Nikola Jokic wins MVP(again)

[eyeatoma]

I see we jumped to the race part of the cycle quickly this time.

What is it with this board and talking about race? It's not taboo. Time to get comfortable with the discussion. I'm sorry if you feel insecure about it, but are we going to act like race never plays a role in the NBA?

Nobody has a problem discussing race but you brought it out of nowhere in an irrelevant manner.

We were talking about how there are GMs and coaches in the league who aren’t former players to show the fact that you don’t need to be a former player like Antoine Walker to understand basketball

You just pulled the race argument out of nowhere

This board definitely has a problem discussing race, it is reflective of society as well.

[scrabbarista]

Media made this seem a lot closer than it was. No-doubter. It was Jokic all along.

If your media consumption is cable television and that's it, then you won't have a clue what's actually happening in the NBA. I learned this recently after spending a couple of weeks with a few guys who watch a lot of ESPN. We talked a lot of NBA, and they were spouting some crazy ideas and theories and stories and gossip that I'd never heard before, none of which made any sense or had any basis in reality, and it quickly became apparent that they were getting these ideas from... surprise... mainstream television. If you want to get closer to what really goes on in the NBA, I'd advise digging into the world of podcasts.

[cupcakesnake]

If you're going to have twice as many MVPs as Shaq or Kobe I'm gonna hold you to a pretty high standard. Stats aren't enough. Great regular season player

Utter silliness and a lazy, boring take.
Last time Jokic was on a healthy squad he humiliated a stacked team led by Kawhi Leonard and went to the Western Conference Finals.

Fans like you called Kobe a loser when he was on a garbage squad in between Shaq and Gasol. Was Kobe elite, and then bad, and then elite again? Or was he just always elite and the team changed around him? Shaq didn't win multiple MVPs because he too often chilled in the regular season. Kobe came close to winning multiple but there were just other great players. Neither Shaq or Kobe ever put up a regular-season performance like this. You need a squad to beat good teams in the playoffs (ask Michael Jordan about how his playoffs went pre-Pippen and Grant). Jokic's squad sat this season out with injuries. God permitting they'll be back healthy next year and Denver will be a playoff threat.

Preach!!! For years it would bother me to no end that Tracy McGrady would get pined down for playoff losses when he brought teams to the playoffs that has no right to be there. Hopefully, a Jokic MVP shows the playoffs is a team win, not about the individual.

I've heard some good points lately about approaching individual awards as team awards, since that's what we're basically doing when we want to see win totals more heavily represented than they were this year. Like rather than Jokic winning the MVP for being the best player this year, we'd think: The Suns won the MVP for Devin Booker this year. Or how that's what basically happened with Marcus Smart's DPOY: elite team defense with 7 guys as heavy contributors, their defensive anchor (Rob Williams) gets an untimely injury, so we reward Smart for his important role as part of a great team. Jokic wasn't part of a great team this year, and would not have won had Giannis or Embiid been on the 65 win team. I think the main thing about MVP this year was that there were 3 ridiculously good candidates on good (not great teams) and no one on the great teams that was anywhere near them as a candidate.

[Bruin]

I responded to your initial post. If you have a problem with it, then you shouldn't have written what you said. You expect people not to respond to that?

And to respond to this one, yes Masai is awesome at his job, and he's black. Thanks for proving my point. The NBA needs more execs like him. I didn't say all coaches need to be former players. I said that more coaches need to better represent the demographics of the large majority of the NBA community.

I don’t see how you feel this is relevant to the MVP conversation

You went from using Antoine Walker’s opinion as an argument as to how Embiid should’ve been MVP cause he’s a former player. Then when I brought up the fact that many of the coaches and GMs aren’t former players, you brought the race card. As if former black players haven’t become coaches and execs as well. What matters is knowing the game well and Antoine Walker isn’t one of those kinds of guys

Do you really fail to see where you went wrong?

Yes, it would be great to have more black and POC in coaching and exec positions. But that has nothing to do with the fact that Antoine Walker isn’t a great basketball mind

If you want to stop discussing it, stop bringing up things that inherently will involve race dude. This is not hard.

Why do you think Antoine Walker doesn't know the game well? Seriously curious. Is it because of the way he talks? Is it because he took ill advised shots? Walker was ahead of his time in chucking 3s. Now it's the bread and butter of 95% of the leagues offense. He would fit perfectly in today's league.

