OJ Mayo 40 points 8 rebounds 3 assists against James Harden

[orangeparka]

Really like what Mayo's doing. Scoring when his team needs a bucket and never seems to force anything. You don't really see any bad shooting nights from him.

He took 9 shots and had 19 on really good efficiency.

If he continues to play this well with Dirk back, he's my vote for MVP.

Not like the Mavs are horrible or anything either.

[dyukcs]

Really like what Mayo's doing. Scoring when his team needs a bucket and never seems to force anything. You don't really see any bad shooting nights from him.

He took 9 shots and had 19 on really good efficiency.

If he continues to play this well with Dirk back, he's my vote for MVP.

Not like the Mavs are horrible or anything either.

Yep, a lot of people are reflexively going to the 'good numbers on a bad team' explanation, but he's scored 25.7 ppg in ours wins and 16.0 ppg in our losses. We depend on him to score or we can't win, and he's coming through more often than not.

There's no hidden drawback, he's just playing very well and helping his team win. The only question is how consistent can he be over the season.

[lilojmayo]

Really like what Mayo's doing. Scoring when his team needs a bucket and never seems to force anything. You don't really see any bad shooting nights from him.

He took 9 shots and had 19 on really good efficiency.

If he continues to play this well with Dirk back, he's my vote for MVP.

Not like the Mavs are horrible or anything either.

What some of you guys are failing to realize is just how valuable OJ is to the Mavs. In terms of value to a team you can make a case he is right how top 5 most valuable player to a team.

I mean his split stats do all the talking in the 11 wins so far this season

iWhen the Mavs Win : OJ Mayo: 25/4/4 55% FG 61 % 3pt 84% FT
When the Mavs lose: OJ Mayo : 16/4/4 40% FG 40% 3pt 84 % FT

the guy has to put up video game numbers/efficiency just for his team to have a chance at winning the game.
When he has a bad game, mavs get blown out 20+ points.


If that doesn't scare value to a team, i dont know what does

[monopolyman]

People are acting like being a more efficient offensive player means jack. Games are often decided by two or three possesions, and Mayo is a big factor in why Mavs> Rockets.

Also, players like Kaman are much more efficient because Mayo excells so much in the iso game (2nd in the league)....meaning he spaces the floor not just because he's a great shooter, but because he can create his own shot. He is assisted in over 50% of his shots because the pick and pop system the Mavs run (he will only be better with Dirk back just like Jason Terry's stats were inflated), but he also gets a fair number of his shots in iso situations.

You can say it hasn't been close...but that just isn't accurate.

I suppose if his team sucked like Harden's does, he could be a volume shooter, have a little higher usage %, and play 5 more minutes a game....inflating his stats, but that isn't necessary. Production vs efficiency wise, it has been very close

[monopolyman]

Continued....

However, I think Mayo's top asset is being a floor spacer for his teammates and his ability to score in iso situations (top 5 in the game with 1.4 points, well above Harden)

That is why I believe the players are prerty close. Clearly you disagree....but it is no longer worth debating over

I wouldn't disagree that they've been close this year, but I'm really not seeing any other stat that mayo has been better in outside of scoring efficiency.

You don't disagree because offensive efficiency is a huge deal...again

slightly higher usage %, volume shooting, and 40 mpg all contribute to the inflated stats (because his team isn't veey good)

Have them switch places, and their basic stat line would likely be very close

[spearsy23]

Continued....

However, I think Mayo's top asset is being a floor spacer for his teammates and his ability to score in iso situations (top 5 in the game with 1.4 points, well above Harden)

That is why I believe the players are prerty close. Clearly you disagree....but it is no longer worth debating over

I wouldn't disagree that they've been close this year, but I'm really not seeing any other stat that mayo has been better in outside of scoring efficiency.

You don't disagree because offensive efficiency is a huge deal...again

slightly higher usage %, volume shooting, and 40 mpg all contribute to the inflated stats (because his team isn't veey good)

Have them switch places, and their basic stat line would likely be very close

Except it wouldn't because harden still does everything better than mayo except shoot. The teams are barely any different, what two games separate them?

[Ayt]

It is impossible that Mayo remains this efficient from three. It will be fun to revisit this thread when he moves back down to the 35-40% mark from three. Beyond his scoring, he's subpar.

He's going to plummet from where he is now in terms of his outside shooting.

[lilojmayo]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBvUc3j7GfI[/youtube];




You guys love your advance stats. I just do the eye test as Skip Bayless would say.

That video is indicative of Mayo vs Harden debate.

One guy balls so hard, the other flops so hard.

