ESPN NBA top 100 for 2022

[Cubbies2120]

No, I am saying Curry elevates his team mates.

So in the example I provided where they went 4-2 without him in the playoffs, and in one of the wins with him outscored the Rockets by 27 without him...was he elevating them from the locker room?

What other top 25 player in NBA history has had that luxury to be able to comfortably sit out and watch his team win playoff games in the 1st and 2nd rounds easily without them? In those first 8 games of the playoffs:

Game 1: Curry leaves game with 9:12 remaining in 3rd quarter, up 26. Warriors win by 26.
Game 2: Curry doesn't play, Warriors by 9
Game 3: Curry doesn't play, Rockets by 1
Game 4: Curry plays 18 mins, tie game when he leaves, Warriors win by 27 without him.
Game 5: Curry doesn't play, Warriors win by 33.

Round 2 vs. Blazers:
Game 1: Curry doesn't play, Warriors by 12
Game 2: Curry doesn't play, Warriors by 11
Game 3: Curry doesn't play, Blazers by 12

In those games, Warriors are +79 when Curry exits the game / doesn't play. Pretty much no other Top 25 player could comfortably sit out like that...

[nikster]

Faced teams led by First Team All-NBA players: Anthony Davis (went on to win a championship 2020), Marc Gasol (went on to win a championship 2019), LeBron James (went on to win a championship 2016). Yeah I think Curry has a case that he faced more talented and better opposition.

That’s your best argument for Curry having better competition? Is this a joke?

Aside from saying is this a joke do you have a point? No? I thought not.

I don't think you'll find a single soul on this board who thinks that's a reasonable way for assessing strength of competition. The Pelicans were mediocre despite having a good player, Gasol went on to win a title as the 5th best player on a different team.

In the Finals Curry went up against a rotation of Tristan Thomson, Jr Smith, Timofey Mozgov, Delly, Shumpert and James Jones. That's probably the worst Finals rotation of all time. Only way that's tough competition is if you think Lebron is so much better than Curry that the rest of the rotation doesn't matter

[michaelm]

No, I am saying Curry elevates his team mates.

So in the example I provided where they went 4-2 without him in the playoffs, and in one of the wins with him outscored the Rockets by 27 without him...was he elevating them from the locker room?

What other top 25 player in NBA history has had that luxury to be able to comfortably sit out and watch his team win playoff games in the 1st and 2nd rounds easily without them? In those first 8 games of the playoffs:

Game 1: Curry leaves game with 9:12 remaining in 3rd quarter, up 26. Warriors win by 26.
Game 2: Curry doesn't play, Warriors by 9
Game 3: Curry doesn't play, Rockets by 1
Game 4: Curry plays 18 mins, tie game when he leaves, Warriors win by 27 without him.
Game 5: Curry doesn't play, Warriors win by 33.

Round 2 vs. Blazers:
Game 1: Curry doesn't play, Warriors by 12
Game 2: Curry doesn't play, Warriors by 11
Game 3: Curry doesn't play, Blazers by 12

In those games, Warriors are +79 when Curry exits the game / doesn't play. Pretty much no other Top 25 player could comfortably sit out like that...

So the Rockets and Blazers weren’t very good.

As I recall he and his team made 6 finals series, not 1.

[76ciology]

Sixers
4th Embiid
11th Harden
44th Maxey
56th Tobias

[Cubbies2120]

No, I am saying Curry elevates his team mates.

So in the example I provided where they went 4-2 without him in the playoffs, and in one of the wins with him outscored the Rockets by 27 without him...was he elevating them from the locker room?

What other top 25 player in NBA history has had that luxury to be able to comfortably sit out and watch his team win playoff games in the 1st and 2nd rounds easily without them? In those first 8 games of the playoffs:

Game 1: Curry leaves game with 9:12 remaining in 3rd quarter, up 26. Warriors win by 26.
Game 2: Curry doesn't play, Warriors by 9
Game 3: Curry doesn't play, Rockets by 1
Game 4: Curry plays 18 mins, tie game when he leaves, Warriors win by 27 without him.
Game 5: Curry doesn't play, Warriors win by 33.

Round 2 vs. Blazers:
Game 1: Curry doesn't play, Warriors by 12
Game 2: Curry doesn't play, Warriors by 11
Game 3: Curry doesn't play, Blazers by 12

In those games, Warriors are +79 when Curry exits the game / doesn't play. Pretty much no other Top 25 player could comfortably sit out like that...

