OT: Djoker Becomes Undisputed GOAT

[Rust_Cohle]

Style wise

Federer: Led Zeppelin
Djokovic: Deep Purple
Nadal: Black Sabbath.


if anyone thinks one of the bands is "unquestionably" better than the other two is a moron.

Ridiculous analogy

Federer: Micheal Jackson
Nadal: Bruno Mars
Djokovic: Eminem

Federer was into children?

His aura has faded quite a bit after being left behind by Djokovic and nadal. Thank god he and the dark ages of 2003-2005 to get a head start

[LaLover11]

Ridiculous analogy

Federer: Micheal Jackson
Nadal: Bruno Mars
Djokovic: Eminem

Federer was into children?

His aura has faded quite a bit after being left behind by Djokovic and nadal. Thank god he and the dark ages of 2003-2005 to get a head start

Federer most loved
Nadal is the most new school and old school /athletic
Djokovic is a modern player that is controversial

Federer: MJ
Nadal: LeBron
Djokovic: Jokic

[EmpireFalls]

He is the arguable GOAT but can easily make the argument that peak Federer was not just better but significantly better.

Alcaraz is well also on track to pass him as well.

Federer and Alcaraz are comparable to peak Mahomes in their sport and Novak more comparable to Manning or Brady.

Hm. I think you’re overrating Alcaraz but I like this take.

[Gregoire]

Wasn't Federer clearly better than Nadal outside of clay? That seems like a pretty easy case to have Fed over Nadal.

He was better on grass. Nadal got the better of him on the hard court surfaces though and ended with a pretty significant advantage head to head overall.

Federer won most of their matches on hard court, largely thanks to dominating their matches on indoor hard courts.

Nadal beat him on outdoor hard and clay and beat him in most important matches (finals, sf, grand slams, 5 set matches).

[bledredwine]

I just can’t wrap my head around a player being GOAT unless he’s truly distanced himself from the competition.

All of Dojokiv, Nadal and Federer played at similar peak levels and now Alcaraz is at a similar level. Whomever is crowned GOAT will certainly be surpassed.
Now, I’m sure that it’s possible for sports to have coexisting GOAT level players, but it should be rare, not like Messi/Ronaldo, Djokovic/Federer/Nadal and so on.

The problem is that everyone’s started prioritizing longevity and material as their argument whereas it used to be what you saw and just how dominant that player was.
Realistically, it has to be both of those.
I swear I feel like a broken record because I was saying the same exact **** about Federer and everyone was denying it then. Now look.

If Djokovic had to play with peak Federer and Nadal, are you so sure that he could be as successful? And since I don’t know tennis very well, where does Sampras rank and why?

[Sgt Major]

If Djokovic had to play with peak Federer and Nadal, are you so sure that he could be as successful? And since I don’t know tennis very well, where does Sampras rank and why?

Djokovic is just one year younger than Nadal.

Every single stat and metric shows that Djokovic is the GOAT, any discussion about that is pointless.

[bledredwine]

If Djokovic had to play with peak Federer and Nadal, are you so sure that he could be as successful? And since I don’t know tennis very well, where does Sampras rank and why?

Djokovic is just one year younger than Nadal.

Every single stat and metric shows that Djokovic is the GOAT, any discussion about that is pointless.

Elaborate? “any discussion about that is pointless” usually implies bias and is hard to take seriously, by the way.

[Salieri]

If Djokovic had to play with peak Federer and Nadal, are you so sure that he could be as successful? And since I don’t know tennis very well, where does Sampras rank and why?

Djokovic is just one year younger than Nadal.

Every single stat and metric shows that Djokovic is the GOAT, any discussion about that is pointless.

Then how about you leave the thread and allow others who don't share your opinion to discuss it? Or are you one of those people who can't stand when others disagree with your take? If the discussion is pointless for you, your presence in this thread is also pointless.

For the record, I have no qualms in admitting that Djokovic's resume is better than his rivals'. I understand why more people agree that he's the GOAT. He has a better claim at that title than anybody else.

Yet, my favorite stylistically is Federer. And I think Nadal has the most merit among the 3 because he's the least talented in that trio (still huge talent, just not as much as Federer and Djokovic).

The three of them are close enough in performance for me to believe there cannot be a consensus GOAT. Djokovic gets the most votes, and fairly so. But differing opinions are not "pointless" the way I see it. And if I saw it that way, I wouldn't spend my time trying to kill the debate and disrespect other opinions.

[Rust_Cohle]

Federer: Micheal Jackson
Nadal: Bruno Mars
Djokovic: Eminem

Federer was into children?

His aura has faded quite a bit after being left behind by Djokovic and nadal. Thank god he and the dark ages of 2003-2005 to get a head start

Federer most loved
Nadal is the most new school and old school /athletic
Djokovic is a modern player that is controversial

Federer: MJ
Nadal: LeBron
Djokovic: Jokic

In no way shape or form is Fed MJ, not even close. He is more like Curry, an all time great but absolutely not #1.

[Rust_Cohle]

If Djokovic had to play with peak Federer and Nadal, are you so sure that he could be as successful? And since I don’t know tennis very well, where does Sampras rank and why?

Djokovic is just one year younger than Nadal.

Every single stat and metric shows that Djokovic is the GOAT, any discussion about that is pointless.

Then how about you leave the thread and allow others who don't share your opinion to discuss it? Or are you one of those people who can't stand when others disagree with your take? If the discussion is pointless for you, your presence in this thread is also pointless.

