The Kobe Step Through

[Mahoney_jr]

No... the discussion on the last 100 postings is about:

1. Pivoting
2. Making a step towards the basket out of the pivot while leaving the ground with the pivot foot to gain more ground and better balance
3. Jumping from the non-pivot foot

I have no idea if that's legal. The pdf posted with the rules says, it becomes a travelling when the pivot foot touches the ground again. But I'm not sold 100% somehow, because the basic concept of the pivot step is, that you are travelling when you leave your pivot foot while still holding the ball.

[ponder276]

No... the discussion on the last 100 postings is about:

1. Pivoting
2. Making a step towards the basket out of the pivot while leaving the ground with the pivot foot to gain more ground and better balance
3. Jumping from the non-pivot foot

I have no idea if that's legal. The pdf posted with the rules says, it becomes a travelling when the pivot foot touches the ground again. But I'm not sold 100% somehow, because the basic concept of the pivot step is, that you are travelling when you leave your pivot foot while still holding the ball.

That's traveling, nothing to discuss there. But Kobe rarely does that in his up-and-unders/step-throughs, he almost always takes off on both feet, which is not traveling. If your pivot foot leaves the ground just slightly before your non-pivot foot, no ref is gonna call it on any player, but if you're obviously lifting your pivot foot, then jumping off your non-pivot foot, then yeah, that's traveling. I don't care what some pdf says, if you've ever played basketball you know that it's a travel. There's a reason nobody ever pulls that move in games.

[Mahoney_jr]

I would agree wholeheartly but some guys were posting a official NBA rules pdf file and insisted that it's not needed to jump from both feet.

[marcroboy]

No... the discussion on the last 100 postings is about:

1. Pivoting
2. Making a step towards the basket out of the pivot while leaving the ground with the pivot foot to gain more ground and better balance
3. Jumping from the non-pivot foot

I have no idea if that's legal. The pdf posted with the rules says, it becomes a travelling when the pivot foot touches the ground again. But I'm not sold 100% somehow, because the basic concept of the pivot step is, that you are travelling when you leave your pivot foot while still holding the ball.

That's traveling, nothing to discuss there. But Kobe rarely does that in his up-and-unders/step-throughs, he almost always takes off on both feet, which is not traveling. If your pivot foot leaves the ground just slightly before your non-pivot foot, no ref is gonna call it on any player, but if you're obviously lifting your pivot foot, then jumping off your non-pivot foot, then yeah, that's traveling. I don't care what some pdf says, if you've ever played basketball you know that it's a travel. There's a reason nobody ever pulls that move in games.

The NBA refs don't care what you say either, they go by the rule from that "pdf". There's nothing you can do about it either

[ponder276]

No... the discussion on the last 100 postings is about:

1. Pivoting
2. Making a step towards the basket out of the pivot while leaving the ground with the pivot foot to gain more ground and better balance
3. Jumping from the non-pivot foot

I have no idea if that's legal. The pdf posted with the rules says, it becomes a travelling when the pivot foot touches the ground again. But I'm not sold 100% somehow, because the basic concept of the pivot step is, that you are travelling when you leave your pivot foot while still holding the ball.

That's traveling, nothing to discuss there. But Kobe rarely does that in his up-and-unders/step-throughs, he almost always takes off on both feet, which is not traveling. If your pivot foot leaves the ground just slightly before your non-pivot foot, no ref is gonna call it on any player, but if you're obviously lifting your pivot foot, then jumping off your non-pivot foot, then yeah, that's traveling. I don't care what some pdf says, if you've ever played basketball you know that it's a travel. There's a reason nobody ever pulls that move in games.

The NBA refs don't care what you say either, they go by the rule from that "pdf". There's nothing you can do about it either

Do you even watch or play basketball? That's not allowed, it's traveling, end of story. I'm guessing this is the section you guys are looking at:

g. If a player, with the ball in his possession, raises his pivot foot off the floor, he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor. If he drops the ball while in the air, he may not be the first to touch the ball.

They must be referring to a jump, where the non-pivot foot is already off the floor, and not a step taken after a pivot foot has already been established, which is a travel.

[marcroboy]

They must be referring to a jump, where the non-pivot foot is already off the floor, and not a step taken after a pivot foot has already been established, which is a travel.

Section VIII—Pivot
a. A pivot takes place when a player, who is holding the ball, steps once or more than
once in any direction with the same foot, with the other foot (pivot foot) in contact with
floor.
b. If the player wishes to dribble after a pivot, the ball must be out of his hand before
the pivot foot is raised off the floor. If the player raises his pivot off the floor, he must pass
or attempt a field goal before the foot is returned to the floor.
If he fails to follow these guidelines, he has committed a traveling violation.

"end of the story"?

[sixerswillrule]

Haha, I told you I wasn't the only one. I'm sure there are dozens, hundreds of other people on this board that are under the impression that you can't lift your pivot foot while the foot is on the ground. THERE IS A REASON FOR THIS. Just this afternoon I tried the move that I pointed out, and everyone on the court screamed travel. Even my teammates agreed with them. THERE IS A REASON FOR THIS. Do you see this move used in the NBA(more obviously then what Kobe did)? NO, you don't. THERE IS A REASON FOR THIS!!!. Stop being so freaking close-minded and pay attention to what actually goes on...

