Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Boston Celtics

[brettski]

I don't think an NBA coach would risk lying about a conversation he had with a referee.

I can see very little character and personality in ime... to me lying is right up his alley... I think Udoka is the total opposite of Brad and that is why he hired him... he just doesn't look like a winner...let ime go, the Celtics can't do it now, 2 or 3 seasons more...

then again there is 20% chance a miscalculation with him, he's got great teachers and a great name

If anything they just need to play stronger with the ball not caught looking to get fouls especially Tatum.

Final game I think there were at least two plays where Smart fell to the ground hoping to draw an offensive foul that resulted in a clean look for a warrior. One was a Steph 3.

[xdrta+]

I feel like Boston really need to work hard on their flopping. If they sold the fake fouls more they probably win the championship. That is there one area to really improve on next year. They've got to stop trying to play good defence and fall on the ground more instead.

I presume that's meant as a joke, but in fact earlier in the postseason a ref told Udoka that Boston wasn't getting calls because guys weren't falling to the floor eough.

I don't believe a ref would say something that dumb... anyway this Celtics fake enough, that was not the issue, issue was for meeting a better team

If the Celtics want to beat a better team ...have to pay better ...you can't fake that

After gm 3 with Milwaukee, not during the presser but later, Udoka was reported as saying, “If they don’t fall down, we’re not going to call it,” Udoka said the officials told him. “I guess they want guys to flop more.”

Personally, I doubt a ref actually said that, Udoka was trying some sort of gamesmanship. He had already ripped the refs during the postgame presser. I never heard, did he ever get fined for his comments postgame? Coaches have been fined for less.

[LewisnotMiller]

haha, celtics fold damp and smelly like a cheap diaper! Celtic fans brokenhearted again cause if they don't get the championship then the season was a complete failure as we all know! This was ur chance for the next 10-20 years. We might not live to see celtics there again!

Quality post. Thus is the sort of nuanced basketball understanding I come here for.

[hugepatsfan]

Spacing. Spacing. Spacing. That's gotta be the tagline of this offseason for me. We spend so much time talking about another playmaker because Tatum/Brown/Smart all struggle playing through traffic. Let me tell you something, any ball handler/playmaker we add for a TPE/MLE and what project to be late 1sts is going to struggle playing through traffic inside. Because that's how basketball works. It is very hard to get inside and play through traffic. It's much more effective to have good spacing that minimizes the traffic inside or minimizes the need to go inside and play through the traffic.

I don't care what the percentages say, neither Horford nor Grant Williams are feared from the 3 point line by defenses. Al Horford played 35 minutes per game in the playoffs. Grant played 27. The two big lineups are definitely effective, but we shouldn't play them THAT much. I think Horford needs his role cut back anyway due to age and coming off a deep playoff run vs. a year off like he had last year. I'd plan for him to be more of a 25 minute guy than 35 minutes next year in the playoffs. And Grant should be more like 20. So take those minutes off of what they played this year and add a stretch 4 for an extra 18-20 minutes/game. I've mentioned Otto Porter Jr. (MLE signing) but could be other guys. Get someone who's a more natural shooter to help bring some more floor spacing.

Pritchard played 13 minutes a game in the playoffs. He's just flat out not a playoff rotation caliber player. Replace him with a more reputable shooter. Tatum played 41 minutes/game and Brown played 38 minutes a game in the playoffs. I get that those guys are younger, but for comparison Curry played 36. Slashing a few minute off those guys would help their 4th quarter fatigue. So add those minutes to the shooter you replace Pritchard with. And beyond that, Smart played 36. White played 25... that resulted in too much of them together which is weak spacing. So slash a few minutes off each again and give to the new shooter. Between Pritchard's rotation spot and a minute or two taken from the rest you've now carved out a 20+ minutes/game role for a shooter. I keep mentioning Kevin Huerter (give up our 2023 1st and take him into the Evan Fournier trade exception) but number of guys could fit the role.

I think if you target those two areas and carve out the roles I described then you can run it back with the same top 7 players we have. I think the expanded rotation would have the benefit of keeping guys fresher over the long playoff run and during the 4th quarters of games. But most importantly, it will inject some much improved floor spacing to our offense over the course of the game. There will either be less traffic inside or less of a need to intentionally drive into that traffic.

I don’t think cutting back 3 minutes or so for Brown and Tatum does much, they just just need to be better with conditioning.

They are missing some shots that they usually make and missing free throws in this series is a no go.

