This board really needs to apologize to Andrew Wiggins

[soxfan2003]

He was drafted to the wrong team

It was a sign of the times.. guys like him, Harrison Barnes, OJ Mayo.. they were given top billing because they were difficult shot-makers. And the thought was that the rest of their floor games would come around as well, like a Jayson Tatum. But the odds were always heavily against those types of players, more so than your "typical" #1 picks.. if Wiggins was drafted at a more appropriate spot, let's say 5-8, wasn't ever tried as the #1 option, and signed for less than the max, I'd wager his perceived value among fans would go up right now, as a player.

Narratives are hard to change, especially when it comes to sports fans. A very dug-in lot.. add anyone willing to have an earnest conversation to your favorites because its rarer than Draymond accepting a foul with grace

I liked Wiggins more than most and would have drafted him 1A that year and Embiid 1B. If Embiid did not suffer a serious injury, I would have wanted my Celtics to draft Embiid first if they had that pick. After Greg Oden, I believe a ton of people including general managers got scared of drafting a big that had already suffered multiple injuries in his one year of college ball.

For sure, Wiggins was was a difficult shotmaker in Kansas but I think people expected him to be a little bit better driving to the basket and a lot better as a free throw shooter. Kansas was not a team with a lot of spacing. Jaylen Brown was reportedly in a worse situation at Cal and his play kind of suffered. People really correctly thought that Wiggins could and should be a very good defender. The only really legitimate knock on his defense is he didn't get a lot steals and wasn't 100% consistent with it. People recognized that he would be a decent passer but just not a great one.

But expecting 80%+ free throw shooting to go alongside his current 3 point percentages was a fairly reasonable expectation based upon his only college season where he shot 77.5% from the line and decent from the 3 point line for a college freshman. 77.5% as a college freshman on fairly high volume for college level is really darn good and I feel confident if you track those players, they are shooting free throws in the 80's in the NBA. But Wiggins hovered around 76% for years and then regressed a lot from the line....

[tsherkin]

if Wiggins was drafted at a more appropriate spot, let's say 5-8, wasn't ever tried as the #1 option, and signed for less than the max, I'd wager his perceived value among fans would go up right now, as a player.

That makes a lot of sense to me. It's hard to shed the "bust" tag, and he failed miserably for Minny the way they tried to use him. If he'd come up in a place where he had the chance to be even #2, I suspect the narrative around him would differ considerably, particularly now that he is cheerfully contributing to the Warriors in his assigned role without any drama.

[JN61]

Proof?

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2153193

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2161170

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2161176


A lot of usual suspect "fans" giving all credits to Curry or downplaying impact Wiggins had on their own team.

Those links function about as well as your "arguments."

"A lot" of Curry and Warriors fans have not been downplaying Wiggins; in fact, it's mostly been the opposite. Whether or not you found a few outliers does not prove that it happened "a lot."

Of course, you don't care about being accurate or having a productive dialogue-- you only come here to to do drive-by troll takes devoid of substance, and you immediately vanish when called to task.

It's not my issue you didn't even bother reading those threads.

[SF_Warriors]

I dunno, Monta did it with such ease that it almost looked effortless.. almost as if he didnt care about winning the game at all

But you're talking to a Wiggins' fan, not a Warrior fan about it. Just like a Curry stan, or a Lin stan, or the countless other single player stans that have come through over the years.. Warriors fans care about the 5 on 5 game. Player fans care about how their guy looks. There's not much crossover in things to rationally discuss there

Monta was a better shot creator. Wiggins doesnt have nearly the handle or quickness to get shots up like that.

I mean, if wiggins played over 40mpg on one of the worst teams in the league, it would be plausible for him to average 25ppg. Of course that scenario would be very unlikely to happen which is why easily is not the right word here. Easily means he could do it for many teams. It would have to be the perfect combination of terribleness for it to even have a chance of happening, ergo, not easily done.

I was entirely joking, Monta didnt care about the W, only cared about getting his, because mediocre volume scorers can get 25 any time they want to, as long as no one cares about winning

Also Monta had terrible handles, Wiggins has him there by miles

How many mediocre wings have scored 25ppg? The only non all star that has averaged 25ppg in the past 20 years or so were dearon fox and monta, both guards. We all know wiggs is not a legit go to guy. He would need a lot of shots and minutes to average that

[JN61]

Monta was a better shot creator. Wiggins doesnt have nearly the handle or quickness to get shots up like that.

I mean, if wiggins played over 40mpg on one of the worst teams in the league, it would be plausible for him to average 25ppg. Of course that scenario would be very unlikely to happen which is why easily is not the right word here. Easily means he could do it for many teams. It would have to be the perfect combination of terribleness for it to even have a chance of happening, ergo, not easily done.