If your pivot foot leaves the ground just slightly before your non-pivot foot, no ref is gonna call it on any player, but if you're obviously lifting your pivot foot, then jumping off your non-pivot foot, then yeah, that's traveling. I don't care what some pdf says, if you've ever played basketball you know that it's a travel. There's a reason nobody ever pulls that move in games.

What he said...

[prophet_of_rage]

No... the discussion on the last 100 postings is about:

1. Pivoting
2. Making a step towards the basket out of the pivot while leaving the ground with the pivot foot to gain more ground and better balance
3. Jumping from the non-pivot foot

I have no idea if that's legal. The pdf posted with the rules says, it becomes a travelling when the pivot foot touches the ground again. But I'm not sold 100% somehow, because the basic concept of the pivot step is, that you are travelling when you leave your pivot foot while still holding the ball.

That's traveling, nothing to discuss there. But Kobe rarely does that in his up-and-unders/step-throughs, he almost always takes off on both feet, which is not traveling. If your pivot foot leaves the ground just slightly before your non-pivot foot, no ref is gonna call it on any player, but if you're obviously lifting your pivot foot, then jumping off your non-pivot foot, then yeah, that's traveling. I don't care what some pdf says, if you've ever played basketball you know that it's a travel. There's a reason nobody ever pulls that move in games.

Becuase they don't understand the rules of basketball. The stepthrough move isn't well-understood in American basketball, but it is legal. If you couldn't lift your pivot foot without shooting or passing then the jumpshot would be illegal. If it was you had to jump off both feet at the same time the 1-2 layup steps would be illegal. If it was two feet leaving the ground is not a travel then you could land with the ball. It's the pivot foot can be raised and can't be lowered until there is a shot or pass.

People just watch an up and under post move.

[prophet_of_rage]

Haha, I told you I wasn't the only one. I'm sure there are dozens, hundreds of other people on this board that are under the impression that you can't lift your pivot foot while the foot is on the ground. THERE IS A REASON FOR THIS. Just this afternoon I tried the move that I pointed out, and everyone on the court screamed travel. Even my teammates agreed with them. THERE IS A REASON FOR THIS. Do you see this move used in the NBA(more obviously then what Kobe did)? NO, you don't. THERE IS A REASON FOR THIS!!!. Stop being so freaking close-minded and pay attention to what actually goes on...

If your pivot foot leaves the ground just slightly before your non-pivot foot, no ref is gonna call it on any player, but if you're obviously lifting your pivot foot, then jumping off your non-pivot foot, then yeah, that's traveling. I don't care what some pdf says, if you've ever played basketball you know that it's a travel. There's a reason nobody ever pulls that move in games.

What he said...

I still never understood your move. Left side of the basket with a right foot pivot, reverse pivot to put your back to the basket then step through how to get to the other side?

[marcroboy]

No... the discussion on the last 100 postings is about:

1. Pivoting
2. Making a step towards the basket out of the pivot while leaving the ground with the pivot foot to gain more ground and better balance
3. Jumping from the non-pivot foot

I have no idea if that's legal. The pdf posted with the rules says, it becomes a travelling when the pivot foot touches the ground again. But I'm not sold 100% somehow, because the basic concept of the pivot step is, that you are travelling when you leave your pivot foot while still holding the ball.

The thing is that NBA rule distinguishes between taking dribbling and shooting/passing. If you leave your pivot foot while still holding the ball and proceeds to dribble then it's a travel. However if you lift your pivot foot to shoot/pass, it's governed differently, in that your non pivot foot can still be on the ground. I have posted the pivot section from the NBA rule book, I bet the reason they treat shooting/pass differently from dribbling is to allow these kind of moves.

I too was skeptical at first but given how NBA abides to rules 100% (Portland/Celtics incident), and the only time they deviate from these rules is when they choose to omit something as opposed to adding new restrictions/penalties, I had no choice but to accept it.

[marcroboy]

Haha, I told you I wasn't the only one. I'm sure there are dozens, hundreds of other people on this board that are under the impression that you can't lift your pivot foot while the foot is on the ground. THERE IS A REASON FOR THIS. Just this afternoon I tried the move that I pointed out, and everyone on the court screamed travel. Even my teammates agreed with them. THERE IS A REASON FOR THIS. Do you see this move used in the NBA(more obviously then what Kobe did)? NO, you don't. THERE IS A REASON FOR THIS!!!. Stop being so freaking close-minded and pay attention to what actually goes on...

If your pivot foot leaves the ground just slightly before your non-pivot foot, no ref is gonna call it on any player, but if you're obviously lifting your pivot foot, then jumping off your non-pivot foot, then yeah, that's traveling. I don't care what some pdf says, if you've ever played basketball you know that it's a travel. There's a reason nobody ever pulls that move in games.

What he said...

I still never understood your move. Left side of the basket with a right foot pivot, reverse pivot to put your back to the basket then step through how to get to the other side?