[rockmanslim]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBvUc3j7GfI[/youtube];




You guys love your advance stats. I just do the eye test as Skip Bayless would say.

That video is indicative of Mayo vs Harden debate.

One guy balls so hard, the other flops so hard.

I have to agree that Mayo's game is more aesthetically pleasing than Harden's. The problem is that the league already set a bad precedent with Wade. Barreling into the lane and flailing for whistles makes you a more effective and efficient player, and I'm pretty sure advanced stats support that. Harden takes full advantage.

[tsherkin]

You guys love your advance stats. I just do the eye test as Skip Bayless would say.

Skip Bayless is an idiot, though, so I'm not sure you really want to hang your hat on that comparison, and 3P% isn't an "advanced stat." Nor is the principle that a player who has never shot anything like the level at which he is currently performing will regress a particularly strange notion.

Now let me run this again, going over Mayo's career:

3P%, 3PA/g, Ast%, GP

08-09: 38.4%, 4.6, 80.7%, 82
09-10: 38.3%, 4.3, 81.6%, 82
10-11: 36.4%, 3.7, 91.7%, 71
11-12: 36.4%, 4.2, 81.0%, 66
12-13: 52.5%, 5.5, 83.6%, 21

How many different ways can someone say "shooting streak" before it sinks in?

He's had over 300 games before this season at high volume and comparable levels of passing support and he's never done this before. We're a quarter of the way through the season; it's a really small sample and it's a really hot shooting streak. This is painfully apparent. Mayo's playing really well, but this thread is hyperbole and reactionist, typical GB fodder. That's huge volume and a large sample, and he's never done anything like this. There isn't an appreciable difference in the nature of the shots that he's getting and we've always known him to be a high-quality spot-up shooter.

To the comment about isolation play: Mayo's isolation efficiency is propped up by shooting over 47% from 3 in isolation sets. The likelihood of that continuing is extremely low. I think just about everyone is aware that perimeter shots out of an iso set are way lower-efficiency than they are through set offense or in transition and that 47% is not a sustainable number, just like the 62% he's shooting from 3 in spot-up situations. Then you look at his sub 0.8 PPP in PnR sets and we start to realize that a little deeper; he's not that great with the ball. It's part of why he was never a good option at the point.

Even the most delusional of homers must accept that these numbers aren't going to sustain, not at this level. He's going to still finish the season performing at a high level because he's found offensive freedom in a system where he's got good spacing and passing support, but my word, I can't believe we're even having a serious discussion over his performance as if it ISN'T going to regress eventually.

Mayo's having a great season start, kind of like Melo; why can't we just leave it at that?

[Captain_Obvious]

It is impossible that Mayo remains this efficient from three. It will be fun to revisit this thread when he moves back down to the 35-40% mark from three. Beyond his scoring, he's subpar.

He's going to plummet from where he is now in terms of his outside shooting.

At this point I doubt he will drop below 40%. That doesn't mean I believe he is that great of a shooter as he is performing in this sample size though. The story is that coming to Dallas Mayo thought his shot mechanics were his best asset but Carlisle actually worked on that facet a lot with him. It is not outlandish to think he improved a lot on his shooting over the offseason. We will see though....

[MaliBrah]

hey liloj , im going to the raptors vs mavs game tonight sitting not to far from the court , i'll probably go down to watch the shootaround up close , anything I should ask oj for you?

I might just tell him that his biggest fan ever hopped off the bandwagon only to hop on again this year. Unless you dont want me to....ahah

[tsherkin]

At this point I doubt he will drop below 40%.

I'm inclined to believe that, yeah. 43%+ seems likely unless he goes CRAZY cold for an equal or greater stretch.

It is not outlandish to think he improved a lot on his shooting over the offseason. We will see though....

That much, though? Dude's a career 39% shooter from three, or close to it. I don't think a single summer is going to radically alter things. Remember when Brandon Jennings shot 50% on 4.75 3PA/g over his first 16 games?

It's not at all unprecedented for a player to have a crazy shooting streak. Mike James shot 44.2% over 79 games on 4.8 3PA/g in 06 for the Raptors, same kind of thing. Shot 52% from 3 for 14 games in January and 50% for 9 games in April.

This looks a lot like a shooting streak from basically every angle of analysis, fun off-season stories aside.

[MaliBrah]

Maybe all his work in the LAB over the years is catching up .. lolool

[Ayt]

It is impossible that Mayo remains this efficient from three. It will be fun to revisit this thread when he moves back down to the 35-40% mark from three. Beyond his scoring, he's subpar.

He's going to plummet from where he is now in terms of his outside shooting.

