Jason Kidd to Coach the Nets

[Paradise]

What are people not getting? They went with a coach that the players respect and believe in.

Brain Shaw is more unknowm than Kidd's BBIQ with players which has more of a chance to rub off on the team.

I wanted Shaw but It's not that hard to see why it was done.

[tsherkin]

Trader I am too lazy to go read your posts. I am not a fan of the move but what is your take on this?

...

"I'm too lazy to read your take on this in the posts you've already made, so please repeat what you've already said?"

Really? C'mon, man. Facilitate forward movement in the discussion.

[Trader_Joe]

Trader I am too lazy to go read your posts. I am not a fan of the move but what is your take on this?

I like it.

I liked Shaw as well but..
a. I think he preferred LAC and I think the Nets acted quickly so at least it looked like they got their guy and weren't dumped in favor of the Clippers
b. If he didn't want to be here, I want someone who did and Kidd desperately wanted this

As for Kidd as a coach...

I don't know how he'll be, but in general he's had success wherever he's gone. He knows the game as well as any player I've watched and has been a leader, captain and essentially assistant coach most of his career. He's always garnered the respect of his teammates and front office. He's also made his teammates better, especially young ones like he did in NJ (K.Mart, RJ, Krstic, Moore, etc.). The fact he will be able to be on the practice court with them and playing with them will also be a big positive. Deron has a lot to learn from Kidd, and his back up Taylor a ton to learn. I also think Kidd has the ability to add heart to this team that they seriously lack. Our offense will be much more fluid and less ISO heavy I have to assume, which is what we need.

Experience wise I'm not worried. It will be a team effort from the sidelines with some rather high profile assistants, and he's also played for a plethora of quality coaches over the years to draw from. I also think he's had this in mind for some time and has been studying from his coaches.

What I do worry about is his character/maturity. He's is less than a year removed from a DUI that still hasn't been settled. I think he has problems with alcohol and I hope that he has received help with that and is smart enough to not go out on the road or in NYC and get himself into trouble. He went through extensive counseling and community service for his domestic violence assault and heard he went beyond what was required so hopefully he did the same here.

As for the Nets perspective..
Of course this is gimmicky and risky, but so has every move they've done since they've moved to Brooklyn.

However I think is a good risk and gimmick.

They have a chance to build something long term here and build a culture with their greatest player ever.
As for the risk, I don't think Kidd can fail miserably. He's never failed in the NBA, and he will have a support net around him that won't allow him too. But the reward could be big. The Nets know they have limited to means to get better and that their coach would be their biggest FA signing.

I think they needed to go with new blood. They did the retread approach with Pop disciples in Avery and PJC. Neither were effective coaches. I'm glad they didn't go after Karl (playoff record), Larry Brown (old, quitter), Hollins (offensively challenged control freak) or the Van Gundys.

Finally one other thing which I like from this signing is that players are going to want to play for Kidd (I assume) Those veteran minimum FA signings could be players wanting to play in NYC for Kidd for perhaps a discount or at least in place of other teams.

I am very excited and hope it works out.
I think year 1 may have some growing pains, but I would expect things looking good by the playoffs and in subsequent years.

[Niko23]

Thanks for the info. I thought Hollins would have been a good fit but I agree with the Retreads. I did not like the Byron Scott hire in Cleveland and while Mike Brown is back - I think he is a little different. If they can surround him with great assistants that play to his strengths/weaknesses - it very well may pan out - Jason Kidd that is

And Tsher! I am at work man - gotta get my post in at the most efficient way possible! LOL

[DrVanNostrand]

Best case scenario he runs the team fine and/or Derron doesn't get him fired.

Worst case scenario he runs the team into a tree.

Sent from my phone using Fapatalk 2

[tsherkin]

And Tsher! I am at work man - gotta get my post in at the most efficient way possible! LOL

So backread over multiple trips, man. C+P the posts into a text file for later perusing, there are always ways.



Ultimately, there's no sensible reason to criticize this move: the Nets have a cap on their potential for success based on their roster construction. They're not going to be legitimate contenders for a title, though they do have some room to improve and compete within their conference. A coach isn't going to be sufficient to change that fact, no matter how good.


Some Nets-related discussion.

