2025 NBA PLAYOFFS West First Round: #4 Denver Nuggets vs #5 LA Clippers (Series tied 2-2)

[hardenASG13]

I take it this is your first year watching him?

Reading this the fingers are being pointed at his supporting cast. However this is a 3x MVP, in his prime, showing poor leadership and underperforming massively with his passive play. Putting up solid stats, not dominating games at all. This is your GOAT peak? I'm not sure how'd anyone with eyes and who cares so much about basketball can keep going along with this.

Poor leadership = showing energy in the huddles, not coddling teammates who are underperforming, etc.?

"He has shown in previous playoffs he can": against mid or bad teams, yes. Amazing!

"Hes one of the best screen setters etc..."
Yep, he's really big and moves slightly/elbows when he screens. He is effective at it though, no argument there. But that action isn't that hard for a decent team to neutralize in a playoff series, seeing it night after night. It's not as effective as a guy who can penetrate and collapse a defense though, that gets the whole defense off balance/in rotation.

"The Nuggets can't afford him in foul trouble". He hasn't been in foul trouble, or close to it the last two games. When you're not in foul trouble you can challenge plays. Really, it's true. There are many bigs who regularly contest shots at the rim. And you know what? They somehow manage to not foul out of every game, or many games at all!

Re 3 point percentage: 47% that's great! He's shooting standstill and open 3s, that helps percentages. It's also not the same as a guy who is creating his own 3s and making them, for a superstar player. Thats when the other team is in trouble. His shooting isn't causing a problem for the Clippers in the slightest.

"Is this your first year watching him?": No, I've been saying this stuff for years, and getting attacked for it by posters like you as you know (good to have you back after that Minnesota series last year. That was.....bad for you).

"Poor leadership is showing energy in huddles and not coddling teammates ": No, poor leadership is body language galloping down the court, making almost 0 hustle plays, standing there when guys go in for layups/being flat footed on any remotely long rebound, turning it over in clutch situations, missing big FTs, deferring to Westbrook in games 1 and 2. This a 3x MVP, billed as the best player in the world. He hasn't dominated a single stretch of any game and we're 3 games in. His team is begging for him to take over, and he's playing his normal, efficient, triple double friendly game. That doesn't get it done vs a quality opponent. Their waiting for for the "GOAT peak" teammate to set the tone and play like. He hasn't wanted any part of that or shown the ability to do so.

Did Jokic play up to your standard today ?

Yes, Finally! How'd he do it? By being a more aggressive scorer than the previous 3 games, and playing more inside instead of spamming that top of the key DHO/pitchback stuff, which is exactly what I've said after each of the first 3 games. It opened things up for everyone, and raised the energy and confidence of his team. LA couldn't stop him when he put his head down and looked to score.

This is precisely why I criticized him the first 3 games. He's capable of this but hadn't even tried to do this until game 4. The Clippers (who maybe aren't the super team many are trying to make them out to be) cant stop him and aren't doubling, keep going to work.

[hardenASG13]

"He has shown in previous playoffs he can": against mid or bad teams, yes. Amazing!

"Hes one of the best screen setters etc..."
Yep, he's really big and moves slightly/elbows when he screens. He is effective at it though, no argument there. But that action isn't that hard for a decent team to neutralize in a playoff series, seeing it night after night. It's not as effective as a guy who can penetrate and collapse a defense though, that gets the whole defense off balance/in rotation.

"The Nuggets can't afford him in foul trouble". He hasn't been in foul trouble, or close to it the last two games. When you're not in foul trouble you can challenge plays. Really, it's true. There are many bigs who regularly contest shots at the rim. And you know what? They somehow manage to not foul out of every game, or many games at all!

Re 3 point percentage: 47% that's great! He's shooting standstill and open 3s, that helps percentages. It's also not the same as a guy who is creating his own 3s and making them, for a superstar player. Thats when the other team is in trouble. His shooting isn't causing a problem for the Clippers in the slightest.

"Is this your first year watching him?": No, I've been saying this stuff for years, and getting attacked for it by posters like you as you know (good to have you back after that Minnesota series last year. That was.....bad for you).

