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cgf wrote:

Slimjimzv wrote:If Kristaps could have stayed on the court, he'd be (literally) head and shoulders above the list. Glad he's made a career out of it, but it's so disappointing that he didn't own NY.

Kristaps would've been a great complement to Brundle and OG, but even if he had stuck in NY he wouldn't be the game changer that Jalen is...and I'd argue Randle/Anunoby as well.

Porzingis is pretty easily better than Randle imo. Brunson is better than him tho.

On a related note, IHart 12 ft teardrop is a weapon of mass disruption

RRR3 wrote:

cgf wrote:

Slimjimzv wrote:If Kristaps could have stayed on the court, he'd be (literally) head and shoulders above the list. Glad he's made a career out of it, but it's so disappointing that he didn't own NY.

Kristaps would've been a great complement to Brundle and OG, but even if he had stuck in NY he wouldn't be the game changer that Jalen is...and I'd argue Randle/Anunoby as well.

Porzingis is pretty easily better than Randle imo. Brunson is better than him tho.

That's arguable.

Based on the results, Randle for all of his criticisms, has led his team to the playoffs and is a multiple All-NBA team member. KP on the other hand...

Porzingis is simply playing in the perfect situation in BOS where he doesn't have to be the first or second option. He can just fit in and play his role.

Agreed even if that isn’t saying much but the boy is a stud.

omerome wrote:

RRR3 wrote:

cgf wrote:
Kristaps would've been a great complement to Brundle and OG, but even if he had stuck in NY he wouldn't be the game changer that Jalen is...and I'd argue Randle/Anunoby as well.

Porzingis is pretty easily better than Randle imo. Brunson is better than him tho.

That's arguable.

Based on the results, Randle for all of his criticisms, has led his team to the playoffs and is a multiple All-NBA team member. KP on the other hand...

Porzingis is simply playing in the perfect situation in BOS where he doesn't have to be the first or second option. He can just fit in and play his role.

and porzingis himself said that he prefers to be a 3rd-4th option too

Some weird takes in this thread...

Melo screwed the Knicks by forcing the trade, screwed them again when he refused to accept Lin, and then screwed them again by just being an overall unpleasant person for a few years...

But absolutely none of that matters at the end of the day, because the issue with those Knicks teams had more to do with Amare getting paid max money to watch from the sidelines till 2015...

IDK why so many fans expect teams and players to overperform and outmatch teams when they are working with only 2/3 the resources that other competing teams are. Yall got on your knees for LeBron and Steph when they couldn't bring home the bacon when their key players went down, but for some reason Melo was?

Melo brought excitement backto NY basketball, and for those of you who don't spend a ton of time in the city, you have no idea what the really means. NY is like Bos, it's a sports town, you can just walk down the street and find yourself talking ball with a stranger for hours. During that time, Melo created the same level of Buzz we are seeing Brunson create now.

I certainly think Jalen will become a more distinguished NYK, probably as early as this year, but you have to remember something. He isn't battle and being compared to LeBron James and the MIA Heat Big 3. That was always Melo's barameter of success, and it's completely different. Melo didn't handle it well once Amare got cooked, but he still mattered to that city, and is the reason people in the city still care about basketball.

Give it a few more years, and this won't be a question, it'll be Brunson, but he hasn't gotten their yet.

RRR3 wrote:

cgf wrote:

Slimjimzv wrote:If Kristaps could have stayed on the court, he'd be (literally) head and shoulders above the list. Glad he's made a career out of it, but it's so disappointing that he didn't own NY.

Kristaps would've been a great complement to Brundle and OG, but even if he had stuck in NY he wouldn't be the game changer that Jalen is...and I'd argue Randle/Anunoby as well.

Porzingis is pretty easily better than Randle imo. Brunson is better than him tho.

I think that's an understandable opinion, but really depends on needs.

IMO if we could add a healthy KP or a healthy JR for this play off run, Juju would help us more...Jalen's our only creator, Julius has his shortcomings with his touch & decision making as a help defender, but the man demands regular double teams with of his rim-pressure and he has very good vision to make life easier for Jalen & the rest of the team.

OTOH, for a team Boston like Boston last summer...who already had Brown & Tatum...KP makes a bigger impact with his spacing and rim protection. Julius's rebounding advantage would've been a big help for them, but his creation advantage over KP would mean a lot less, and his rebounding alone doesn't outweigh KP's advantages...for them.