Spoiler:

The Nets played really, really slow last season (under 89 possessions per game, 3rd-slowest in the league). They were below average defensively and that was their biggest problem. They could maybe get a little better on O, but they were already 8th, so that's OK. Kidd coaching and mentoring Deron will probably be the most valuable thing he does in his first season, and hopefully he delegates a lot of the more technical stuff to his assistants (plays out of timeouts, basic offensive strategy, defensive scheme, etc).

JJ's albatross contract is still on the books for three more years of over $20M per and he is a bad scorer, though he is excellent at protecting the ball and a mildly underrated playmaker who can hit the 3, so if they reduce his usage (if they can ignore the disproportionate production versus salary), then they might improve a little on offense. What I hope Kidd does is really emphasize action out of Deron and Lopez, the only truly good offensive players they have. JJ needs to play more like he did in 2005 for the Suns and the Nets need to find a competitive edge somehow. Bropez looks good with a PG, he always has, so if they can leverage that more effectively and maybe open up the throttle just a little bit more, that should help them out a lot.

What Kidd needs to do is establish a rapport with the team and to keep them focused on competing and on defense. If he can do that, it'll be a building block moving forward that the management team should try and work with. Honestly, there's not a ton he can do to really destroy this team, so he just needs to focus on getting them prepared for each game and manage the minutes of his starters sensibly. The rest will mostly work itself out. It's kind of why the Pistons were still effective when Saunders took over for Brown, even though Saunders is a mediocre coach: the defensive fundamentals and player talent were both still present and carried forward. He focused them a little more on offense and they improved their, but the players knew how to play at the NBA level on both ends of the floor, they had things that worked and stuck to it. The Nets will be able to do the same. On too many teams, the coach is really more of a scapegoat than an impact addition.

[SpeedyG]

the job shouldve gone to shaw, he put in his dues as a assistant coach, kidd didnt...its a travesty kidd can just leap frog over former players who have paid their dues as working asst coaching jobs and have more rings

Moreover..this is Professional sports. Past dues means nothing...It's what you can do for the team today that does. If they feel Kidd can do that, then he should get the job as opposed to someone who they feel can't do that simply because he has "paid his dues"

They could be wrong of course...but that's their decision to make.

[kakaman]

Billy King said he consulted Coach K on the decision

[diablerouge]

Huge mistake IMO

based on what? mark jackson is doing just fine, larry bird was pretty good in indiana. imo football is the only major sport where you need to be groomed to coach even if you have a lot of experience playing. doc rivers and kevin mchale were never asst coaches. if you go back, donn nelson and lenny wilkens went straight to HC jobs, they did ok to say the least.

Jackson/Bird/Mchale/Rivers did not go from playing to coaching immediately. Horrible examples

And Nelson/Wilkens did this 1000 years ago. Nelson was barely 500 in his first 3 seasons and Wilkens in his first 5 seasons. Is Brooklyn looking to rebuild?

so playing to coaching is a no-go but doing a stint in a broadcasting booth or in a front office would help kidd become a better head coach? you're not really on solid ground with that argument.

are you implying that coaching nba basketball was easier in nelson or wilkens' days? you're not really on solid ground with that argument either.

stating that nelson or wilkens were coaching 500 clubs in their first few years proves what exactly? by that logic, you must be surprised that casey didn't get the raptors to the playoffs in his first year. former asst coach! won ringzz!

[Niko23]

Not that difficult to understand. It is an unconventional approach. For a team that is looking to compete for an NBA championship next year - I would be concerned.

[turtlesnjoi]

Guy sounded completely clueless at his press conference.

[tsherkin]

It behooves one to remember that there are different kinds of coaches and that some styles aren't suited to championship contention but remain pretty good. Approach and delegation of responsibilities are also very important factors.

Talent is the ultimate determinant, though, that seems to be the underlying theme behind coaching in general. Someone like Thibs is an excellent coach, one of the best we've seen in a long time and behind a fairly significant revolution in contemporary defense responding to the rules changes, but if you gave him a total scrub team, he wouldn't be able to do a ton more than what Scott Skiles has done with mediocre teams. This is why it's always amusing to hear people try to undermine Phil Jackson by discussing what he'd do with a rebuilding team, as if that matters.

so playing to coaching is a no-go but doing a stint in a broadcasting booth or in a front office would help kidd become a better head coach? you're not really on solid ground with that argument.