I was entirely joking, Monta didnt care about the W, only cared about getting his, because mediocre volume scorers can get 25 any time they want to, as long as no one cares about winning

Also Monta had terrible handles, Wiggins has him there by miles

How many mediocre wings have scored 25ppg? The only non all star that has averaged 25ppg in the past 20 years or so were dearon fox and monta, both guards. We all know wiggs is not a legit go to guy. He would need a lot of shots and minutes to average that

Never made all-stars you mean? Because a lot of players averaged that 25 PPG and didn't make all-star team that specific season.

[SF_Warriors]

I was entirely joking, Monta didnt care about the W, only cared about getting his, because mediocre volume scorers can get 25 any time they want to, as long as no one cares about winning

Also Monta had terrible handles, Wiggins has him there by miles

How many mediocre wings have scored 25ppg? The only non all star that has averaged 25ppg in the past 20 years or so were dearon fox and monta, both guards. We all know wiggs is not a legit go to guy. He would need a lot of shots and minutes to average that

Never made all-stars you mean? Because a lot of players averaged that 25 PPG and didn't make all-star team that specific season.

Most guys that averaged 25ppg even if they did not made the asg that season were multiple time all stars. It would be extremely rare for a fringe all star wing like wiggs to get 25ppg.

[rtiff68]

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2153193

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2161170

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2161176


A lot of usual suspect "fans" giving all credits to Curry or downplaying impact Wiggins had on their own team.

Those links function about as well as your "arguments."

"A lot" of Curry and Warriors fans have not been downplaying Wiggins; in fact, it's mostly been the opposite. Whether or not you found a few outliers does not prove that it happened "a lot."

Of course, you don't care about being accurate or having a productive dialogue-- you only come here to to do drive-by troll takes devoid of substance, and you immediately vanish when called to task.

It's not my issue you didn't even bother reading those threads.

Your “point” was stupid. You know that.

You posted “links” that weren’t hyperlinks. I’m not typing out an entire web address just to confirm that you’re a moron— you’ve proven that with thousands of posts on this board already.

[JN61]

How many mediocre wings have scored 25ppg? The only non all star that has averaged 25ppg in the past 20 years or so were dearon fox and monta, both guards. We all know wiggs is not a legit go to guy. He would need a lot of shots and minutes to average that

Never made all-stars you mean? Because a lot of players averaged that 25 PPG and didn't make all-star team that specific season.

Most guys that averaged 25ppg even if they did not made the asg that season were multiple time all stars. It would be extremely rare for a fringe all star wing like wiggs to get 25ppg.

Yes. Guy like Lillard came instantly to mind who averaged 25 and 27 PPG in back to back seasons if my memory serves me right. Was snubbed by Curry, Paul and Westbrook (and someone else) year after year.

However I don't think it's right to say it would be extremely rare for player of Wiggins quality to average 25ppg. He absolutely could as the main guy. Team isn't going anywhere but he 100% has capability and he has showed it already by averaging 24ppg earlier in his career.

[SF_Warriors]

Never made all-stars you mean? Because a lot of players averaged that 25 PPG and didn't make all-star team that specific season.

Most guys that averaged 25ppg even if they did not made the asg that season were multiple time all stars. It would be extremely rare for a fringe all star wing like wiggs to get 25ppg.

Yes. Guy like Lillard came instantly to mind who averaged 25 and 27 PPG in back to back seasons if my memory serves me right. Was snubbed by Curry, Paul and Westbrook (and someone else) year after year.

However I don't think it's right to say it would be extremely rare for player of Wiggins quality to average 25ppg. He absolutely could as the main guy. Team isn't going anywhere but he 100% has capability and he has showed it already by averaging 24ppg earlier in his career.

Its certainly not impossible..he would probably have to play a minimum of 39mpg. It would be fun to see him try. What team is giving 27 yr old wiggins 40mpg? Like I said, name one fringe all star that averaged 25ppg. Maybe one or two every ten years..rare..the years you referenced dame, he was a two time all star at that point. Theres really no precedence for a guy like wiggins to get 25ppg. Name one..dame doesnt count cmon man dude is a perennial all star. Just think about it for a sec..you are comparing wiggins to lillard

All these guys booker, mitchell, dame, lavine can average 25ppg for multiple years..u guys really think wiggins can do that?

[Zeitgeister]

The Wolves had to give up a first round pick to get rid of him, that should tell you what you need to know. It's nice he's doing well for the Warrriors, I think Fortnite isn't so popular anymore so he put the controller down and decided to take his talents to the hardwood.