Lol you’re the one who made this about race

Do you really think Antoine Walker was known for his Basketball IQ? Cause he was ahead of the game? Do you really think having a style that fits Better in a different era is an argument for IQ? Like actually?

I don’t care how Walker looks or speaks. That’s irrelevant. You’re making this a discussion about something that only you’re pushing towards.

[eyeatoma]

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Take Steps MVPs away? Not a great defender.

What Steph did with his two MVPS were far more revolutionary than what Jokic is doing. Steph's MVPs also resulted in a championship for one of those seasons. Far better than what Jokic was ever able to do.

[Rainwater]

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Take Steps MVPs away? Not a great defender.

Seriously. Steph got subbed out too. That doesn’t mean Steph wasn’t MVP.

I was being sarcastic, that was the point my post, lol.

[PhilBlackson]

Imagine if Jokic had Maxey, Harden and Harris on his team and only won 51 games?

To be fair Harden only played 20 games for Philly

Not to mention played 6 less games than Jokic so you would think Sixers likely get AT LEAST 3-4 Ws if he were playing and Maxey only really broke out in the Playoffs. Personally I think Gordon and Harris are similar level players than you still have Bones who was great surprise in his own right and guys like Barton, Morris, Campazzo who were all really solid.

[Duffman100]

Ugh...

[eyeatoma]

I don’t see how you feel this is relevant to the MVP conversation

You went from using Antoine Walker’s opinion as an argument as to how Embiid should’ve been MVP cause he’s a former player. Then when I brought up the fact that many of the coaches and GMs aren’t former players, you brought the race card. As if former black players haven’t become coaches and execs as well. What matters is knowing the game well and Antoine Walker isn’t one of those kinds of guys

Do you really fail to see where you went wrong?

Yes, it would be great to have more black and POC in coaching and exec positions. But that has nothing to do with the fact that Antoine Walker isn’t a great basketball mind

If you want to stop discussing it, stop bringing up things that inherently will involve race dude. This is not hard.

Why do you think Antoine Walker doesn't know the game well? Seriously curious. Is it because of the way he talks? Is it because he took ill advised shots? Walker was ahead of his time in chucking 3s. Now it's the bread and butter of 95% of the leagues offense. He would fit perfectly in today's league.

Lol you’re the one who made this about race

Do you really think Antoine Walker was known for his Basketball IQ? Cause he was ahead of the game? Do you really think having a style that fits Better in a different era is an argument for IQ? Like actually?

I don’t care how Walker looks or speaks. That’s irrelevant. You’re making this a discussion about something that only you’re pushing towards.

If that's what you feel, okay.

[Bruin]

What is it with this board and talking about race? It's not taboo. Time to get comfortable with the discussion. I'm sorry if you feel insecure about it, but are we going to act like race never plays a role in the NBA?

Nobody has a problem discussing race but you brought it out of nowhere in an irrelevant manner.

We were talking about how there are GMs and coaches in the league who aren’t former players to show the fact that you don’t need to be a former player like Antoine Walker to understand basketball

You just pulled the race argument out of nowhere

This board definitely has a problem discussing race, it is reflective of society as well.

If you want to discuss race and it’s impact on the league, you’re totally free to discuss it. And I’m sure many will entertain it, myself included. But the way you brought race into this particular discussion has no substance

[maxpower8888]

Imagine if Jokic had Maxey, Harden and Harris on his team and only won 51 games?

To be fair Harden only played 20 games for Philly

Not to mention played 6 less games than Jokic so you would think Sixers likely get at 3-4 Ws if he were playing and Maxey only really broke out in the Playoffs. Personally I think Gordon and Harris are similar level players than you still have Bones who was great surprise in his own right and guys like Barton, Morris, Campazzo who were all really solid.

Yeah right, because everybody knows the Nuggets roster is completely stacked.

[eyeatoma]

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Take Steps MVPs away? Not a great defender.

Seriously. Steph got subbed out too. That doesn’t mean Steph wasn’t MVP.

Conveniently ignoring the injury part in the tweet though lol.

[GeorgeSears]

It was a nice surprise for the Nuggets fans, and Jokic in particular, who had to endure one of the most frustrating seasons in recent memory. Jokic probably won't win another MVP again but this was a nice send off.

Next season, I imagine Embiid, Giannis, and Luka (if he doesn't show up 30 lbs over) will be the heavy favorites.

[Raps in 4]

I responded to your initial post. If you have a problem with it, then you shouldn't have written what you said. You expect people not to respond to that?

