Cavs made a huge mistake and traded the wrong big man

[SeattleJazzFan]

Long term the Jazz won this trade. Mitchell is undersized and a defensive liability, even if he is motivated to actually play defense. Just wait until the shine wears off for Mitchell and the hero-ball and no defense guy shows up. Bookmark this thread and this comment, because it will happen. Window for the Cavs is this year and next. After that, you probably get the Donovan that has his foot out the door already.

It's way too early to determine which teams won this trade long term. Right now Cleveland are the clear winners with how Mitchell's been playing. But anything can happen in the future and it can all change just like that.

nah, mitchell wasn't playing like that for the jazz. nor was lauri playing like this for the cavs. lauri jazz version > dm jazz version. this is a deal both teams won.

it will be interesting to see what becomes of ochai and the picks they got from cleveland. for now, it's a wash.

[Mr Loggins]

However, last time Ainge ripped Koby off too, so he already knew he could get what he wanted when the phone calls were going back and forth.

i dunno; you can argue things worked out better for cleveland than boston, which would imply Cavs won the trade.

And obviously the jazz:cleveland trade wont be known until all thr picks convey and the dust settles, but if Mitchell is who he’s been the last 40games (a top-10
nba playet who fits in), those dont come cheaply

Can you though?

Cavs had 1 playoff appearance since the trade (went to the Finals).

Celtics had 5 playoff appearances since the trade (went to the Finals once and ECF 2 other times).

okkaaayyyy great point and all, but what exactly did Kyrie contribute to any or all of what you just said?

Cavs traded a headcase who apparrently said he would have surgery and miss the season if not traded for Jae crowder, ante zizic, isaih thomas and the #8 pick in a loaded draft.


when all the dust settled, cleveland ended up with Jarrett Allen (Crowder ——> Hill ——-> Pick traded for Allen) and a piece used in the Donavan Mitchell trade.

Boston ended up with two injury plagued years of kyrie, the 2nd of which was one of Boston’s most miserable in while, largely due to Kyrie’s attitude.

and oh yeah, Celtics could have had SGA had they not made the trade.

so yes: very arguable cleveland won the trade upon restrospect

[Mr Loggins]

i dunno; you can argue things worked out better for cleveland than boston, which would imply Cavs won the trade.

And obviously the jazz:cleveland trade wont be known until all thr picks convey and the dust settles, but if Mitchell is who he’s been the last 40games (a top-10
nba playet who fits in), those dont come cheaply

Can you though?

Cavs had 1 playoff appearance since the trade (went to the Finals).

Celtics had 5 playoff appearances since the trade (went to the Finals once and ECF 2 other times).

I don't think either team really won that trade.
Celtics had just drafted Tatum and he along with Brown are the main reasons for their recent success. They lost Kyrie for nothing.
Cavs still got to the Finals, and lost, without Kyrie that next season but they had to rebuild organically to get back to where they are now. Actually the lottery pick they got from the Kyrie trade turned into Sexton, who they included in the Mitchell trade, so in a way they are still benefitting from the Kyrie deal.

plus Crowder evetually turned into the pick Traded for Jarrett Allen

[TheLand13]

Long term the Jazz won this trade. Mitchell is undersized and a defensive liability, even if he is motivated to actually play defense. Just wait until the shine wears off for Mitchell and the hero-ball and no defense guy shows up. Bookmark this thread and this comment, because it will happen. Window for the Cavs is this year and next. After that, you probably get the Donovan that has his foot out the door already.

It's way too early to determine which teams won this trade long term. Right now Cleveland are the clear winners with how Mitchell's been playing. But anything can happen in the future and it can all change just like that.

nah, mitchell wasn't playing like that for the jazz. nor was lauri playing like this for the cavs. lauri jazz version > dm jazz version. this is a deal both teams won.

it will be interesting to see what becomes of ochai and the picks they got from cleveland. for now, it's a wash.

Mitchell right now is still miles ahead of Lauri as a player and they’re benefiting more. They look like they will for sure be a consistent playoff team for years to come, which hurts the value of those first round picks.

Therefore, they’re the ones currently winning this trade.
Utah definitely benefited, don’t get me wrong. But Cleveland is benefiting a lot more.

[jazzfan1971]

It's way too early to determine which teams won this trade long term. Right now Cleveland are the clear winners with how Mitchell's been playing. But anything can happen in the future and it can all change just like that.

nah, mitchell wasn't playing like that for the jazz. nor was lauri playing like this for the cavs. lauri jazz version > dm jazz version. this is a deal both teams won.

it will be interesting to see what becomes of ochai and the picks they got from cleveland. for now, it's a wash.