For the record, I have no qualms in admitting that Djokovic's resume is better than his rivals'. I understand why more people agree that he's the GOAT. He has a better claim at that title than anybody else.

Yet, my favorite stylistically is Federer. And I think Nadal has the most merit among the 3 because he's the least talented in that trio (still huge talent, just not as much as Federer and Djokovic).

The three of them are close enough in performance for me to believe there cannot be a consensus GOAT. Djokovic gets the most votes, and fairly so. But differing opinions are not "pointless" the way I see it. And if I saw it that way, I wouldn't spend my time trying to kill the debate and disrespect other opinions.

Then you haven't been watching tennis. And Nadal having the most "merit" is ridiculous. Nearly 2/3 of his slams are just from one surface. He's still #2 all time. Watching all 3 of their careers over the last 20 years the other poster is right. There is no argument against Djokovic at the goat. Using any subjective metric like style is pointless. Even Nadal has admitted Novak is the GOAT. Novak is at Gretzky levels now for the GOAT talk. There is more of a discussion to be had about #2 and #3 but Federer is #3 at this point.

[Salieri]

Whatever.

To quote DOT: this thread has a big "the beatdowns will continue until the morale improves" energy. I knew I shouldn't have said a word.

[QPR]

He was better on grass. Nadal got the better of him on the hard court surfaces though and ended with a pretty significant advantage head to head overall.

Federer won most of their matches on hard court, largely thanks to dominating their matches on indoor hard courts.

Nadal beat him on outdoor hard and clay and beat him in most important matches (finals, sf, grand slams, 5 set matches).

I was including rebound ace as a hard court too

[Rapcity_11]

Wasn't Federer clearly better than Nadal outside of clay? That seems like a pretty easy case to have Fed over Nadal.

He was better on grass. Nadal got the better of him on the hard court surfaces though and ended with a pretty significant advantage head to head overall.

I was talking overall, not head to head. But even H2H it was 11-9 for Federer on hard court.

[iamoti]

Djokovic vs Federer/Nadal is like Lebron vs Jordan , he got the accolades but doesn't pass the eye test. Boring game and a very unlikeable personality.

[Hoop Hunter]

I haven't watched tennis since Agassi and Sampras, loved watching those two go at it. I loved Connors vs McEnroe also. I'm old.

[QPR]

Wasn't Federer clearly better than Nadal outside of clay? That seems like a pretty easy case to have Fed over Nadal.

He was better on grass. Nadal got the better of him on the hard court surfaces though and ended with a pretty significant advantage head to head overall.

I was talking overall, not head to head. But even H2H it was 11-9 for Federer on hard court.

Fair enough. Rafa's still won the 4th most matches of all time on hard courts though. I think its splitting hairs to try and make it a surface debate between the big three tbh, as they've all won plenty on all surfaces.

I'd almost argue Rafa is the best all-surface player ever, given how few players historically have dominated clay and are also big threats elsewhere.

[LaLover11]

Federer was into children?

His aura has faded quite a bit after being left behind by Djokovic and nadal. Thank god he and the dark ages of 2003-2005 to get a head start

Federer most loved
Nadal is the most new school and old school /athletic
Djokovic is a modern player that is controversial

Federer: MJ
Nadal: LeBron
Djokovic: Jokic

In no way shape or form is Fed MJ, not even close. He is more like Curry, an all time great but absolutely not #1.

Never said MJ is #1, MJ meaning most loved
Nadal is my favorite between the 3

[Rust_Cohle]

He was better on grass. Nadal got the better of him on the hard court surfaces though and ended with a pretty significant advantage head to head overall.

I was talking overall, not head to head. But even H2H it was 11-9 for Federer on hard court.

Fair enough. Rafa's still won the 4th most matches of all time on hard courts though. I think its splitting hairs to try and make it a surface debate between the big three tbh, as they've all won plenty on all surfaces.

I'd almost argue Rafa is the best all-surface player ever, given how few players historically have dominated clay and are also big threats elsewhere.

Absolutely no way in hell is Rafa best all surface, he’s best one surface player and least versatile of the big 3 even though I have him #2 all time Novak has the best mix of slams especially in comparison to Rafa

[azcatz11]

I was surprised Joker got booed yesterday after retiring. If Rafa or Fed retired like he did they would have gotten a standing ovation and be praised for their toughness trying to compete.

Never seen an arguable goat like him who just does not have the fan support….

[Doctor MJ]

I was surprised Joker got booed yesterday after retiring. If Rafa or Fed retired like he did they would have gotten a standing ovation and be praised for their toughness trying to compete.

Never seen an arguable goat like him who just does not have the fan support….

So, you're not wrong about Djokovic's general lack of popularity but in this sense a tennis match is less like a basketball game and more like a concert:

When one guy quits, everything ends, and if you paid a lot of money for the experience, you feel screwed.

When a rock band does this in a major concert that fans paid a lot of money for, every single venue knows that the fans might riot and cause massive amounts of damage.

In tennis the fans are too civilized for that, but they still feel like they got robbed.

Of course it's different if fans see a major injury happen and the performer in question needs to got to the hospital, but when the fans don't see what happened. They just knew one moment everything seemed fine and the next the performer quits, the only reason fans wouldn't be pissed is if it was a match they didn't care about.

None of this means the fans are right in their behavior, but this isn't an unprecedented situation.

As I say all of this: Dude's won 10 Australian Opens, so you'd think the Aussies would embrace him as their GOAT specifically. The fact they don't seem to is really quite extreme.