[vagelis]

Most guys that averaged 25ppg even if they did not made the asg that season were multiple time all stars. It would be extremely rare for a fringe all star wing like wiggs to get 25ppg.

Yes. Guy like Lillard came instantly to mind who averaged 25 and 27 PPG in back to back seasons if my memory serves me right. Was snubbed by Curry, Paul and Westbrook (and someone else) year after year.

However I don't think it's right to say it would be extremely rare for player of Wiggins quality to average 25ppg. He absolutely could as the main guy. Team isn't going anywhere but he 100% has capability and he has showed it already by averaging 24ppg earlier in his career.

Its certainly not impossible..he would probably have to play a minimum of 39mpg. It would be fun to see him try. What team is giving 27 yr old wiggins 40mpg? Like I said, name one fringe all star that averaged 25ppg. Maybe one or two every ten years..rare..the years you referenced dame, he was a two time all star at that point. Theres really no precedence for a guy like wiggins to get 25ppg. Name one..dame doesnt count cmon man dude is a perennial all star. Just think about it for a sec..you are comparing wiggins to lillard

All these guys booker, mitchell, dame, lavine can average 25ppg for multiple years..u guys really think wiggins can do that?

As JN61 has said he already has averaged 23.6ppg when he was 21yo and more raw.
Why not now in his prime if he gets a same role?
Give him 19 fga that he averaged when he was 21 yo and he will produce around 25ppg

[lars_rosenberg]

Wiggs didn't play defense in Minny, so he had more energy to attack.

He's definitely capable of scoring way more than he does now, but you don't really want him to.

[gorz]

Wiggins is bashed on so much he's underrated at this point.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

It would make more sense for Wiggins to apologize to Minnesota. Nobody ever said he couldn’t be good.

[FNQ]

Yes. Guy like Lillard came instantly to mind who averaged 25 and 27 PPG in back to back seasons if my memory serves me right. Was snubbed by Curry, Paul and Westbrook (and someone else) year after year.

However I don't think it's right to say it would be extremely rare for player of Wiggins quality to average 25ppg. He absolutely could as the main guy. Team isn't going anywhere but he 100% has capability and he has showed it already by averaging 24ppg earlier in his career.

Its certainly not impossible..he would probably have to play a minimum of 39mpg. It would be fun to see him try. What team is giving 27 yr old wiggins 40mpg? Like I said, name one fringe all star that averaged 25ppg. Maybe one or two every ten years..rare..the years you referenced dame, he was a two time all star at that point. Theres really no precedence for a guy like wiggins to get 25ppg. Name one..dame doesnt count cmon man dude is a perennial all star. Just think about it for a sec..you are comparing wiggins to lillard

All these guys booker, mitchell, dame, lavine can average 25ppg for multiple years..u guys really think wiggins can do that?

As JN61 has said he already has averaged 23.6ppg when he was 21yo and more raw.
Why not now in his prime if he gets a same role?
Give him 19 fga that he averaged when he was 21 yo and he will produce around 25ppg

as long as no one's arguing that that would be a good idea for a winning team.. sure

[vagelis]

Its certainly not impossible..he would probably have to play a minimum of 39mpg. It would be fun to see him try. What team is giving 27 yr old wiggins 40mpg? Like I said, name one fringe all star that averaged 25ppg. Maybe one or two every ten years..rare..the years you referenced dame, he was a two time all star at that point. Theres really no precedence for a guy like wiggins to get 25ppg. Name one..dame doesnt count cmon man dude is a perennial all star. Just think about it for a sec..you are comparing wiggins to lillard

All these guys booker, mitchell, dame, lavine can average 25ppg for multiple years..u guys really think wiggins can do that?

As JN61 has said he already has averaged 23.6ppg when he was 21yo and more raw.
Why not now in his prime if he gets a same role?
Give him 19 fga that he averaged when he was 21 yo and he will produce around 25ppg

as long as no one's arguing that that would be a good idea for a winning team.. sure

I am happy we can agree to that he is capable doing it. Because he has already done it and now he is a more polished offensive player.

And the real question and the only one for me is if can do that for a winning team. You point the question very well.
Personally, although I like him, I cannot answer because I don't know.
I have not seen him be a primary option in a good team.
I have seen him be a primary option for a team of 20yr old players when he was 20 yr old.

[michaelm]

As JN61 has said he already has averaged 23.6ppg when he was 21yo and more raw.
Why not now in his prime if he gets a same role?
Give him 19 fga that he averaged when he was 21 yo and he will produce around 25ppg

as long as no one's arguing that that would be a good idea for a winning team.. sure

I am happy we can agree to that he is capable doing it. Because he has already done it and now he is a more polished offensive player.