Don't feed the attention whore

[sixerswillrule]

I still never understood your move. Left side of the basket with a right foot pivot, reverse pivot to put your back to the basket then step through how to get to the other side?

I said you're initially facing the basket. So that when you pivot around on your right foot, your back is now facing the basket and you're just about in front of the basket. Then big step with your left foot, pick up your right foot and big jump off of your left foot. There ya go, easy lay up on the right side of the basket. No one would see it coming. You can't stop it.

[sixerswillrule]

If you couldn't lift your pivot foot without shooting or passing then the jumpshot would be illegal.

That makes no sense.

If it was you had to jump off both feet at the same time the 1-2 layup steps would be illegal.

I explained that before. A 1-2 layup is done all in motion, either after stopping your dribble after catching a pass. That is completely legal. But when you've already stopped your dribble, or you just caught the ball and stopped and started pivoting, then your motion is done. You're not allowed any more steps.

If it was two feet leaving the ground is not a travel then you could land with the ball.

What the...

[mrfatwrecker]

Just this afternoon I tried the move that I pointed out, and everyone on the court screamed travel. Even my teammates agreed with them.

Doubt you play basketball. If you happened to play some crap pick up game with your toddler friends, who cares what they think is a travel. I bet you exaggerated it like crazy too, actually traveling. Or you're just straight lying to back up your claim.

Either way, that "PDF" was the NBA rulebook.

I too was skeptical at first but given how NBA abides to rules 100% (Portland/Celtics incident), and the only time they deviate from these rules is when they choose to omit something as opposed to adding new restrictions/penalties, I had no choice but to accept it.

Why can't you do this sixerstoddler? It's called manning up and admitting you're wrong. Are you above all reason? Logic does not apply to you?

[prophet_of_rage]

I still never understood your move. Left side of the basket with a right foot pivot, reverse pivot to put your back to the basket then step through how to get to the other side?

I said you're initially facing the basket. So that when you pivot around on your right foot, your back is now facing the basket and you're just about in front of the basket. Then big step with your left foot, pick up your right foot and big jump off of your left foot. There ya go, easy lay up on the right side of the basket. No one would see it coming. You can't stop it.

Okay so that's stance, inside pivot with the right foot as the pivot so your back is to the basket. Left foot is now in the key. You're facing the opposite basket. Now you step with the left foot, the right foot comes up and then you jump with the left foot into a reverse layup? How did you come to face the basket again?

Here's the up and under move. Facing the basket you pump fake. We'll keep the right foot as the pivot. As the defender straightens up, you step past with the left foot, plant, bring up the right foot and jump with the left to finish with the hook shot. Perfectly legal. Is that the move you were doing?

[sixerswillrule]

Do you have to be an ass in every single post that you make? Disagreeing is one thing, acting like a douchebag isn't necessary...

And no, college students aren't toddlers...

It's not just me. It's not the those were playing the game with me. It's not just the people on this board. I'm sure there are hundreds of people on this board, thousands of people everywhere who believe that is travel. That's how they play. That's how they see it played in the NBA. I'm not the one who just decided to call it a travel. It's known...

[mrfatwrecker]

Do you have to be an ass in every single post that you make? Disagreeing is one thing, acting like a douchebag isn't necessary...

And no, college students aren't toddlers...

It's not just me. It's not the those were playing the game with me. It's not just the people on this board. I'm sure there are hundreds of people on this board, thousands of people everywhere who believe that is travel. That's how they play. That's how they see it played in the NBA. I'm not the one who just decided to call it a travel. It's known...

I'm being harsh because you act like you're infallible and you're making a fool of yourself and proceeding to insult me right back.

The rules are in black and white in front of your face, but they are apparently irrelevant because the world goes by common sense ruling.

[sixerswillrule]

I did the move I laid out.

Okay so that's stance, inside pivot with the right foot as the pivot so your back is to the basket. Left foot is now in the key. You're facing the opposite basket. Now you step with the left foot, the right foot comes up and then you jump with the left foot into a reverse layup? How did you come to face the basket again?

Once you step with the left foot you pivot and turn around again(you say it's not a pivot because you don't bring your right foot down). It's not really a reverse layup, you're not coming from under the backboard.

[sixerswillrule]

I'm being harsh because you act like you're infallible and you're making a fool of yourself and proceeding to insult me right back.

No, you've been an ass since the beginning. I never insulted you until a few pages ago, when I listed those 10 times...And me believing that I'm correct doesn't give you right to be a douchebag...

[prophet_of_rage]

I did the move I laid out.

Okay so that's stance, inside pivot with the right foot as the pivot so your back is to the basket. Left foot is now in the key. You're facing the opposite basket. Now you step with the left foot, the right foot comes up and then you jump with the left foot into a reverse layup? How did you come to face the basket again?

Once you step with the left foot you pivot and turn around again(you say it's not a pivot because you don't bring your right foot down). It's not really a reverse layup, you're not coming from under the backboard.

Depending on whether your pivot foot dragged or not, the move sounds legal. It's basically the same as an up and under but your back is facing the basket. So you're turning outside to step rather than inside.

It shouldn't work because if you have any kind of defence on you the help will prevent you from stepping across the lane and there is a three in the key rule.