5000 from vegas and not even on basketball reference's top 10 in their tracker. Candidate is a pretty loose term here.

[michaelm]

A fanbase which also watches him play now and assesses him on that basis rather than on his previous reputation/how he played for another team several years ago. That team also has the second best record in the NBA, to which Wiggins has inarguably been a significant contributor, a record which neither KAT’s nor Gobert’s team has.

And on the rating to which you refer KAT and Wiggins are close to equal. Your point is ?.

My point with Kat is that he made it seem like I was insane for even suggesting that KAT could've been an All-Star starter as the best player on a playoff team. He's got the stats and now has the team to be considered a starter.

Gobert is the best player on one of the best teams in the NBA. His impact is so huge and important that whenever he misses games they look like pne of the worst teams in the NBA. And again, he has the stats to back it up. He also was ahead for both players and media and not even top 5 in fan votes.

People are making threads comparing Wiggins to the other worst All-Star starters in history. That should say something. I, and most people, are not saying he couldn't be one of the last All-Stars picked. Especially with all of the injuries to fowards out West. But that he absolutely should not be starting.

Also, some Warrior fans need to stop using the fact that they watch Wiggins more than most and know he's been great for the Warriors and then ignoring the impact of the other 2 I mentioned plus a couple of others. It would be like me saying "Suggs or Wagner are ROY because I watch them and know the impact they have for the Magic. Barnes, Mobley, Cunningham, and Giddey don't come close. Just trust me on this, I watch Magic games." You would rightfully call me a biased homer.

No one denies that Wiggins has an important role for the Warriors and that he's a big reason why they're so great. But players like Robert Horry, Horace Grant, Rajon Rondo, etc, were also high impact players that helped their teams out tremendously and they were never rewarded with All-Star Starter.

It really comes down to the massive size of Warriors fans compared to the insanely small market sizes of Utah and Minnesota. Not only is the Bay Area filled with a whole lot more people than those two places, but they have a huge international fanbase as well. Especially Asia. It helps that Curry is insanely good and marketable.

I'm done with this here because I'm repeating myself a little bit here and so are the Warriors fans that comment on my posts. But I don't how much more clear I can be on my stance here.

As a warriors fan, I think its disingenuous to think wiggins is a better player or more deserving of all star starter than KAT. For one, KAT has been playing at a higher level for much longer. KAT is a perennial all star talent, wiggins is a fringe all star talent. Clearly different tiers. Imagine KAT in the warriors system playing with steph and having draymond back him up on defense..and klay stretching the floor with poole in the mix. It wouldnt be fair, like at all. Now, I understand much of the voting is based on record and Wiggins has been absolutely phenomenal for the warriors. Not too much complaint having him as a starter but putting down KAT to do so is bush league.

Not my point at all that Wiggins is better than KAT, just that if someone is arguing that a 0.5 difference by one particular metric is not significant then it makes them even by that metric. I would have no problem with KAT being both rated and picked ahead of Wiggins either. Insofar as I care about all star selection then Wiggins imo is worthy of being a reserve, which makes his selection as a starter, again imo, not egregiously bad/the worst in history requiring a thread to condemn same, and I do think people are tending still to rate him as the player he was with the TWolves rather than on how he plays now for GSW.

[SF_Warriors]

My point with Kat is that he made it seem like I was insane for even suggesting that KAT could've been an All-Star starter as the best player on a playoff team. He's got the stats and now has the team to be considered a starter.

Gobert is the best player on one of the best teams in the NBA. His impact is so huge and important that whenever he misses games they look like pne of the worst teams in the NBA. And again, he has the stats to back it up. He also was ahead for both players and media and not even top 5 in fan votes.

People are making threads comparing Wiggins to the other worst All-Star starters in history. That should say something. I, and most people, are not saying he couldn't be one of the last All-Stars picked. Especially with all of the injuries to fowards out West. But that he absolutely should not be starting.

Also, some Warrior fans need to stop using the fact that they watch Wiggins more than most and know he's been great for the Warriors and then ignoring the impact of the other 2 I mentioned plus a couple of others. It would be like me saying "Suggs or Wagner are ROY because I watch them and know the impact they have for the Magic. Barnes, Mobley, Cunningham, and Giddey don't come close. Just trust me on this, I watch Magic games." You would rightfully call me a biased homer.

No one denies that Wiggins has an important role for the Warriors and that he's a big reason why they're so great. But players like Robert Horry, Horace Grant, Rajon Rondo, etc, were also high impact players that helped their teams out tremendously and they were never rewarded with All-Star Starter.

It really comes down to the massive size of Warriors fans compared to the insanely small market sizes of Utah and Minnesota. Not only is the Bay Area filled with a whole lot more people than those two places, but they have a huge international fanbase as well. Especially Asia. It helps that Curry is insanely good and marketable.

I'm done with this here because I'm repeating myself a little bit here and so are the Warriors fans that comment on my posts. But I don't how much more clear I can be on my stance here.

As a warriors fan, I think its disingenuous to think wiggins is a better player or more deserving of all star starter than KAT. For one, KAT has been playing at a higher level for much longer. KAT is a perennial all star talent, wiggins is a fringe all star talent. Clearly different tiers. Imagine KAT in the warriors system playing with steph and having draymond back him up on defense..and klay stretching the floor with poole in the mix. It wouldnt be fair, like at all. Now, I understand much of the voting is based on record and Wiggins has been absolutely phenomenal for the warriors. Not too much complaint having him as a starter but putting down KAT to do so is bush league.

Not my point at all that Wiggins is better than KAT, just that if someone is arguing that a 0.5 difference by one particular metric is not significant then it makes them even by that metric. I would have no problem with KAT being both rated and picked ahead of Wiggins either. Insofar as I care about all star selection then Wiggins imo is worthy of being a reserve, which makes his selection as a starter, again imo, not egregiously bad/the worst in history requiring a thread to condemn same, and I do think people are tending still to rate him as the player he was with the TWolves rather than on how he plays now for GSW.

Yea, if it was egregious that Wiggs makes the ASG, his peers would not have voted for him ala Zaza a couple years back.