Jerry West pretty much destroys JJ Redick

[WRau1]

Read a book and you would know.

Still you're opinion.

No, it's Wilt's factual story. Why are you being difficult?

It's Wilt's factual story that yesterday's athlete's bodies could keep up w/ the training regiment of today? Interesting. Doesn't seem like an opinion at all...

[Onlytimewilltel]

I think JJ was most correct when he said "Celebrate them in their own era, don't compare to different eras". We have no clue how any of the old generations bodies would hold up to today's training or if they even have the ethic to play year round. And we have no clue if today's players would be mentally strong enough to play in an era where racism was far more rampant than today and no modern amenities. I also don't understand how the topic changed from what Redick said to now he has no room to speak because he "only" averaged 12ppg. Seems like a weird argument.

They used to play back to back to backs, and no one load managed. Of course they would hold up.

That's your opinion, we have zero way to know that.

We also have zero way of knowing if todays pu**y players would be able to hold up to play the game back in the day and also work jobs to support their families if they even have the “ethic” to do that …. We have zero way to know that.

[WRau1]

The actual quote is "The great players could play in any era" -- he doesn't say they would be great or good, just said they could play. It's a bit ambiguous, and it was while Reddick was a bit in his feels defending his old teammate. He went too far in my opinion.

This is a pretty big reach. It's extremely common for any newer generation player to respond with "they can play" when asked if someone was any good. It's a compliment.

[DonaldSanders]

The actual quote is "The great players could play in any era" -- he doesn't say they would be great or good, just said they could play. It's a bit ambiguous, and it was while Reddick was a bit in his feels defending his old teammate. He went too far in my opinion.

This is a pretty big reach. It's extremely common for any newer generation player to respond with "they can play" when asked if someone was any good. It's a compliment.

Given the context of indirectly calling Jerry West a fireman or a plumber, it's really not. Can play is ambiguous.

[ReddoverKobe]

They used to play back to back to backs, and no one load managed. Of course they would hold up.

That's your opinion, we have zero way to know that.

We also have zero way of knowing if todays pu**y players would be able to hold up to play the game back in the day and also work jobs to support their families if they even have the “ethic” to do that …. We have zero way to know that.

How are todays players quote "pussys"?

[SecondTake]

You have to love the arrogance of modern athletes. Who is to say that Jim Thorpe or Jesse Owens would not be the greatest athletes if they were alive today?

Modern athletes benefit from a host of things, modern medicine, scientific advances, better equipment, etc... when my grandfather was playing sports they told them not to drink water! Heck there was an Olympic marathon once were the runners were nearly killed by idiotic advice. So yes, of course these guys were not putting up the numbers we see today. What this doesn't mean though is that given what modern athletes have to work with today they wouldn't be capable of the same things, or... even better things.

That's not how we should look at it. We shouldn't give older players modern advancements in imaginary comparisons. Fact is they didn't have then so compare them as they were to players today. They sucked. Period.

Sent from my SM-S908W using RealGM mobile app

[KrAzY3]

You have to love the arrogance of modern athletes. Who is to say that Jim Thorpe or Jesse Owens would not be the greatest athletes if they were alive today?

Modern athletes benefit from a host of things, modern medicine, scientific advances, better equipment, etc... when my grandfather was playing sports they told them not to drink water! Heck there was an Olympic marathon once were the runners were nearly killed by idiotic advice. So yes, of course these guys were not putting up the numbers we see today. What this doesn't mean though is that given what modern athletes have to work with today they wouldn't be capable of the same things, or... even better things.

That's not how we should look at it. We shouldn't give older players modern advancements in imaginary comparisons. Fact is they didn't have then so compare them as they were to players today. They sucked. Period.

Sent from my SM-S908W using RealGM mobile app

That's complete and utter nonsense.

If LeBron James was born then he wouldn't have all his nutrition, medical advancement, training equipment, what ever supplements he's been taking, etc... (he wouldn't even know what he knows now). How about Steph Curry, dude has bad ankles that would be treated with vastly inferior medicine and nutrition, and there would be no three point line. Obviously guys moving forward get the new stuff to play with in the same way guys going back wouldn't get all the current stuff they have because none of that would be available.

If we compare past athletes to current athletes we have to imagine them meeting on in the very least equal footing. The idea that for instance one guy had to wear shoes made in the 1950s while playing against someone wearing shoes from 2022, that's just absolutely ridiculous.