Brown at 38 minutes a game isn't really a problem. I think Tatum at 41 minutes a game is an issue though. It's only 3 minutes in an individual game, but there's a cumulative impact of that over a 24 game playoff run like that had. Especially because he has a ton of offensive responsibility and he's a legitimate two-way guy who isn't given breaks or hidden on defense to preserve energy.

Not saying it's the magic key to unlock everything, but I do think that one of the benefits you'd get by adding another playoff rotation-viable perimeter player is chopping a few minutes per game off Tatum's workload. I think it'd have some marginally positive impact on his productivity.

[Bostondave]

Too bad the world didn't get to see the Celtics at their best. It just never happened. Because at their best they would've killed the Warriors. I don't remember one alley-oop to Timelord. Not one. I think I remember I think Brown attempted to give him one and he tapped it right back to him. Like saying "nope nah noway buddy" and that was that. Personally I think his team helped blow out his knee. They were throwing half-court alley opps to the guy and he was slamming it home. They would throw the ball up in the general vicinity of the hoop and that guy would slam it home virtually every time. That's when the Celts were flying at their best. It was weird because it seemed to effect the entire team. Everyone was a better player when he was in and on.

***Those barely in control drives to the hoop from Tatum, and sometimes by Brown and even Smart, would have been alley oops, bailing them out and resulting in two points and maybe some And1's,.

[Jerry Maine]

Sure

Better luck next time eh?

[Bostondave]

Yes, a bit of luck is common.

[Michael Jordan]

Horford played amazing but he'll be 37 next season so perhaps they think about upgrading/replacing him.

As long as Milwaukee has Giannis, Boston needs Horford. I expect his minutes to be low next year to keep him fresh for the playoffs. But yeah, this Boston team can’t beat Milwaukee without Horford currently.

He’s there for Embiid as well.

Embiid struggles so much when Horford is playing.

After the Raps won a ring in 2019, Marc Gasol had a pretty big drop in production and he was only 34-35. Deep post-season runs will do that to old players.

Like I said Horford played amazing throughout the playoffs but he'll be 37 next year. C's might need to upgrade/replace him for young legs.

[wco81]

Too bad the world didn't get to see the Celtics at their best. It just never happened. Because at their best they would've killed the Warriors. I don't remember one alley-oop to Timelord. Not one. I think I remember I think Brown attempted to give him one and he tapped it right back to him. Like saying "nope nah noway buddy" and that was that. Personally I think his team helped blow out his knee. They were throwing half-court alley opps to the guy and he was slamming it home. They would throw the ball up in the general vicinity of the hoop and that guy would slam it home virtually every time. That's when the Celts were flying at their best. It was weird because it seemed to effect the entire team. Everyone was a better player when he was in and on.

***Those barely in control drives to the hoop from Tatum, and sometimes by Brown and even Smart, would have been alley oops, bailing them out and resulting in two points and maybe some And1's,.

I remember a couple of alley oops in the first 3 games. One was from Horford to Timelord.

Warriors are pretty good about not giving up alley oops in general, it's a lot of awareness and they will box out the vertical threat so he can't get to the rim.

Or worse comes to worse they will concede the layup attempt to the guy who would have thrown the oop than get the big dunk, which would energize the opponents.

I didn't see Timelord that hobbled, he got plenty of blocks. He got a couple of chase down blocks on Curry who blew by him and thought he was home free. But Curry got his too, because when you have a center out beyond the arc, there's just too much room for a guard with good handle and good finishing to get layups.

Where the lob would be very effective is if Tatum got doubled and they're able to play 4 on 3 with someone going downhill towards the rim. Warriors threw in some traps and blitzes of Tatum here and there but not regularly enough so that Celtics were ready for it. Celtics did that a couple of times to Curry an Warriors got layups out of it so they didn't do it too much.


As dominant as the Celtics were in January and February, teams are going to adopt to the Celtics scheme, which was to have Williams roam off a non shooter for help defense, since he could cover so much ground. Fortunately for the Warriors, he did well enough when switched to Williams on the perimeter. Celtics are difficult to score against in half court offense but if Timelord could guard elite perimeter players one on one as well as rotate to the rim to block shots, they'd be impossible to score against.

We will see if other teams adjust next season.

[LewisnotMiller]

Brown at 38 minutes a game isn't really a problem. I think Tatum at 41 minutes a game is an issue though. It's only 3 minutes in an individual game, but there's a cumulative impact of that over a 24 game playoff run like that had. Especially because he has a ton of offensive responsibility and he's a legitimate two-way guy who isn't given breaks or hidden on defense to preserve energy.