At this point I doubt he will drop below 40%. That doesn't mean I believe he is that great of a shooter as he is performing in this sample size though. The story is that coming to Dallas Mayo thought his shot mechanics were his best asset but Carlisle actually worked on that facet a lot with him. It is not outlandish to think he improved a lot on his shooting over the offseason. We will see though....

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I meant he'd move down much closer to his career numbers for the remainder of the season. Because he started out so hot he's likely going to finish with a high percentage.

[nitetrain8603]

At this point I doubt he will drop below 40%.

I'm inclined to believe that, yeah. 43%+ seems likely unless he goes CRAZY cold for an equal or greater stretch.

It is not outlandish to think he improved a lot on his shooting over the offseason. We will see though....

That much, though? Dude's a career 39% shooter from three, or close to it. I don't think a single summer is going to radically alter things. Remember when Brandon Jennings shot 50% on 4.75 3PA/g over his first 16 games?

It's not at all unprecedented for a player to have a crazy shooting streak. Mike James shot 44.2% over 79 games on 4.8 3PA/g in 06 for the Raptors, same kind of thing. Shot 52% from 3 for 14 games in January and 50% for 9 games in April.

This looks a lot like a shooting streak from basically every angle of analysis, fun off-season stories aside.

No it doesn't. First, you're not taking into consideration that the guy really hasn't had a chance since the 1st half of his rookie season to show what he's fully capable of. So, how would you know what he can or can't do when he's never been in the position to do it before like he is now?

Secondly, there are tons of players who drastically increase their volume and still increase their three point percentage. Derrick Rose is someone off the top of my head who did it.

Derrick Rose in his first two years average less than 1 3P FGA per game. And he shot about 24% doing so. His third year, he increased his attempts to almost 5 per game and shot 33%.

It's not crazy to think, a guy who had superstar potential coming out and has a much better shooting stroke than Derrick Rose and practices with him in the offseason can increase his throughput and percentage over the course of a season.

[tsherkin]

No it doesn't. First, you're not taking into consideration that the guy really hasn't had a chance since the 1st half of his rookie season to show what he's fully capable of. So, how would you know what he can or can't do when he's never been in the position to do it before like he is now?

Honest questions:

Do you believe he will continue to shoot 50%+ from 3?

Do you not recognize how atypical, even for mega-shooting stars better than Mayo, to shoot as well as he is out of isolations?

Do you not see the similar volume of attempts and similar proportion of passing support he's enjoyed even when he wasn't permitted as many on-ball plays?

Do you understand that I'm not saying Mayo is crap or that he is going to suddenly turn into a 30% 3P shooter, but that twice now I've said I expect his 3pt shooting to remain over 43%?

Secondly, there are tons of players who drastically increase their volume and still increase their three point percentage. Derrick Rose is someone off the top of my head who did it.

Not to this extent. History disagrees with you. So does the basic nature of jump shooting, and the principle of diminshing returns.

It's not crazy to think, a guy who had superstar potential coming out

Which Mayo did not. He never had the size, athleticism/physical tools, court vision or playmaking talent to be a superstar guard.

I don't think you appreciate the magnitude of what Mayo's 3P% represents. Shooting well is one thing; shooting over 50%? That's something else entirely.

[RebelWithACause]

Not to this extent. History disagrees with you. So does the basic nature of jump shooting, and the principle of diminshing returns.

What about Ibaka this season? Wade after his first season from midrange!
Amare Stoudemire improved his jumper dramatically in an off season (or 2) going from non existent to almost elite

[Krodis]

Not to this extent. History disagrees with you. So does the basic nature of jump shooting, and the principle of diminshing returns.

What about Ibaka this season? Wade after his first season from midrange!
Amare Stoudemire improved his jumper dramatically in an off season (or 2) going from non existent to almost elite

They made improvements in their jumper. They didn't turn into the best shooter ever in an off-season, which is what Mayo has done if you expect him to keep shooting at this rate.

[tsherkin]

What about Ibaka this season?

2% higher than last year, but not uber-relevant due to sample size.

Wade after his first season from midrange!

Health, the acquisition of Shaq and settling after leaping from JuCo to Marquette to the NBA. Also, taking 100 more on the year changed the sample a bit. Also, the new rules for hand checking. Noisy, noisy transition, that. Also, 10- to 15-foot jumpers, not 3pt shots, not quite the same.

Amare Stoudemire improved his jumper dramatically in an off season (or 2) going from non existent to almost elite

Not as a 3pt shooter. He made a big improvement, sure, but it was a) highly atypical (like the improvement from Karl Malone and the Dream at the FT line) and b) from a shorter distance.