[sikma42]

You have to love the arrogance of modern athletes. Who is to say that Jim Thorpe or Jesse Owens would not be the greatest athletes if they were alive today?

Modern athletes benefit from a host of things, modern medicine, scientific advances, better equipment, etc... when my grandfather was playing sports they told them not to drink water! Heck there was an Olympic marathon once were the runners were nearly killed by idiotic advice. So yes, of course these guys were not putting up the numbers we see today. What this doesn't mean though is that given what modern athletes have to work with today they wouldn't be capable of the same things, or... even better things.

That's not how we should look at it. We shouldn't give older players modern advancements in imaginary comparisons. Fact is they didn't have then so compare them as they were to players today. They sucked. Period.

Sent from my SM-S908W using RealGM mobile app

It doesn’t make sense to do that. Put 26 ur old Jerry West in the NBA and 27 year old Jerry West would have a modern package. It doesn’t take that much to upgrade from his game to now. It’s an off season or two at most. He is a 25-30 pov scorer.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[ninjamilk23]

I wonder what Jerry West think of Stephen A. Smith and Chris Russo since they both have a combined of 0 PPG in NBA.

[ninjamilk23]

They used to play back to back to backs, and no one load managed. Of course they would hold up.

That's your opinion, we have zero way to know that.

We also have zero way of knowing if todays pu**y players would be able to hold up to play the game back in the day and also work jobs to support their families if they even have the “ethic” to do that …. We have zero way to know that.

Lol. How old are you?

[og15]

Unless he did a 2nd interview I thought he said he just talking about the average players back then and not the few all time greats? Seems like some faux outrage on West's part.

Well most of the focus has been on the quote and many without context. For example, there are posts in this thread countering Redick by saying that all time greats would still be good, but Redick said that already, which means many people also understood or believed something different from what even Redick said.

So yes, a lot of response and reaction is going to be to just the quote and not his whole argument in context.

Redick's gotta know not to throw lines out like that though if he doesn't want people taking them out of context.

I'm assuming it wasn't a thought through comment and was just part of the argument in the moment.

[Purch]

I have no issue comparing players from the 80's-10's. To me the differences I see in those players are more about rule changes, and how the game was play (Mid range/Iso/Post) versus (3 pointers/spacing). In the 90's players might maximize their strength for post defense, whiles a player today might maximize their quickness for help defense.

To me the 60's/70's are a lot diffrent and harder for me to translate. But I respect them based on what they accomplished in their era

[Onlytimewilltel]

That's your opinion, we have zero way to know that.

We also have zero way of knowing if todays pu**y players would be able to hold up to play the game back in the day and also work jobs to support their families if they even have the “ethic” to do that …. We have zero way to know that.

Lol. How old are you?

Eleven

[WRau1]

The actual quote is "The great players could play in any era" -- he doesn't say they would be great or good, just said they could play. It's a bit ambiguous, and it was while Reddick was a bit in his feels defending his old teammate. He went too far in my opinion.

This is a pretty big reach. It's extremely common for any newer generation player to respond with "they can play" when asked if someone was any good. It's a compliment.

Given the context of indirectly calling Jerry West a fireman or a plumber, it's really not. Can play is ambiguous.

Still a reach. Before the plumbers and fireman comment, he said the greats could play in any era.

[WRau1]

They used to play back to back to backs, and no one load managed. Of course they would hold up.

That's your opinion, we have zero way to know that.

We also have zero way of knowing if todays pu**y players would be able to hold up to play the game back in the day and also work jobs to support their families if they even have the “ethic” to do that …. We have zero way to know that.

No ****, that's the entire point.

[SecondTake]

You have to love the arrogance of modern athletes. Who is to say that Jim Thorpe or Jesse Owens would not be the greatest athletes if they were alive today?

Modern athletes benefit from a host of things, modern medicine, scientific advances, better equipment, etc... when my grandfather was playing sports they told them not to drink water! Heck there was an Olympic marathon once were the runners were nearly killed by idiotic advice. So yes, of course these guys were not putting up the numbers we see today. What this doesn't mean though is that given what modern athletes have to work with today they wouldn't be capable of the same things, or... even better things.