Not saying it's the magic key to unlock everything, but I do think that one of the benefits you'd get by adding another playoff rotation-viable perimeter player is chopping a few minutes per game off Tatum's workload. I think it'd have some marginally positive impact on his productivity.

Yeah, I tend to think of our rotation as being one guy short. When everyone is healthy and fresh, it probably isn't but in reality when is everyone healthy and fresh?

Tatum playing 38 or 41 doesn't make much difference I suspect. But his clutch minutes...when the pressure to make the correct decision is at its highest...are obviously minutes 38-41 of that. So whether it has a meaningful impact on his overall efficiency and stats is less important to me than positioning him to be as clear-headed and decisive as possible at the end of the game.

[LewisnotMiller]

As long as Milwaukee has Giannis, Boston needs Horford. I expect his minutes to be low next year to keep him fresh for the playoffs. But yeah, this Boston team can’t beat Milwaukee without Horford currently.

He’s there for Embiid as well.

Embiid struggles so much when Horford is playing.

After the Raps won a ring in 2019, Marc Gasol had a pretty big drop in production and he was only 34-35. Deep post-season runs will do that to old players.

Like I said Horford played amazing throughout the playoffs but he'll be 37 next year. C's might need to upgrade/replace him for young legs.

I think he'll be okay, but all Celts fans have seen games where Al's legs are looking tired/old. At best, those are going to be more frequent, so even if his rotation spot is basically the same, I agree with you that we need to be bolstering this part of our playing list now.

If I'm wrong, and he has no drop of AT ALL, it still is just delaying the inevitable. It's our next most obvious roster building need, particularly when you throw in Theis' age and limitations, and Rob's knees.

[wco81]

Coaches try to load manage their stars under 35 MPG throughout the season.

Kerr has gotten some heat for sticking to his rotations for Curry rather than playing him more minutes in game to win a few more games. He cites data showing that there's greater risk of injury the more minutes players log.

A couple of minutes doesn't seem like much but over 65-75 games or whatever a load managed player plays, it apparently makes a statistically significant difference.

[hugepatsfan]

Brown at 38 minutes a game isn't really a problem. I think Tatum at 41 minutes a game is an issue though. It's only 3 minutes in an individual game, but there's a cumulative impact of that over a 24 game playoff run like that had. Especially because he has a ton of offensive responsibility and he's a legitimate two-way guy who isn't given breaks or hidden on defense to preserve energy.

Not saying it's the magic key to unlock everything, but I do think that one of the benefits you'd get by adding another playoff rotation-viable perimeter player is chopping a few minutes per game off Tatum's workload. I think it'd have some marginally positive impact on his productivity.

Yeah, I tend to think of our rotation as being one guy short. When everyone is healthy and fresh, it probably isn't but in reality when is everyone healthy and fresh?

Tatum playing 38 or 41 doesn't make much difference I suspect. But his clutch minutes...when the pressure to make the correct decision is at its highest...are obviously minutes 38-41 of that. So whether it has a meaningful impact on his overall efficiency and stats is less important to me than positioning him to be as clear-headed and decisive as possible at the end of the game.

Tatum played 983 minutes in these playoffs. That ties him with 2012 Lebron James for the most minutes played in a single playoffs over the last 14 years. Paul Pierce during our championship year was the last time someone played more minutes in a single post season.

Most years the season’s playoff leader is below 900 for that one playoffs. I find it hard to believe that that there isn’t SOME cumulative impact of that on Tatum. Young as he is, he’s still human. His body fatigues just like anyone else’s does. Especially considering he’s a guy tasked with difficult responsibilities on the defensive end - no hiding and conserving energy for him there.

If you dropped 3 minutes/game off this year he’d have played 911 minutes. That takes him from a minutes workload that’s tied for the most out of the last 14 years and puts it in a range that’s been met multiple times. Not saying you get a world of difference but I find it hard to believe there wouldn’t be SOME positive impact to that.

[Teen Girl Squad]

Coaches try to load manage their stars under 35 MPG throughout the season.

Kerr has gotten some heat for sticking to his rotations for Curry rather than playing him more minutes in game to win a few more games. He cites data showing that there's greater risk of injury the more minutes players log.

A couple of minutes doesn't seem like much but over 65-75 games or whatever a load managed player plays, it apparently makes a statistically significant difference.

I also think the Celtics pulled the Thibs card this season and fueled their run with high minutes, high effort defensive intensity. Much like those Bulls teams, this lead to an amazing defense and run but their legs gave out by the finals. Will they have the foresight to manage both minutes and defensive intensity next year to keep guys fresh or will they be tempted to really crush the regular season to prove themselves and potentially set themselves up to underperform late?