And the real question and the only one for me is if can do that for a winning team. You point the question very well.
Personally, although I like him, I cannot answer because I don't know.
I have not seen him be a primary option in a good team.
I have seen him be a primary option for a team of 20yr old players when he was 20 yr old.

I am probably as big a fan of Wiggs as anybody other than you, but while I agree he could probably score 25 ppg if that was the main focus of his team, I like him in his current role which he seems to find agreeable as well. I might have to upgrade him to second most important on the team if Draymond doesn’t start concentrating more on basketball than podcasts and arguing with officials. I wouldn’t mind seeing Wiggs get a few more shots on nights he is really feeling it, but his defensive contribution and rebounding are more valuable for this team than him focusing more on scoring. He has been fairly clutch with his scoring as he is playing, and a reliable 17 or 18 points at reasonable efficiency while carrying the defensive load he does on a team with other shooters who can go ballistic is nothing to be sneered at anyway. Probably would need a better FT% and handle to be a true first option for a team which could contend strongly though.

[Ice Man]

Wiggins has progressed from being a bad NBA player to being the 3rd best player for a potential champion. I don't think anybody needs apologize to him, because he has received far more attention and been paid far more $$$ than a player of his contributions normally would, thanks to his draft position, but there's no question that he's now a good and useful player. I would be happy to have him on my team -- and those are words that I never envisoned myself writing. So, good job Andew.

[warriorschamps]

as long as no one's arguing that that would be a good idea for a winning team.. sure

I am happy we can agree to that he is capable doing it. Because he has already done it and now he is a more polished offensive player.

And the real question and the only one for me is if can do that for a winning team. You point the question very well.
Personally, although I like him, I cannot answer because I don't know.
I have not seen him be a primary option in a good team.
I have seen him be a primary option for a team of 20yr old players when he was 20 yr old.

I am probably as big a fan of Wiggs as anybody other than you, but while I agree he could probably score 25 ppg if that was the main focus of his team, I like him in his current role which he seems to find agreeable as well. I might have to upgrade him to second most important on the team if Draymond doesn’t start concentrating more on basketball than podcasts and arguing with officials. I wouldn’t mind seeing Wiggs get a few more shots on nights he is really feeling it, but his defensive contribution and rebounding is more valuable for this team than him focusing more on scoring. He has been fairly clutch with his scoring as he is playing, and a reliable 17 or 18 points at reasonable efficiency while carrying the defensive load he does on a team with other shooters who can go ballistic is nothing to be sneered at anyway. Probably would need a better FT% and handle to be a true first option for a team which could contend strongly though.

I pretty much agree with everything you said here. If Wiggins can continue to help on the boards, play good defense, hit timely and open shots and slash to the rim then he's A OK in my book. The Dubs don't need or won't him to be the 1st option on offense or to be a 25 ppg scorer but that's not a knock on Wiggins. He's played well in the role they asked him to play. He just have to keep it up.

I was probably one of the few people happy when the Warriors got him. I always knew Wiggins could play the type of basketball he's playing now if he ever got around folks with high basketball IQs like Curry, Kerr, Draymond, etc. that could point him in the right direction.

[tsherkin]

I pretty much agree with everything you said here. If Wiggins can continue to help on the boards, play good defense, hit timely and open shots and slash to the rim then he's A OK in my book. The Dubs don't need or won't him to be the 1st option on offense or to be a 25 ppg scorer but that's not a knock on Wiggins. He's played well in the role they asked him to play. He just have to keep it up.

I was probably one of the few people happy when the Warriors got him. I always knew Wiggins could play the type of basketball he's playing now if he ever got around folks with high basketball IQs like Curry, Kerr, Draymond, etc. that could point him in the right direction.

He looks good for the Dubs, man. They don't need him to be a hyper-efficient volume scorer. They need him to do what he's been doing: hit open C+S 3s, D up, be an acceptable rebounder and occasionally put some rim pressure on the D with drives. Even when he isn't successful in close, the rest of the team can take advantage if he's able to disrupt the D, and we saw that happen a bunch last game. He's doing pretty well in that role. Lower pressure, lower demand for anything but simple stuff, and it suits his skill and athletic profile pretty well. Wiggins, I think, has a little Vince Carter syndrome, too, in that he doesn't WANT to be hella aggressive most of the time. He kinda just wants to slot in and do his thing until and unless he gets his blood up. And that's fine where he is, he's adding positive value to the Warriors.