That's not how we should look at it. We shouldn't give older players modern advancements in imaginary comparisons. Fact is they didn't have then so compare them as they were to players today. They sucked. Period.

Sent from my SM-S908W using RealGM mobile app

It doesn’t make sense to do that. Put 26 ur old Jerry West in the NBA and 27 year old Jerry West would have a modern package. It doesn’t take that much to upgrade from his game to now. It’s an off season or two at most. He is a 25-30 pov scorer.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Take Jerry West from his heyday and make him play a game tomorrow and see how good he looks. It'd be bad.

Sent from my SM-S908W using RealGM mobile app

[PizzaSteve]

I looked at clips of the guys playing in the 60s and it's laughable. Missed layups from running at 100% full speed, guards shooting 15ft hooks, etc. Jerry West has absolutely no right to talk down on Redick considering high school Redick was probably a better player than peak West.

Clown

Among the worst takes I have ever read. The lack of awareness is truly representative of why West had to speak up.

The problem for me is not JJs relatively intelligent podcasts. The problem is when you seek hot take language, lazy idiots repeat it. Guys without JJ's knowledge or context. Just this week I heard stupid tier B talking sports heads repeating the 'plumbers' comments word for word, exact phrasing. And stating as fact that these guys were horrible lazy and unathletic, etc, repeating the 'proof' that these people had the nerve to work during the off season as plumbers and firemen (like young dudes during off hours on a local sports talk). Its like almost every olympic athlete today is similar, but I guess they all suck too and should be disrespected because they 'aint rich like us.'

That is the issue with what JJ said. People are too stupid and lazy to actually study history and just repeat what they've heard. Because of this the world treats people a certain way.

Average young sports fans are, to stereotype, often frustrated insecure young men who are looking for excuses to make fun of people, often those with accomplishments, because they are insecure and never accomplished much themselves. That is what they want to believe, to lower others to their own level of inadequacy. Their lack of success is because their 'era' is so advanced and difficult and that Jerry West or Cousey wouldnt have started on their high school team.

It is absurd. It is the same mentality that had generation of the past (and sadly many still) sincerely believe that people descendent from africa, ireland, Italy, jews or muslims, women or disabled were inferior and deserved the 'disrespect from their betters.'

[AussieRules]

imagine we use this same logic in other areas. Kia cars aren't really better than cars made in the 1950s because kia isn't considered a good brand amongst its peers.

West played in the 60s & 70s. I’d take any 1970s Mercedes Benz over modern Kia’s any day of the week. 1970s Mercedes Benz probably buys at least 5 modern day Kias so the market agrees with West’s logic.

[KrAzY3]

That's not how we should look at it. We shouldn't give older players modern advancements in imaginary comparisons. Fact is they didn't have then so compare them as they were to players today. They sucked. Period.

Sent from my SM-S908W using RealGM mobile app

It doesn’t make sense to do that. Put 26 ur old Jerry West in the NBA and 27 year old Jerry West would have a modern package. It doesn’t take that much to upgrade from his game to now. It’s an off season or two at most. He is a 25-30 pov scorer.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Take Jerry West from his heyday and make him play a game tomorrow and see how good he looks. It'd be bad.

Sent from my SM-S908W using RealGM mobile app

I'm not sure what your point is? If I put Steph Curry into a game from the 1960s he'd be called for traveling every time he had the basketball. Obviously any player would need to adjust to a new era, depriving them of that while limiting it to the era of your choice is deliberately skewing the results.

The whole point is that the differences are so significant that you can't just swap a player from one era to another without some sort of an adjustment period. Tell a modern player to play an entire basketball game without drinking any water and see how he handles it, remember LeBron and his cramps from the Finals? That happened to him from playing in a slightly warmer arena. Transport him to a time where they didn't hydrate players properly or have air conditioning and see how he does. If you make him play a game the day he arrived in that time he'd cramp up and not be able to play at all. That's unfair but you want to do unfair...

[BlackThought]

imagine we use this same logic in other areas. Kia cars aren't really better than cars made in the 1950s because kia isn't considered a good brand amongst its peers.

West played in the 60s & 70s. I’d take any 1970s Mercedes Benz over modern Kia’s any day of the week. 1970s Mercedes Benz probably buys at least 5 modern day Kias so the market agrees with West’s logic.

right....because how much things cost isn't suppose to be based on its performance.