[Miami_Lux]

Too bad the world didn't get to see the Celtics at their best. It just never happened. Because at their best they would've killed the Warriors. I don't remember one alley-oop to Timelord. Not one. I think I remember I think Brown attempted to give him one and he tapped it right back to him. Like saying "nope nah noway buddy" and that was that. Personally I think his team helped blow out his knee. They were throwing half-court alley opps to the guy and he was slamming it home. They would throw the ball up in the general vicinity of the hoop and that guy would slam it home virtually every time. That's when the Celts were flying at their best. It was weird because it seemed to effect the entire team. Everyone was a better player when he was in and on.

***Those barely in control drives to the hoop from Tatum, and sometimes by Brown and even Smart, would have been alley oops, bailing them out and resulting in two points and maybe some And1's,.

I m sure Bucks fan would say the same thing about them missing Middleton. Injuries are a part of the game. Besides compared to their other two main EC opponents (Bucks and Heat) the Celtics actually got relatively spared from injuries.

[hippesthippo]

Tatum had 5.4 assists/game or more in each postseason series, 7.0 vs. the Warriors, and >6 for the whole postseason. Yeah, the TOs were horrendous, but there's a considerable base of passing ability there.

Ehhhh those numbers are kind of inflated playing 41 minutes/game and spending way too much time with the ball.

But yes, he's improved on it since entering the league. Still not a guy I'd want as my lead ball handler.

[LewisnotMiller]

Brown at 38 minutes a game isn't really a problem. I think Tatum at 41 minutes a game is an issue though. It's only 3 minutes in an individual game, but there's a cumulative impact of that over a 24 game playoff run like that had. Especially because he has a ton of offensive responsibility and he's a legitimate two-way guy who isn't given breaks or hidden on defense to preserve energy.

Not saying it's the magic key to unlock everything, but I do think that one of the benefits you'd get by adding another playoff rotation-viable perimeter player is chopping a few minutes per game off Tatum's workload. I think it'd have some marginally positive impact on his productivity.

Yeah, I tend to think of our rotation as being one guy short. When everyone is healthy and fresh, it probably isn't but in reality when is everyone healthy and fresh?

Tatum playing 38 or 41 doesn't make much difference I suspect. But his clutch minutes...when the pressure to make the correct decision is at its highest...are obviously minutes 38-41 of that. So whether it has a meaningful impact on his overall efficiency and stats is less important to me than positioning him to be as clear-headed and decisive as possible at the end of the game.

Tatum played 983 minutes in these playoffs. That ties him with 2012 Lebron James for the most minutes played in a single playoffs over the last 14 years. Paul Pierce during our championship year was the last time someone played more minutes in a single post season.

Most years the season’s playoff leader is below 900 for that one playoffs. I find it hard to believe that that there isn’t SOME cumulative impact of that on Tatum. Young as he is, he’s still human. His body fatigues just like anyone else’s does. Especially considering he’s a guy tasked with difficult responsibilities on the defensive end - no hiding and conserving energy for him there.

If you dropped 3 minutes/game off this year he’d have played 911 minutes. That takes him from a minutes workload that’s tied for the most out of the last 14 years and puts it in a range that’s been met multiple times. Not saying you get a world of difference but I find it hard to believe there wouldn’t be SOME positive impact to that.

Yeah, I might have worded it clumsily...I get lazy when typing on a phone, but I basically agree it could have an impact.

My point was more that I think the impact is mental first, more so than physical.
One way to encourage him to make good decisions and play with more force in the clutch is to slightly reduce his minutes. Three minutes a game doesn't sound like much in terms of overall effort, but you're basically removing his most mentally and physically tired three minutes.

[Son Goku 25]

Horford tried lol doubt he'll be back to this level again but if he is then they have a great chance at coming back to finals

[robdog_5]

Horford tried lol doubt he'll be back to this level again but if he is then they have a great chance at coming back to finals

They need another guy to help carry that load for Al. He was also coming off a year he only played like 35 games. To me that is one pressing need. If Grant can continue to improve and diversify his game he can absorb some. Still need one more IMO.

[NO-KG-AI]

I think this team needs a legitimate creator and PG who can set the table, control tempo, and get the offense into a flow when things get shaky. I can't think of a team this good in recent memory that has needed this more (maybe the Clippers, but I think this team has been better than the actual iterations of the PG/Kawhi Clippers). They just look so disjointed and struggle to create easy looks on offense for too many long stretches.