Tatum VS Luka

[Bob8]

This is just Boston fans vs the world up in here. lol

Nah I’m not a Boston fan. I think Tatum is better though. His elite defense is hard to ignore.

You have already "liked" Luka, when he was rookie.

[3toheadmelo]

This is just Boston fans vs the world up in here. lol

Nah I’m not a Boston fan. I think Tatum is better though. His elite defense is hard to ignore.

You have already "liked" Luka, when he was rookie.

?

[Jadoogar]

It's Luka. Compare their supporting casts right now. Dallas is a really well built team but
Brunson vs Jaylen Brown
Kleiber vs Robert williams
Dinwiddie vs Marcus smart

In a vacuum, you take the boston players every time.

[Big J]

Swap teams and Boston is a championship contender while Dallas misses the playoffs.

[Bob8]

Nah I’m not a Boston fan. I think Tatum is better though. His elite defense is hard to ignore.

You have already "liked" Luka, when he was rookie.

?

Short memory?

[3toheadmelo]

You have already "liked" Luka, when he was rookie.

?

Short memory?

I don’t get what you’re trying to say here

[PierceFan4ever]

Swap teams and Boston is a championship contender while Dallas misses the playoffs.

Boston already is a championship contender with Tatum

[bisme37]

I would still believe that Nba executives should know a little bit more than us casual fans.

First off, who you calling casual fan lol? I'm an overly obsessed fan with no life outside of the NBA thank you very much.

The thing I'm getting at is things change and reasonable people adjust their opinions when new evidence is presented.

Luka has been regarded as the best player of the new generation by a mile, and when that survey was taken the Celts were sucking and people thought the team should be blown up. Fast forward and it's a different picture now.

I'm not mad at Luka fans for saying he's better. He's awesome and he is better in some ways. And if some other player was encroaching on my guy's status as the best I'd probably be all up in this thread trying to say it's not true too haha.

But it's a very a close comparison now. Things change and that's just where we're at.

Let's do a test. Only 2 questions.

1. How many Mavs games did you watch this year?

2. Would you believe that Luka played his best basketball in the last few months of the season, just like Tatum?

I don't know what this has do to with anything I said but since we're ignoring my points and talking about something else now...

1. I watched probably a dozen full Mavs games this RS and parts of many others. And both of his playoff games so far.
2. Yes I would believe that. Thing is, it seems to support the idea that they are both great and there's not much separation between them. Which is what I said.

Tatum showed incredible growth this season. Defense, playmaking, shot selection, leadership, killer instinct, control of the game. Basically all the things he needed to do to get from star to legit superstar, he's there now. He's whole tier better as a player now than he was a year ago, and he was really good then. Before the Nets series we had people saying the Nets had the two best players in the series, and then JT outplayed them both and ended their season.

If you went back and asked those executives who they now think is winning the title this year, I kinda don't think they'd still say the Nets. Right? Life comes at you fast and we know things now that we didn't know before. (I know you're not trying to hear it but that was my response to you before you changed the subject, just to get it out of my system.)

Anyway, I hope no thinks I've been dragging Luka. I've become a bigger fan of him now than I've ever been. I think he's a great top-tier player and only getting better.

I also think those things about Tatum is all I'm saying.

[Feed Your Head]

It's Luka. Compare their supporting casts right now. Dallas is a really well built team but
Brunson vs Jaylen Brown
Kleiber vs Robert williams
Dinwiddie vs Marcus smart

In a vacuum, you take the boston players every time.

They do have better players, makes it all the more impressive that without Tatum in the lineup, their net rating dropped 16.5 points.

In 409 minutes with Tatum in the game without any other starter on the floor, the Celtics had a net rating of +17.

[Texas Chuck]

Swap teams and Boston is a championship contender while Dallas misses the playoffs.

Boston already is a championship contender with Tatum

Yeah I was confused as well. I guess he hasn't been paying attention to Boston having been the best team in the NBA the past 50 games or so.

[SecondTake]

I think I would still lean to Luka by a very small margin as he can lead a team better but Tatum has gotten really good at it (credits to him, I was not a believer). Tatum is a top-5 player the way he's played since January so people saying it's not close are living in dreamland.

If someone is a top 5 player this year does that make them close to prime LeBron? Tatum being top 5 this year still puts him far off Luka, and that's not disrespect to Tatum. He's good, but he's not generational good

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[rate_]

Luka, because he's _________.

That's the real answer.

[Texas Chuck]

It's Luka. Compare their supporting casts right now. Dallas is a really well built team but
Brunson vs Jaylen Brown
Kleiber vs Robert williams
Dinwiddie vs Marcus smart

In a vacuum, you take the boston players every time.