So the Rockets and Blazers weren’t very good.

As I recall he and his team made 6 finals series, not 1.

Yep, and he won FMVP in one of those 6 Finals. Not a great track record.

We saw what happened when FMVP KD went out (after the organization rushed him back) - the dreams of a threepeat went out the window.

[rtiff68]

So in the example I provided where they went 4-2 without him in the playoffs, and in one of the wins with him outscored the Rockets by 27 without him...was he elevating them from the locker room?

What other top 25 player in NBA history has had that luxury to be able to comfortably sit out and watch his team win playoff games in the 1st and 2nd rounds easily without them? In those first 8 games of the playoffs:

Game 1: Curry leaves game with 9:12 remaining in 3rd quarter, up 26. Warriors win by 26.
Game 2: Curry doesn't play, Warriors by 9
Game 3: Curry doesn't play, Rockets by 1
Game 4: Curry plays 18 mins, tie game when he leaves, Warriors win by 27 without him.
Game 5: Curry doesn't play, Warriors win by 33.

Round 2 vs. Blazers:
Game 1: Curry doesn't play, Warriors by 12
Game 2: Curry doesn't play, Warriors by 11
Game 3: Curry doesn't play, Blazers by 12

In those games, Warriors are +79 when Curry exits the game / doesn't play. Pretty much no other Top 25 player could comfortably sit out like that...

So the Rockets and Blazers weren’t very good.

As I recall he and his team made 6 finals series, not 1.

Yep, and he won FMVP in one of those 6 Finals. Not a great track record.

We saw what happened when FMVP KD went out (after the organization rushed him back) - the dreams of a threepeat went out the window.

As a Cubs fan, I’m not surprised that you have difficulty identifying what greatness and winning look like.

[jbk1234]

I'll say this, the pundit lists in general tend to overvalue offensive box stats and seriously underrate two-way players who have legitimate offensive games. I get that Leonard and PG have been injured a lot, but give me an idea as far as how down you're sliding players because of that. They should be right there with Butler otherwise.

100%.

That’s why having someone like siakam below people like Derozan, lavine, Mitchell etc makes no sense.

Pascal is one of the most versatile defenders in the league and doesn’t seem to be factored in at all.

I

Honestly, I don't have Morant or Booker as top 10 guys either. Top 20 maybe.

[WarriorGM]

That’s your best argument for Curry having better competition? Is this a joke?

Aside from saying is this a joke do you have a point? No? I thought not.

I don't think you'll find a single soul on this board who thinks that's a reasonable way for assessing strength of competition. The Pelicans were mediocre despite having a good player, Gasol went on to win a title as the 5th best player on a different team.

In the Finals Curry went up against a rotation of Tristan Thomson, Jr Smith, Timofey Mozgov, Delly, Shumpert and James Jones. That's probably the worst Finals rotation of all time. Only way that's tough competition is if you think Lebron is so much better than Curry that the rest of the rotation doesn't matter

LeBron's teammates are constantly demeaned to prop him up. It's a tiresome story. Fact of the matter is that the majority of those guys at that time had higher salaries than their starting counterparts on the Warriors. The lineups the Warriors faced in the finals were basically the same Cavaliers lineups that swept the eastern conference finals and those guys you mention were still guys that were on the championship team the next year.

As it pertains to the topic of Curry's 2015 run vs. Antetokounmpo's, separating out LeBron from his teammates is also irrelevant. Curry and the Warriors faced those guys and LeBron. So if you want to say that a team with LeBron in his prime is weaker than a team led by Trae Young in his first playoffs appearance that the Bucks beat despite Giannis not playing in two games then just say that.

[rtiff68]

I'll say this, the pundit lists in general tend to overvalue offensive box stats and seriously underrate two-way players who have legitimate offensive games. I get that Leonard and PG have been injured a lot, but give me an idea as far as how down you're sliding players because of that. They should be right there with Butler otherwise.

100%.

That’s why having someone like siakam below people like Derozan, lavine, Mitchell etc makes no sense.

Pascal is one of the most versatile defenders in the league and doesn’t seem to be factored in at all.

I

Honestly, I don't have Morant or Booker as top 10 guys either. Top 20 maybe.

I agree with your take that lists like this tend to overvalue box score stats and undervalue “two-way players.”

I would also say that the value of being a “two-way player” is often exaggerated on boards like this and with talking heads, and is often used in an attempt to discredit a player(s) overall impact (the thing that actually matters the most).