"Poor leadership is showing energy in huddles and not coddling teammates ": No, poor leadership is body language galloping down the court, making almost 0 hustle plays, standing there when guys go in for layups/being flat footed on any remotely long rebound, turning it over in clutch situations, missing big FTs, deferring to Westbrook in games 1 and 2. This a 3x MVP, billed as the best player in the world. He hasn't dominated a single stretch of any game and we're 3 games in. His team is begging for him to take over, and he's playing his normal, efficient, triple double friendly game. That doesn't get it done vs a quality opponent. Their waiting for for the "GOAT peak" teammate to set the tone and play like. He hasn't wanted any part of that or shown the ability to do so.

Did Jokic play up to your standard today ?

No he didn't shoot enough

Not at all. He DID shoot enough. And wouldn't you know it, Denver played their best game. Should I be ashamed of being right in my criticism? He has to keep playing like this, I don't know why it took 4 games.

[BruttoNostra]

GG Nugs

Dude, respect for that post, not taking part then in one of the worst game threads in a while.
Clippers with healthy enough Kawhi and with THIS Zubac are maybe the best team to stop Jokic.
I think this series deserves to be 2-2 and not 1-3 - and all Jokic haters here forget that even if basket wasn't counted (and no foul was called on the dunk), it still would be an overtime, and between "clutch" Harden (but with an awesome supporting cast) and clutch Jokic (with Gordon and 3 conuses) it would be a toss, actually.

Anyway, if before the series and even after 1-1 I was sure Nuggets will advance, now I would say it's 60% the Clippers are advancing. Just more tools in O and D. As already mentioned, Nuggets probably have only 3 of top-10 players in this series (and probably 3 of top-12) - I mean, even Ben Simmons (not today though) is better than whatever Nuggets bench. Murray is such a net-negative player, with such a bad decision-making time after time, so if his iso doesn't work, he is useless, and ballhogs his team time after time.

[Ruma85]

Did Jokic play up to your standard today ?

No he didn't shoot enough

Not at all. He DID shoot enough. And wouldn't you know it, Denver played their best game. Should I be ashamed of being right in my criticism? He has to keep playing like this, I don't know why it took 4 games.

Because things are not always black & white, if you want to be ashamed, go ahead.

[BelgradeNugget]

One thing I can say so far is that Zu is the most underrated player in the NBA.

Borderline the best Clippers player in this series, and most consistent for sure.
His defense on Jokic, many times not shown in box score because Jokic chooses not to post up / not to shoot is just the best I've seen on Jokic in years.
To combine it with 19/11/3 on 65% from the field is so underrated.
Jokic still puts his stats, but it's playoff Jokic who always elevates his game in the playoffs and he works very hard for every point, eye-test confirmed.

Under-rated by the casuals and ESPN highlight fans yeah- anyone who's actually watched ball these last 5+ seasons know that Zu has been the best Jokic stopper in the league. Jokic will still get his but Zu forces him to play more outside and that has a major effect on the team offensively. Plus the rebounding, the best player to contest there.

Thing with him is not only he is a great defender, he turn himself into legitimate offensive weapon. Automatic from floater range (I read somewhere he had better % from floater range than Jok), automatic hook shot. He will be all star in the next 2-3 seasons. Not on the Jok level or healthy Embiid/healthy AD level, but right under with Shengun, KAT...

[BruttoNostra]

One thing I can say so far is that Zu is the most underrated player in the NBA.

Borderline the best Clippers player in this series, and most consistent for sure.
His defense on Jokic, many times not shown in box score because Jokic chooses not to post up / not to shoot is just the best I've seen on Jokic in years.
To combine it with 19/11/3 on 65% from the field is so underrated.
Jokic still puts his stats, but it's playoff Jokic who always elevates his game in the playoffs and he works very hard for every point, eye-test confirmed.

Under-rated by the casuals and ESPN highlight fans yeah- anyone who's actually watched ball these last 5+ seasons know that Zu has been the best Jokic stopper in the league. Jokic will still get his but Zu forces him to play more outside and that has a major effect on the team offensively. Plus the rebounding, the best player to contest there.

I would say he's underrated by the media as well.
Too many are focused on PPG only. If he was more selfish and took more shoot (even bad ones), he would clear 20 ppg in the regular season eaily and his FG% would still be way over 50% - for casuals/media it would be enough to raise him into an all-star discussion and maybe even all NBA (expect for people like Perk for obvious reasons).