So for us, I don't think KP would make as big of a difference as Randle or Anunoby...though I would love to still have him as well as OG & Brundle...kinda like Bridges v Randle; if you a need a 3rd/4th option Bridges makes more sense, if you need a #2/1b then it's Randle that's the better fit, and we need a #2/1b more than another 3rd/4th option right now.

Just throwing this out there:

Derrick Rose won an MVP under Thibodeau. After he went down, a series of scrub PG's had career years playing PG for the Bulls. John Lucas III, Augustin, Nate Robinson, etc.

Thibs is really good with PG's. I don't think he is getting enough credit for NY's success. That roster isn't worthy of a 2 seed purely based on talent.

coldfish wrote:Just throwing this out there:

Derrick Rose won an MVP under Thibodeau. After he went down, a series of scrub PG's had career years playing PG for the Bulls. John Lucas III, Augustin, Nate Robinson, etc.

Thibs is really good with PG's. I don't think he is getting enough credit for NY's success. That roster isn't worthy of a 2 seed purely based on talent.

I agree with the first part, however, if the Knicks had this cast with Randle for an entire season, I believe this team wins 55-60 games. They would have had Hart, Precious, McBride, Bogdanovic and Hartenstein off the bench. Next year, the Knicks will be a threat for the #1 seed, pending them re-signing their free agents.

coldfish wrote:Just throwing this out there:

Derrick Rose won an MVP under Thibodeau. After he went down, a series of scrub PG's had career years playing PG for the Bulls. John Lucas III, Augustin, Nate Robinson, etc.

Thibs is really good with PG's. I don't think he is getting enough credit for NY's success. That roster isn't worthy of a 2 seed purely based on talent.

do you feel the same way about those thibs bulls teams? because i feel like this current knick team is almost a mirror image of them in every way.

DaGawd wrote:

coldfish wrote:Just throwing this out there:

Derrick Rose won an MVP under Thibodeau. After he went down, a series of scrub PG's had career years playing PG for the Bulls. John Lucas III, Augustin, Nate Robinson, etc.

Thibs is really good with PG's. I don't think he is getting enough credit for NY's success. That roster isn't worthy of a 2 seed purely based on talent.

do you feel the same way about those thibs bulls teams? because i feel like this current knick team is almost a mirror image of them in every way.

Yes. The Thibs Bulls teams were not as talented as their record. After Derrick went down, they were still winning close to 50 with a roster that screamed "30 wins". Then when they flamed out in the playoffs, Thibs got grief for losing a series the team had no business playing in.

iLLmatic860 wrote:

Hello Brooklyn wrote:

iLLmatic860 wrote:The same 8 seed Giannis and Tatum lost too? lol

Giannis got hurt that series. And yes Tatum collapsing in that series was terrible. Far worse than the Knicks.

The Nuggets easily destroyed them. They had no business making the Finals.

What’s the point in even replying back days later. Lol after Knicks just beat Nets. Are you really still trying to downplay Brunson?

You are obsessed with the Nets.

It has nothing to do with this conversation.

DaGawd wrote:

Hello Brooklyn wrote:

Stannis wrote:
That's not really anything to be ashamed about considering the Heat made the finals that year.

And the Knicks only had like 3 more wins than the Heat in the regular season that year.

Nobody said you should be ashamed of it. Im questioning what he has done to make him any more accomplished than Melo.

i love melo.. brunson is better

There is no planet in which Brunson is a better player than Melo.

Only Knicks fans seem to think this. More emotional than rational.

Hello Brooklyn wrote:

DaGawd wrote:

Hello Brooklyn wrote:
Nobody said you should be ashamed of it. Im questioning what he has done to make him any more accomplished than Melo.

i love melo.. brunson is better

There is no planet in which Brunson is a better player than Melo.

Only Knicks fans seem to think this. More emotional than rational.

you literally have other fans who aren’t knick fans saying the same thing in here..

Hello Brooklyn wrote:

iLLmatic860 wrote:

Hello Brooklyn wrote:
Giannis got hurt that series. And yes Tatum collapsing in that series was terrible. Far worse than the Knicks.

The Nuggets easily destroyed them. They had no business making the Finals.

What’s the point in even replying back days later. Lol after Knicks just beat Nets. Are you really still trying to downplay Brunson?

You are obsessed with the Nets.

It has nothing to do with this conversation.