Mitchell right now is still miles ahead of Lauri as a player and they’re benefiting more. They look like they will for sure be a consistent playoff team for years to come, which hurts the value of those first round picks.

Therefore, they’re the ones currently winning this trade.
Utah definitely benefited, don’t get me wrong. But Cleveland is benefiting a lot more.

miles ahead?

[TheLand13]

nah, mitchell wasn't playing like that for the jazz. nor was lauri playing like this for the cavs. lauri jazz version > dm jazz version. this is a deal both teams won.

it will be interesting to see what becomes of ochai and the picks they got from cleveland. for now, it's a wash.

Mitchell right now is still miles ahead of Lauri as a player and they’re benefiting more. They look like they will for sure be a consistent playoff team for years to come, which hurts the value of those first round picks.

Therefore, they’re the ones currently winning this trade.
Utah definitely benefited, don’t get me wrong. But Cleveland is benefiting a lot more.

miles ahead?

Mitchell is having an MVP caliber season and just had a 71/11 game last week…

Yes, miles ahead. That’s not a knock on Lauri. But right now it just isn’t close between the two. Long term? That’s a different story.

[FranchisePlayer]

nah, mitchell wasn't playing like that for the jazz. nor was lauri playing like this for the cavs. lauri jazz version > dm jazz version. this is a deal both teams won.

it will be interesting to see what becomes of ochai and the picks they got from cleveland. for now, it's a wash.

Mitchell right now is still miles ahead of Lauri as a player and they’re benefiting more. They look like they will for sure be a consistent playoff team for years to come, which hurts the value of those first round picks.

Therefore, they’re the ones currently winning this trade.
Utah definitely benefited, don’t get me wrong. But Cleveland is benefiting a lot more.

miles ahead?

Yeah, the hyberbole of the week. The teams met a couple of days ago and the Cavs lost! But I guess there's a portion of bias on both sides here so better just move on...

[jazzfan1971]

I'm not saying he isn't ahead. I think he is. But I see it something like a 6-10 rank player vs. a 25-30 rank player.

If that is Miles to you so be it. To me it is a sizable difference, but not like top 5 to 260 or something that I would consider Miles.

[TheLand13]

Mitchell right now is still miles ahead of Lauri as a player and they’re benefiting more. They look like they will for sure be a consistent playoff team for years to come, which hurts the value of those first round picks.

Therefore, they’re the ones currently winning this trade.
Utah definitely benefited, don’t get me wrong. But Cleveland is benefiting a lot more.

miles ahead?

Yeah, the hyberbole of the week. The teams met a couple of days ago and the Cavs lost! But I guess there's a portion of bias on both sides here so better just move on...

What does the Cavs losing have to do with anything? They were without Allen and their best perimeter defender in Okoro after the first quarter… and Mobley had to transition away from PF which allowed Lauri to go off after he was making life very difficult for him.

Again, Mitchell is having an MVP caliber season, is pretty much guaranteed to be a starter in the all star game and just had one of the most dominant games in NBA history. Lauri is, at best, an all star reserve on a middle of the road team.

There’s no bias here, nor is there any hyperbole. I’m as big a Lauri supporter as any, but he’s not on Mitchell’s level right now, nor is he anywhere close. With time? He might. But not right now.

[TheLand13]

I'm not saying he isn't ahead. I think he is. But I see it something like a 6-10 rank player vs. a 25-30 rank player.

If that is Miles to you so be it. To me it is a sizable difference, but not like top 5 to 260 or something that I would consider Miles.

That’s a pretty massive difference lol.

[FranchisePlayer]

miles ahead?

Yeah, the hyberbole of the week. The teams met a couple of days ago and the Cavs lost! But I guess there's a portion of bias on both sides here so better just move on...

What does the Cavs losing have to do with anything? They were without Allen and their best perimeter defender in Okoro after the first quarter… and Mobley had to transition away from PF which allowed Lauri to go off after he was making life very difficult for him.

Again, Mitchell is having an MVP caliber season, is pretty much guaranteed to be a starter in the all star game and just had one of the most dominant games in NBA history. Lauri is, at best, an all star reserve on a middle of the road team.

There’s no bias here, nor is there any hyperbole. I’m as big a Lauri supporter as any, but he’s not on Mitchell’s level right now, nor is he anywhere close. With time? He might. But not right now.

Everything. You guys should've won easily. A healthy squad to start with.

So you lost Allen, but the Jazz had a regular starter Olynyk out, and THT and Sexton. And when you compare both team's starters, the Cavs are clearly a more talented team. And on top of that your #1 option is "miles ahead" of our #1 option.

So, if Mitchell is that good he obviously should make the players around him play better, too? That's what Markkanen does.