[hardenASG13]

No he didn't shoot enough

Not at all. He DID shoot enough. And wouldn't you know it, Denver played their best game. Should I be ashamed of being right in my criticism? He has to keep playing like this, I don't know why it took 4 games.

Because things are not always black & white, if you want to be ashamed, go ahead.

No, I don't. Again, this is EXACTLY what I've been criticizing him for in this series. Many of you (you, cubbies, Alatan) have attacked me for saying he should ditch the spamming of dho/pitchbacks at the top, and be a more aggressive scorer, going inside with a vengeance. Alatan said it would kill their spacing and wouldn't work. Special puppy said I had no understanding of how basketball worked. Yet, it worked pretty good (the sad part is, you all probably watch/follow Denver alot more than me, and couldnt see or acknowledge this)!

He needs to keep it up, I want to see a Jokic vs SGA matchup.

[hauntedcomputer]

Only Gokic is GENIUS enough to know he has to airball in that situation because if it hits the rim, time expires.

4-D CHESS BBIQ!

[Ruma85]

Not at all. He DID shoot enough. And wouldn't you know it, Denver played their best game. Should I be ashamed of being right in my criticism? He has to keep playing like this, I don't know why it took 4 games.

Because things are not always black & white, if you want to be ashamed, go ahead.

No, I don't. Again, this is EXACTLY what I've been criticizing him for in this series. Many of you (you, cubbies, Alatan) have attacked me for saying he should ditch the spamming of dho/pitchbacks at the top, and be a more aggressive scorer, going inside with a vengeance. Alatan said it would kill their spacing and wouldn't work. Special puppy said I had no understanding of how basketball worked. Yet, it worked pretty good (the sad part is, you all probably watch/follow Denver alot more than me, and couldnt see or acknowledge this)!

He needs to keep it up, I want to see a Jokic vs SGA matchup.

It worked, because others step up.

[hardenASG13]

Because things are not always black & white, if you want to be ashamed, go ahead.

No, I don't. Again, this is EXACTLY what I've been criticizing him for in this series. Many of you (you, cubbies, Alatan) have attacked me for saying he should ditch the spamming of dho/pitchbacks at the top, and be a more aggressive scorer, going inside with a vengeance. Alatan said it would kill their spacing and wouldn't work. Special puppy said I had no understanding of how basketball worked. Yet, it worked pretty good (the sad part is, you all probably watch/follow Denver alot more than me, and couldnt see or acknowledge this)!

He needs to keep it up, I want to see a Jokic vs SGA matchup.

It worked, because others step up.

Others stepped up, because they fed off Jokics aggressiveness. When a star is dominating like that, attacking aggressively, it opens everything up and raises the confidence of secondary options. He had been too passive the first 3 games, clearly. Look what he/Denver did yesterday!

[lethalizer]

They wont suspend him for standing in the corner in the playoffs get real bro

The rule says he should be suspended, I expect the NBA to follow its rules.

You must be new to this

No, I'm actually not new to this.

[lethalizer]

They wont suspend him for standing in the corner in the playoffs get real bro

The rule says he should be suspended, I expect the NBA to follow its rules.

No, the rule actually does not say that if you leave the bench, you are suspended. The rule says this:

“all players not participating in the game must remain in the immediate vicinity of their bench"

So there is a grey area, "immediate vicinity" could be 2 feet, 3 feet, 4 feet, whatever you say it is. They held him back, and he did not join the altercation, so they might not suspend him. It could also just as likely happen, we'll see. I think it's going to be the correct decision either way. Is there precedence for suspending players who only took a couple of steps before being held back?

He left the bench and sprinted, was held after reaching the painted area even.

There is no argument when it comes to the "immediate vicinity of the bench". The man was on the court itself.

This is not as gray as you think. The league may look the other way because he didn't actually do anything, but that would be the only reason, not the "immediate vicinity" wording.