Why did you wait days later to respond after Knicks beat yall?

I really don’t even follow the Nets. I completely forgot the old Uconn coach Ollie was the new coach until yesterday

coldfish wrote:Just throwing this out there:

Derrick Rose won an MVP under Thibodeau. After he went down, a series of scrub PG's had career years playing PG for the Bulls. John Lucas III, Augustin, Nate Robinson, etc.

Thibs is really good with PG's. I don't think he is getting enough credit for NY's success. That roster isn't worthy of a 2 seed purely based on talent.

He's really good with scoring/driving guards like D'Antoni is with shooting/distributing guards.

Also, he's pretty good with centers who can distribute. And two way wings. Thibs is good.

iLLmatic860 wrote:

Hello Brooklyn wrote:

iLLmatic860 wrote:What’s the point in even replying back days later. Lol after Knicks just beat Nets. Are you really still trying to downplay Brunson?

You are obsessed with the Nets.

It has nothing to do with this conversation.

Why did you wait days later to respond after Knicks beat yall?

I really don’t even follow the Nets. I completely forgot the old Uconn coach Ollie was the new coach until yesterday

I waited days later because I don't visit RealGM everyday lol. Its not that deep.

Hello Brooklyn wrote:

ShootersShoot wrote:

cgf wrote:
FWIW Melo also never had someone like Julius taking defensive attention away from him as a Knick. Without Randle on the court with him, Brunson's #s dipped a lot and were actually worse than Melo's.

Brunson without Randle since 1/29:
30.6ppg, 57% TS

Melo's best season as a knick (efficiency wise)
28.7ppg, 56% TS

Not to mention the winning record during that time (17-12)..
Plus Brunson's 7.1 apg to 2.6 turnovers, which is absolutely solid considering the scoring volume as well.

Lol so you get to use a 29 game sample?

Melo was clearly a better player at the time. Especially with scoring way up this year.

Maybe because the sample size of brunson without randle is not a large one? If the premise is that brunson was worse without randle than melo was as a knick..how else would you make the comparison? With whatever the available sample size is right? Some people man..

ShootersShoot wrote:

Hello Brooklyn wrote:

ShootersShoot wrote:
Brunson without Randle since 1/29:
30.6ppg, 57% TS

Melo's best season as a knick (efficiency wise)
28.7ppg, 56% TS

Not to mention the winning record during that time (17-12)..
Plus Brunson's 7.1 apg to 2.6 turnovers, which is absolutely solid considering the scoring volume as well.

Lol so you get to use a 29 game sample?

Melo was clearly a better player at the time. Especially with scoring way up this year.

Maybe because the sample size of brunson without randle is not a large one? If the premise is that brunson was worse without randle than melo was as a knick..how else would you make the comparison? With whatever the available sample size is right? Some people man..

Or maybe its stupid to draw conclusions from a small sample size. Its not that hard to comprehend. Lol

Hello Brooklyn wrote:

ShootersShoot wrote:

Hello Brooklyn wrote:
Lol so you get to use a 29 game sample?

Melo was clearly a better player at the time. Especially with scoring way up this year.

Maybe because the sample size of brunson without randle is not a large one? If the premise is that brunson was worse without randle than melo was as a knick..how else would you make the comparison? With whatever the available sample size is right? Some people man..

Or maybe its stupid to draw conclusions from a small sample size. Its not that hard to comprehend. Lol

I was responding to someone who said brunson without randle played worse than melo..not hard to comprehend..maybe it is for you.
I gave evidence to show it wasnt true. The point is that what he said was untrue, not that brunson is a better player than melo..you just lack the intelligence to understand that..sheesh

Based on the data available, can we conclude brunson without randle played worse than the knicks version of melo? Obviously no we cant..its that simple mate. Even the person i was discussing this with said fair enough...

Then he clarified he meant playoffs which is a much much smaller sample size. Why dont you give him crap about that?

And honestly, is 30 straight games not enough to make an educated guess about something? Like can we really not reasonably conclude that brunson is still an effective player without randle at this point? Is that a "stupid" conclusion?

Now with that said, melos tenure with the knicks spans multiple seasons, and if we are to compare him as a player vs another knick and want to answer the question of who was better overall, then yes, a higher sample size of multiple seasons is needed. I agree a 30 game sample would not be sufficient to determine which of the two was a better player for the franchise. But you have to understand that is not what me and the other guy was talking about.