[nikster]

Aside from saying is this a joke do you have a point? No? I thought not.

I don't think you'll find a single soul on this board who thinks that's a reasonable way for assessing strength of competition. The Pelicans were mediocre despite having a good player, Gasol went on to win a title as the 5th best player on a different team.

In the Finals Curry went up against a rotation of Tristan Thomson, Jr Smith, Timofey Mozgov, Delly, Shumpert and James Jones. That's probably the worst Finals rotation of all time. Only way that's tough competition is if you think Lebron is so much better than Curry that the rest of the rotation doesn't matter

LeBron's teammates are constantly demeaned to prop him up. It's a tiresome story. Fact of the matter is that the majority of those guys at that time had higher salaries than their starting counterparts on the Warriors. The lineups the Warriors faced in the finals were basically the same Cavaliers lineups that swept the eastern conference finals and those guys you mention were still guys that were on the championship team the next year.

As it pertains to the topic of Curry's 2015 run vs. Antetokounmpo's, separating out LeBron from his teammates is also irrelevant. Curry and the Warriors faced those guys and LeBron. So if you want to say that a team with LeBron in his prime is weaker than a team led by Trae Young in his first playoffs appearance that the Bucks beat despite Giannis not playing in two games then just say that.

Your the one diminishing Curries teammates. Klay, Dray, Iggy and Barnes >>>TT, Shump, JR, Delly. Salaries as a way of comparing supporting casts, Really?

Why would the comparison be the Cavs vs the Hawks and not Cavs vs the Suns?

Using salary as a way to compare supporting casts, you just keep bringing up meaningless points

[WarriorGM]

I don't think you'll find a single soul on this board who thinks that's a reasonable way for assessing strength of competition. The Pelicans were mediocre despite having a good player, Gasol went on to win a title as the 5th best player on a different team.

In the Finals Curry went up against a rotation of Tristan Thomson, Jr Smith, Timofey Mozgov, Delly, Shumpert and James Jones. That's probably the worst Finals rotation of all time. Only way that's tough competition is if you think Lebron is so much better than Curry that the rest of the rotation doesn't matter

LeBron's teammates are constantly demeaned to prop him up. It's a tiresome story. Fact of the matter is that the majority of those guys at that time had higher salaries than their starting counterparts on the Warriors. The lineups the Warriors faced in the finals were basically the same Cavaliers lineups that swept the eastern conference finals and those guys you mention were still guys that were on the championship team the next year.

As it pertains to the topic of Curry's 2015 run vs. Antetokounmpo's, separating out LeBron from his teammates is also irrelevant. Curry and the Warriors faced those guys and LeBron. So if you want to say that a team with LeBron in his prime is weaker than a team led by Trae Young in his first playoffs appearance that the Bucks beat despite Giannis not playing in two games then just say that.

Your the one diminishing Curries teammates. Klay, Dray, Iggy and Barnes >>>TT, Shump, JR, Delly. Salaries as a way of comparing supporting casts, Really?

Why would the comparison be the Cavs vs the Hawks and not Cavs vs the Suns?

Using salary as a way to compare supporting casts, you just keep bringing up meaningless points

Salaries are pretty objective as subjective calls get since people are putting money behind them. At the time people believed those guys were pretty good whatever the narrative revisionism of today may hold.

You were insinuating the Cavaliers were the "worst". But hey if you want to compare with the Suns that's fine too. The Cavaliers came back the next year and won a championship with basically the same cast. I think that tops what the Suns did in their following year.

[a-French-Fan]

Batum is still so underrated...

[nikster]

LeBron's teammates are constantly demeaned to prop him up. It's a tiresome story. Fact of the matter is that the majority of those guys at that time had higher salaries than their starting counterparts on the Warriors. The lineups the Warriors faced in the finals were basically the same Cavaliers lineups that swept the eastern conference finals and those guys you mention were still guys that were on the championship team the next year.

As it pertains to the topic of Curry's 2015 run vs. Antetokounmpo's, separating out LeBron from his teammates is also irrelevant. Curry and the Warriors faced those guys and LeBron. So if you want to say that a team with LeBron in his prime is weaker than a team led by Trae Young in his first playoffs appearance that the Bucks beat despite Giannis not playing in two games then just say that.

Your the one diminishing Curries teammates. Klay, Dray, Iggy and Barnes >>>TT, Shump, JR, Delly. Salaries as a way of comparing supporting casts, Really?