They do have better players, makes it all the more impressive that without Tatum in the lineup, their net rating dropped 16.5 points.

In 409 minutes with Tatum in the game without any other starter on the floor, the Celtics had a net rating of +17.

I think part of it is Jalen Brunson is a natural point guard and his experience at Nova means he's very comfortable in a primary offensive role. Boston is already operating without a classic point guard, though all respect to Smart and how well he's played that position this year. So remove your go-to guy and its maybe more challenging?

But I also think some of the unnamed players are pretty useful to Dallas' offense. Bullock and Dorian are very good catch and shoot guys that teams can't leave. Dwight Powell is a terrific rim runner and his entire tenure in Dallas the team's offensive rating with him on the court has been higher than people would suspect. And then there was THJ before the injury a solid offensive player and Dinwiddie has been good in Dallas(though not in the playoffs ) and Bertans is the best corner 3 guy in the league.

The names in Dallas definitely aren't sexy, but they have very clearly defined roles that play directly to their strengths and don't ask anyone to do things they don't do well.


So less talent, but I'm not at all convinced less offensive talent. Now defensively, I'd give a big edge to Boston. Bullock and Kleber are good, DFS becoming a bit more than that, but they don't have a Smart or a Williams(or a Tatum).

[BmanInBigD]

Luka, because he's _________.

That's the real answer.

"better", is that the missing word? I'm hoping it's not what I think it might be...

[Big J]

Swap teams and Boston is a championship contender while Dallas misses the playoffs.

Boston already is a championship contender with Tatum

We haven’t seen it yet.

[3toheadmelo]

To reiterate what I said as OP.. this is insane. KD is arguably the most skilled scorer of this generation and Tatum put the clamps on him. That’s unheard of.

Read on Twitter

[Synciere]

Advanced stats this season.
DPM: Tatum 5.7/Luka 3.7
EPM: Tatum 5.8/Luka 4.5
LEBRON: Tatum 5.1/Luka 3.0
RAPTOR: Tatum 6.7/Luka 6.3
RPM: Tatum 8.7/Luka 6.6
BPM: Luka 8.2/Tatum 4.9

Yeah, those.

I think Tatum does everything with less usage, so it looks like Luka is doing more because he literally has the ball half the time for Dallas while he's on the floor. PER does favor Luka though (25.1 vs. 21.8), but that's a stat skewed towards per minute numbers and usage. I prefer win shares, where Tatum leads Luka (9.6 vs. 7.6). Again, Luka just 'feels' like he's doing more, but Tatum is the better overall player today.

Tatum has higher number in win shares because he played 11 games more. And the reason why you "feel" like Luka is doing more is because he actually is doing more. He creates 52+ points per game for Mavs via scoring or assists. Tatum for example only 38+ points.

But those are regular season numbers, Luka usually has another level or two in the playoffs that he can go to just unfortunately he is still trying to get his rhythm back, and conditioning, from not being able to play for 12 or 13 days.

All true. Luka does more, and creates more points because he’s the de facto point guard. He rarely plays off the ball. So how many points generated is going to be skewed. We just saw Tatum against an all time great and more than hold his own so talk of another level is a wash. Like I said, all advanced stars back up what I’m saying.

[Synciere]

Advanced stats this season.
DPM: Tatum 5.7/Luka 3.7
EPM: Tatum 5.8/Luka 4.5
LEBRON: Tatum 5.1/Luka 3.0
RAPTOR: Tatum 6.7/Luka 6.3
RPM: Tatum 8.7/Luka 6.6
BPM: Luka 8.2/Tatum 4.9

Yeah, those.

I think Tatum does everything with less usage, so it looks like Luka is doing more because he literally has the ball half the time for Dallas while he's on the floor. PER does favor Luka though (25.1 vs. 21.8), but that's a stat skewed towards per minute numbers and usage. I prefer win shares, where Tatum leads Luka (9.6 vs. 7.6). Again, Luka just 'feels' like he's doing more, but Tatum is the better overall player today.

And when they play each other, it looks like that,

Watch on YouTube

And like that,

Watch on YouTube

I admit Tatum played some good D in this games.

Yeah, Luka is a beast, hence this thread. But that’s one game. We have hundreds of games of data and highlights and lowlights and playoffs and wins and losses, and all told, Tatum is better today. I think Luka can make a run and change that, but we’re all nitpicking at this point.

[StojkoVrankovic]

Swap teams and Boston is a championship contender while Dallas misses the playoffs.

Imagine hitting submit on this post

[Franco]

I'm still taking Luka comfortably, but unlike the previous 2 seasons Tatum is actually making me think for a second now.