[Ito]

Plays like Aaron Gordon’s can shift a whole series or make the difference

[JM00n69]

Borderline the best Clippers player in this series, and most consistent for sure.
His defense on Jokic, many times not shown in box score because Jokic chooses not to post up / not to shoot is just the best I've seen on Jokic in years.
To combine it with 19/11/3 on 65% from the field is so underrated.
Jokic still puts his stats, but it's playoff Jokic who always elevates his game in the playoffs and he works very hard for every point, eye-test confirmed.

Under-rated by the casuals and ESPN highlight fans yeah- anyone who's actually watched ball these last 5+ seasons know that Zu has been the best Jokic stopper in the league. Jokic will still get his but Zu forces him to play more outside and that has a major effect on the team offensively. Plus the rebounding, the best player to contest there.

Thing with him is not only he is a great defender, he turn himself into legitimate offensive weapon. Automatic from floater range (I read somewhere he had better % from floater range than Jok), automatic hook shot. He will be all star in the next 2-3 seasons. Not on the Jok level or healthy Embiid/healthy AD level, but right under with Shengun, KAT...

I think All Star is difficult for Zu to get but he should defo be All-NBA worthy even it's it 3rd team this year. if Clips had a healthy Kahwi all year they have a better record and Zu would be a lock for one of the All NBA teams

[JM00n69]

Borderline the best Clippers player in this series, and most consistent for sure.
His defense on Jokic, many times not shown in box score because Jokic chooses not to post up / not to shoot is just the best I've seen on Jokic in years.
To combine it with 19/11/3 on 65% from the field is so underrated.
Jokic still puts his stats, but it's playoff Jokic who always elevates his game in the playoffs and he works very hard for every point, eye-test confirmed.

Under-rated by the casuals and ESPN highlight fans yeah- anyone who's actually watched ball these last 5+ seasons know that Zu has been the best Jokic stopper in the league. Jokic will still get his but Zu forces him to play more outside and that has a major effect on the team offensively. Plus the rebounding, the best player to contest there.

I would say he's underrated by the media as well.
Too many are focused on PPG only. If he was more selfish and took more shoot (even bad ones), he would clear 20 ppg in the regular season eaily and his FG% would still be way over 50% - for casuals/media it would be enough to raise him into an all-star discussion and maybe even all NBA (expect for people like Perk for obvious reasons).

100% that's why I said ESPN fans, they follow what the main NBA media channel puts out and most people go by that unfortunately. He's top 5 rebounder all season with very decent scoring nrs given he's never had a play called for him and he sets great screens, good mobility and BBIQ. Great durability, the guy is a very big piece of the Clips but media will talk about Harden/Kahwi because they are big names.

[Sofia]

They wont suspend him for standing in the corner in the playoffs get real bro

The rule says he should be suspended, I expect the NBA to follow its rules.

No, the rule actually does not say that if you leave the bench, you are suspended. The rule says this:

“all players not participating in the game must remain in the immediate vicinity of their bench"

So there is a grey area, "immediate vicinity" could be 2 feet, 3 feet, 4 feet, whatever you say it is. They held him back, and he did not join the altercation, so they might not suspend him. It could also just as likely happen, we'll see. I think it's going to be the correct decision either way. Is there precedence for suspending players who only took a couple of steps before being held back?

I’m not saying I want him to be suspended, but it’s only his own fault if he does miss a game. I think walking onto the court and into the key area is bit of a stretch of “immediate vicinity of the bench”

Guess we’ll see how strictly NBA applies its own rules.

[Ice Man]

Jimmy Valvano was watching from above.

[cgf]

Think this is the only series that goes 7.

[Bergmaniac]

Legendary game with a crazy finish, Amazing Jokic with timely help from AG, Porter and Braun, but they almost scuandered their lead largely due to tiredness. The Nuggets bench gave them absolutely nothing, they had a 20 poins lead and their coach still left his starters in, that's how little he trusts his bench at this point and how bad they looked in the first half apart from DJ who was decent. And on their last defensive possession he took out Porter but left Murray in despite needing a stop, since Watson is their only bench player who he trusts to defend with Westbrook out (and Westbrook is hardly a defensive stopper). The Clippers extended a lot of energy too and their stars are older, but their bench is so much deeper, not sure if the Nuggets would have enough energy to pull off the series win. The Thunder must be loving this though.

[Wolfgang630]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=XO0PgrZjS-uU8MmGKL8grQ

This guy continues to be in rarified air