Why would the comparison be the Cavs vs the Hawks and not Cavs vs the Suns?

Using salary as a way to compare supporting casts, you just keep bringing up meaningless points

Salaries are pretty objective as subjective calls get since people are putting money behind them. At the time people believed those guys were pretty good whatever the narrative revisionism of today may hold.

You were insinuating the Cavaliers were the "worst". But hey if you want to compare with the Suns that's fine too. The Cavaliers came back the next year and won a championship with basically the same cast. I think that tops what the Suns did in their following year.

Since salaries are objective.. The Cavs top 6 players in minutes played outside of Lebron in those finals made $21 million. The Warriors top 6 outside of Curry made $36 million. The Warriors on this 2022 run outspent everysingle team they played by a big margin.

Something tells me you don't think salary is objective anymore

[WarriorGM]

Your the one diminishing Curries teammates. Klay, Dray, Iggy and Barnes >>>TT, Shump, JR, Delly. Salaries as a way of comparing supporting casts, Really?

Why would the comparison be the Cavs vs the Hawks and not Cavs vs the Suns?

Using salary as a way to compare supporting casts, you just keep bringing up meaningless points

Salaries are pretty objective as subjective calls get since people are putting money behind them. At the time people believed those guys were pretty good whatever the narrative revisionism of today may hold.

You were insinuating the Cavaliers were the "worst". But hey if you want to compare with the Suns that's fine too. The Cavaliers came back the next year and won a championship with basically the same cast. I think that tops what the Suns did in their following year.

Since salaries are objective.. The Cavs top 6 players in minutes played outside of Lebron in those finals made $21 million. The Warriors top 6 outside of Curry made $36 million. The Warriors on this 2022 run outspent everysingle team they played by a big margin.

Something tells me you don't think salary is objective anymore

I don't know what your point is. Furthermore you'd be comparing apples with oranges since there was a rather infamous new broadcasting deal that led to a salary spike in 2016.

[Rainwater]

Omg cbs list is SO much better despite some things id certainly disagree with. Someone start a thread of their list. Blows this one out the water.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

I really don't think cbs is much better. I don't know how you have Steph and Durant at their age over Embiid, Doncic, and the two time MVP Joker. It makes no sense.

'How good a player is now and what his quality may be prospectively are 2 different questions as I see it.

Curry will eventually retire and will likely decline before doing so. I don't see how that is relevant to his quality as a player just now given his most recent game was the game his team won to clinch a finals series with him as FMVP.

Curry is still a top 5 player in the league hence if put in a series against the Celtics where he is obviously the best player on the floor he has a chance to win FMVP. With that being said, I don't know how you put Curry, while still good is not the same player he was years ago, over for 4 guys who have been better then him arguably the last 4 years and are treading upward. Giannis has won 2 MVPs in 4 years. Joker has won 2 MVPs in 4 years. Embiid has been top 3 in MVP voting the last two years. Doncic is the only player you may say Curry can beat out; however, given his projection, his recent play, and the fact he even finished over Curry in MVP voting last would you really chose Curry over him? Curry is a great player but I really do believe since Curry won the title and the other 4 guys weren't playing people have forgotten how great the others guys have been.

[nikster]

Salaries are pretty objective as subjective calls get since people are putting money behind them. At the time people believed those guys were pretty good whatever the narrative revisionism of today may hold.

You were insinuating the Cavaliers were the "worst". But hey if you want to compare with the Suns that's fine too. The Cavaliers came back the next year and won a championship with basically the same cast. I think that tops what the Suns did in their following year.

Since salaries are objective.. The Cavs top 6 players in minutes played outside of Lebron in those finals made $21 million. The Warriors top 6 outside of Curry made $36 million. The Warriors on this 2022 run outspent everysingle team they played by a big margin.

Something tells me you don't think salary is objective anymore

I don't know what your point is. Furthermore you'd be comparing apples with oranges since there was a rather infamous new broadcasting deal that led to a salary spike in 2016.

If you think you can use salary as an objective measure of quality of a player, Curry had a way better supporting cast in the 2015 finals then Lebron did. Bucks and Sun's in 2021 were basically equal. Therefore Curry had an easier finals then Giannis

[WarriorGM]

I really don't think cbs is much better. I don't know how you have Steph and Durant at their age over Embiid, Doncic, and the two time MVP Joker. It makes no sense.

'How good a player is now and what his quality may be prospectively are 2 different questions as I see it.