As of late Jazz have lost to crappy teams with crappy performances. This was a shock win so Mitchell's scoring seemed like empty calories to me. Indications of being "miles ahead"? Zero. Nada. None whatsoever. But sure one can argue he is better.

[FranchisePlayer]

Long term the Jazz won this trade. Mitchell is undersized and a defensive liability, even if he is motivated to actually play defense. Just wait until the shine wears off for Mitchell and the hero-ball and no defense guy shows up. Bookmark this thread and this comment, because it will happen. Window for the Cavs is this year and next. After that, you probably get the Donovan that has his foot out the door already.

An interesting take... I will!

[yoyoboy]

Yeah, the hyberbole of the week. The teams met a couple of days ago and the Cavs lost! But I guess there's a portion of bias on both sides here so better just move on...

What does the Cavs losing have to do with anything? They were without Allen and their best perimeter defender in Okoro after the first quarter… and Mobley had to transition away from PF which allowed Lauri to go off after he was making life very difficult for him.

Again, Mitchell is having an MVP caliber season, is pretty much guaranteed to be a starter in the all star game and just had one of the most dominant games in NBA history. Lauri is, at best, an all star reserve on a middle of the road team.

There’s no bias here, nor is there any hyperbole. I’m as big a Lauri supporter as any, but he’s not on Mitchell’s level right now, nor is he anywhere close. With time? He might. But not right now.

Everything. You guys should've won easily. A healthy squad to start with.

So you lost Allen, but the Jazz had a regular starter Olynyk out, and THT and Sexton. And when you compare both team's starters, the Cavs are clearly a more talented team. And on top of that your #1 option is "miles ahead" of our #1 option.

So, if Mitchell is that good he obviously should make the players around him play better, too? That's what Markkanen does.

As of late Jazz have lost to crappy teams with crappy performances. This was a shock win so Mitchell's scoring seemed like empty calories to me. Indications of being "miles ahead"? Zero. Nada. None whatsoever. But sure one can argue he is better.

Jesus, what an overreaction. Any team can lose to any team in any given night. We’re still 10 games above .500 amongst constant injuries this season while Utah is lottery bound. We were missing our best defender in Allen, 3rd best defender in Wade, 4th best defender in Okoro, and I would argue 5th best in Rubio who returns tonight, though who knows if he’ll lose a step post-injury. We shot terribly from 3, and sometimes shooting luck doesn’t go your way. And it was a road game. Despite all that, if not for some ridiculous calls in the final minute we would’ve won the game. Making it some grand indictment on the Cavs and especially on Mitchell who played fricking awesome is hilarious.

[TheLand13]

Yeah, the hyberbole of the week. The teams met a couple of days ago and the Cavs lost! But I guess there's a portion of bias on both sides here so better just move on...

What does the Cavs losing have to do with anything? They were without Allen and their best perimeter defender in Okoro after the first quarter… and Mobley had to transition away from PF which allowed Lauri to go off after he was making life very difficult for him.

Again, Mitchell is having an MVP caliber season, is pretty much guaranteed to be a starter in the all star game and just had one of the most dominant games in NBA history. Lauri is, at best, an all star reserve on a middle of the road team.

There’s no bias here, nor is there any hyperbole. I’m as big a Lauri supporter as any, but he’s not on Mitchell’s level right now, nor is he anywhere close. With time? He might. But not right now.

Everything. You guys should've won easily. A healthy squad to start with.

So you lost Allen, but the Jazz had a regular starter Olynyk out, and THT and Sexton. And when you compare both team's starters, the Cavs are clearly a more talented team. And on top of that your #1 option is "miles ahead" of our #1 option.

So, if Mitchell is that good he obviously should make the players around him play better, too? That's what Markkanen does.

As of late Jazz have lost to crappy teams with crappy performances. This was a shock win so Mitchell's scoring seemed like empty calories to me. Indications of being "miles ahead"? Zero. Nada. None whatsoever. But sure one can argue he is better.

You are comparing Cleveland losing Allen and Okoro to Utah losing Olynyck, Sexton and THT.

That is a next level bad take.

He’s miles ahead of Lauri. If you’re going to use a game Mitchell played in where his team lost despite him scoring 46 as evidence of that, you’re giving me every reason to think you’re trolling. Why should I even bother continuing this with you after a post like that? If you disagree with me, fine, but at least make some attempt at making a compelling argument.

[MagicFan12345]

**** happens! Move on!

[MTJazzv3]

Long term the Jazz won this trade. Mitchell is undersized and a defensive liability, even if he is motivated to actually play defense. Just wait until the shine wears off for Mitchell and the hero-ball and no defense guy shows up. Bookmark this thread and this comment, because it will happen. Window for the Cavs is this year and next. After that, you probably get the Donovan that has his foot out the door already.