And to respond to this one, yes Masai is awesome at his job, and he's black. Thanks for proving my point. The NBA needs more execs like him. I didn't say all coaches need to be former players. I said that more coaches need to better represent the demographics of the large majority of the NBA community.

I don’t see how you feel this is relevant to the MVP conversation

You went from using Antoine Walker’s opinion as an argument as to how Embiid should’ve been MVP cause he’s a former player. Then when I brought up the fact that many of the coaches and GMs aren’t former players, you brought the race card. As if former black players haven’t become coaches and execs as well. What matters is knowing the game well and Antoine Walker isn’t one of those kinds of guys

Do you really fail to see where you went wrong?

Yes, it would be great to have more black and POC in coaching and exec positions. But that has nothing to do with the fact that Antoine Walker isn’t a great basketball mind

If you want to stop discussing it, stop bringing up things that inherently will involve race dude. This is not hard.

Why do you think Antoine Walker doesn't know the game well? Seriously curious. Is it because of the way he talks? Is it because he took ill advised shots? Walker was ahead of his time in chucking 3s. Now it's the bread and butter of 95% of the leagues offense. He would fit perfectly in today's league.

Because he didn't articulate a compelling argument. This was what he said in that clip:

- I don't think that Joker should have won the award.
- I think Embiid (or Giannis) should have won it.
- I think he did the necessary things to get the award.
- He had to deal with Ben Simmons and the trade.
- But he stayed consistent throughout the season.
- Jokic didn't have a winning season.

From that, I can conclude that he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about.

[rapstarter]

I responded to your initial post. If you have a problem with it, then you shouldn't have written what you said. You expect people not to respond to that?

And to respond to this one, yes Masai is awesome at his job, and he's black. Thanks for proving my point. The NBA needs more execs like him. I didn't say all coaches need to be former players. I said that more coaches need to better represent the demographics of the large majority of the NBA community.

I don’t see how you feel this is relevant to the MVP conversation

You went from using Antoine Walker’s opinion as an argument as to how Embiid should’ve been MVP cause he’s a former player. Then when I brought up the fact that many of the coaches and GMs aren’t former players, you brought the race card. As if former black players haven’t become coaches and execs as well. What matters is knowing the game well and Antoine Walker isn’t one of those kinds of guys

Do you really fail to see where you went wrong?

Yes, it would be great to have more black and POC in coaching and exec positions. But that has nothing to do with the fact that Antoine Walker isn’t a great basketball mind

If you want to stop discussing it, stop bringing up things that inherently will involve race dude. This is not hard.

Why do you think Antoine Walker doesn't know the game well? Seriously curious. Is it because of the way he talks? Is it because he took ill advised shots? Walker was ahead of his time in chucking 3s. Now it's the bread and butter of 95% of the leagues offense. He would fit perfectly in today's league.

Now I've heard it all. No, Antoine Walker was not ahead of his time. Dude shot over 50 TS% twice in his career and not a single time above league average. If anything, that should make you question his basketball IQ.

[Sgt Major]

Sixers fans are on the loooooose

[Wolfgang630]

Take Steps MVPs away? Not a great defender.

Seriously. Steph got subbed out too. That doesn’t mean Steph wasn’t MVP.

Conveniently ignoring the injury part in the tweet though lol.

In the end we can agree Embiid or Jokic would’ve deserved winning MVP.

[Rainwater]

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Take Steps MVPs away? Not a great defender.

What Steph did with his two MVPS were far more revolutionary than what Jokic is doing. Steph's MVPs also resulted in a championship for one of those seasons. Far better than what Jokic was ever able to do.

Lol, so being a limited defender doesn't eliminate you from MVP conversation then?!?!?! So it is a more naunced conversation?!??? And last I checked Joker's advanced starts were amazing.

[Dutchball97]

Idgaf what the analytics geeks say, Embiid was the real MVP this season.

You don't care about what these "geeks" that get hired by NBA teams to do their player evaluation have to say but you expect anyone to care about your baseless opinion?

Your guy won, of course you are going to value their opinion. Simple psychology.

We've been over this so many times and you still don't get it. Jokic is "my guy" because he's been the most statistically dominant this year, Embiid is your guy because he happens to wear a 76ers jersey.

Even if anyone else had won I'd still value the opinions of the leading NBA analysts over the opinions of some randoms on a forum who refuse to have any kind of objective discussion.

[maxpower8888]

Philly fans right now explaining why Embiid was the real MVP.