Curry will eventually retire and will likely decline before doing so. I don't see how that is relevant to his quality as a player just now given his most recent game was the game his team won to clinch a finals series with him as FMVP.

Curry is still a top 5 player in the league hence if put in a series against the Celtics where he is obviously the best player on the floor he has a chance to win FMVP. With that being said, I don't know how you put Curry, while still good is not the same player he was years ago, over for 4 guys who have been better then him arguably the last 4 years and are treading upward. Giannis has won 2 MVPs in 4 years. Joker has won 2 MVPs in 4 years. Embiid has been top 3 in MVP voting the last two years. Doncic is the only player you may say Curry can beat out; however, given his projection, his recent play, and the fact he even finished over Curry in MVP voting last would you really chose Curry over him? Curry is a great player but I really do believe since Curry won the title and the other 4 guys weren't playing people have forgotten how great the others guys have been.

Giannis, Joker, Embiid, and Doncic got more MVP votes? Which one of them led his team to more wins than Curry this year? Oh right, none of them. Who won a championship this year? Curry. Some things matter more than others. MVP votes these days don't. Indeed the last time an MVP award seemed to signal something notable was when Curry went unanimous. He broke the award by doing so. The voters have ever since tried to avoid selecting him and have been producing choices that can start looking really inane years from now.

[Cubbies2120]

So the Rockets and Blazers weren’t very good.

As I recall he and his team made 6 finals series, not 1.

Yep, and he won FMVP in one of those 6 Finals. Not a great track record.

We saw what happened when FMVP KD went out (after the organization rushed him back) - the dreams of a threepeat went out the window.

As a Cubs fan, I’m not surprised that you have difficulty identifying what greatness and winning look like.

I mean, they literally just won less than 6 years ago...this isn't the burn you think it is

And I am recognizing greatness, the greatness of KD who came into a new team, and dominated. Two straight FMVPs, and the team fell apart once he got injured. True greatness right there.

Unless you mean true greatness of 73 wins and then allowing the biggest comeback in NBA history in the Finals? That was pretty great to watch too, not gonna lie

The funniest part was the 73rd win being overshadowed because it happened the same day that Kobe dropped 60 on his way out. Everyone was more interested in that.

[shakes0]

Aside from saying is this a joke do you have a point? No? I thought not.

I don't think you'll find a single soul on this board who thinks that's a reasonable way for assessing strength of competition. The Pelicans were mediocre despite having a good player, Gasol went on to win a title as the 5th best player on a different team.

In the Finals Curry went up against a rotation of Tristan Thomson, Jr Smith, Timofey Mozgov, Delly, Shumpert and James Jones. That's probably the worst Finals rotation of all time. Only way that's tough competition is if you think Lebron is so much better than Curry that the rest of the rotation doesn't matter

ASo if you want to say that a team with LeBron in his prime is weaker than a team led by Trae Young in his first playoffs appearance that the Bucks beat despite Giannis not playing in two games then just say that.

If you’re going to mention that you should at the very least also mention that Trae didn’t play in 2.5 of those games as well and when he came back he was a shell of himself.

[michaelm]

I really don't think cbs is much better. I don't know how you have Steph and Durant at their age over Embiid, Doncic, and the two time MVP Joker. It makes no sense.

'How good a player is now and what his quality may be prospectively are 2 different questions as I see it.

Curry will eventually retire and will likely decline before doing so. I don't see how that is relevant to his quality as a player just now given his most recent game was the game his team won to clinch a finals series with him as FMVP.

Curry is still a top 5 player in the league hence if put in a series against the Celtics where he is obviously the best player on the floor he has a chance to win FMVP. With that being said, I don't know how you put Curry, while still good is not the same player he was years ago, over for 4 guys who have been better then him arguably the last 4 years and are treading upward. Giannis has won 2 MVPs in 4 years. Joker has won 2 MVPs in 4 years. Embiid has been top 3 in MVP voting the last two years. Doncic is the only player you may say Curry can beat out; however, given his projection, his recent play, and the fact he even finished over Curry in MVP voting last would you really chose Curry over him? Curry is a great player but I really do believe since Curry won the title and the other 4 guys weren't playing people have forgotten how great the others guys have been.

He was quite recently a player who led a team to a title. 3 of the pkayers you mention haven’t done that and may never do so. Was Curry the best player in the world when he won the unanimous MVP award ? . He was in the regular season, but not in the finals that year.

I have no argument against Giannis as I have said.