It's way too early to determine which teams won this trade long term. Right now Cleveland are the clear winners with how Mitchell's been playing. But anything can happen in the future and it can all change just like that.

I dunno. Marrks is providing the Jazz about 80-85% of Mitchell's offense as a primary scorer and is a tick better than Mitchell on D (due to length, not effort) and clearly on a team-friendly contract. Throw in Sexton, (still might be a good rotation guard) and the FRPs, and I think its clear the long view is a Jazz W on that trade. Mitchell is having a great year, so kudos to him, but Markks is the new prototype to build around, (length and mad skills).

[mcfly1204]

Long term the Jazz won this trade. Mitchell is undersized and a defensive liability, even if he is motivated to actually play defense. Just wait until the shine wears off for Mitchell and the hero-ball and no defense guy shows up. Bookmark this thread and this comment, because it will happen. Window for the Cavs is this year and next. After that, you probably get the Donovan that has his foot out the door already.

It's way too early to determine which teams won this trade long term. Right now Cleveland are the clear winners with how Mitchell's been playing. But anything can happen in the future and it can all change just like that.

I dunno. Marrks is providing the Jazz about 80-85% of Mitchell's offense as a primary scorer and is a tick better than Mitchell on D (due to length, not effort) and clearly on a team-friendly contract. Throw in Sexton, (still might be a good rotation guard) and the FRPs, and I think its clear the long view is a Jazz W on that trade. Mitchell is having a great year, so kudos to him, but Markks is the new prototype to build around, (length and mad skills).

"clear" and "long view" in the same sentence? Perhaps maybe "more favorable" would make sense here?

[TheLand13]

Long term the Jazz won this trade. Mitchell is undersized and a defensive liability, even if he is motivated to actually play defense. Just wait until the shine wears off for Mitchell and the hero-ball and no defense guy shows up. Bookmark this thread and this comment, because it will happen. Window for the Cavs is this year and next. After that, you probably get the Donovan that has his foot out the door already.

It's way too early to determine which teams won this trade long term. Right now Cleveland are the clear winners with how Mitchell's been playing. But anything can happen in the future and it can all change just like that.

I dunno. Marrks is providing the Jazz about 80-85% of Mitchell's offense as a primary scorer and is a tick better than Mitchell on D (due to length, not effort) and clearly on a team-friendly contract. Throw in Sexton, (still might be a good rotation guard) and the FRPs, and I think its clear the long view is a Jazz W on that trade. Mitchell is having a great year, so kudos to him, but Markks is the new prototype to build around, (length and mad skills).

Like I said, it’s way too early to say. If Cleveland comes out of this with a championship in the next few years, they’re the automatic winners unless Utah gets one too (that’s a big if on Cleveland’s part though).

Now, with that said, who do I think is most likely going to be the long term winner? I’d put my money on Utah. Mitchell can play as well as he wants but none of it matters until Cleveland solves their wing issue, and that might not even happen this upcoming off season.

[BarneyGumble]

It's way too early to determine which teams won this trade long term. Right now Cleveland are the clear winners with how Mitchell's been playing. But anything can happen in the future and it can all change just like that.

I dunno. Marrks is providing the Jazz about 80-85% of Mitchell's offense as a primary scorer and is a tick better than Mitchell on D (due to length, not effort) and clearly on a team-friendly contract. Throw in Sexton, (still might be a good rotation guard) and the FRPs, and I think its clear the long view is a Jazz W on that trade. Mitchell is having a great year, so kudos to him, but Markks is the new prototype to build around, (length and mad skills).

Like I said, it’s way too early to say. If Cleveland comes out of this with a championship in the next few years, they’re the automatic winners unless Utah gets one too (that’s a big if on Cleveland’s part though).

Now, with that said, who do I think is most likely going to be the long term winner? I’d put my money on Utah. Mitchell can play as well as he wants but none of it matters until Cleveland solves their wing issue, and that might not even happen this upcoming off season.

I was pretty clear in my comment that I was talking long term. Yes, short term (the window I spoke of which is this year and next year) the Cavs clearly "won" the trade and that is why they made it. They are contenders right now. But I can almost guarantee that Mitchell will have his foot out the door in 2 seasons from now. So you better win the title soon. Otherwise he is gone. Sorry, he's not staying in Cleveland no matter what he says, and the no defense chucker version of him will show up when he's ready to leave.

Assuming Lauri is still on the Jazz when this happens, at that point the Jazz will become the winners of this trade unless Cavs have won the title.

[FranchisePlayer]

Enough of derailing the thread, back to the original proposition:

https://basketball.realgm.com/player/Lauri-Markkanen/Comparison/53967/Dirk-Nowitzki/308?force_min_yos=6&force_max_yos=6