The broadcast booth wouldn't do anything at all for his coaching ability, nor would time spent in the front office. Broadcasters watch basketball; Kidd's spent nearly 20 years in the NBA watching game tape and playing games, practicing, etc. There's nothing he's going to learn from there which he hasn't already picked up on. Front office jobs wouldn't help him at all either. Scouting would perhaps help make him a better GM, but nothing at all about those roles would really translate to the bench.

I guess I'm agreeing with your premise here. Playing isn't a guarantee, because the most important head coach skills actually aren't related to Xs and Os (although the best of the best combine those with the real skills), they're more interpersonal.

[sp6r=underrated]

I gave a general response to your post here. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1255671&start=75#p36108170

I have no strong opinion on who the Nets or Nuggets should hire.

My problem with the Kidd hire is the logic behind the move. I am strongly convinced that the reason the Nets hired Kidd is primarily because they want a big star to be head coach because management is obsessed with that stuff.

As an analogy think back to your high school math classes. You were graded not just for getting the right answer but being able to show the work (the logic behind how you reached the decision). If you wrote down the right answer but didn't show your work because you guessed you didn't get any points. The reason you didn't get any points is because guessing in the long run is an inefficient method of solving math problems and will lead to poor outcomes.

Hiring a coach for to get a big name as Head Coach may occasionally work but in the long run IMO it leads to worse outcomes for the league with regards to the quality of coaching than hiring people for coaching quality. I made a thread a few weeks about the increasing number of coaches who were not former players or who were hired primarily for their coaching background rather playing experience. I think that is a good thing and should be encouraged.

The Nets hire from my perspective is a step in the wrong direction especially if the Nets get lucky and Kidd turns out to be a good coach because that means teams will again stop placing a strong value on coaching background and instead will increasingly value a big name due to his playing days.

That is why I am angry about the move.

Aren't you a Denver fan?

No. My favorite team is the Knicks. I do admire the Nuggets and Spurs alot and post about them frequently.

You have "no strong opinion" about who they hire, but who the Nets hire makes you "angry"?
Seems you do have a strong opinion about this.

I explained why before but as a writer you have to take responsibility if people find your writing confusing so I'll try again.

I am angry about this decision as a fan of the NBA rather than of any team. As a fan of the NBA what I want most of all is to watch the highest quality basketball. The quality of coaching impacts how good basketball can be.

In my opinion prior playing experience is of little importance to coaching. How big of a name a coach is of little importance to coaching quality. If every team hired on the basis of perceived coaching quality rather than how big of a name the coach is the level of play in the league would improve.

In recent years there has been a trend away from hiring people because of their playing experience and instead hiring for perceived coaching ability. I tried to get a discussion going on this topic a few weeks ago in a thread recently before the Kidd hire.

The Nets hired Kidd in my opinion, primarily, because he is a big name and that is what Nets management cares about. There were a lot of reports throughout the playoffs that the Nets were only interested in big names.

As such to me the Kidd hire is a step back in the wrong direction.

It ticks me off and I hope the Nets fail as a result.

I had a similar opinion on when the Suns hired Kerr for no reason other than his commentating skills to be GM. I rooted strongly against Phoenix after that decision was made because GMs should be hired based on actual management/team building skills rather than this guy is good on camera.

And I don't get this....

"If the Nets get lucky and Kidd turns out to be a good coach because that means teams will again stop placing a strong value on coaching background and instead will increasingly value a big name due to his playing days."

You really think other teams will follow the Net model because of this one hire?
I don't.

This is a league of copycats. If the Nets succeed with this hire more teams will be tempted to go the name route as head coach.

[sp6r=underrated]

The math analogy is bad. The purpose of a math class was for a student to learn the material. The purpose of selecting a coach is to well.. select a good candidate. What work is there that you need to show?

If he's a good coach, then he's a good coach. If he's bad, then he's bad.

The Nets could get lucky with their hire I don't dispute that but over the long run making decisions based on a strong logical support will lead to better results than a myopic focus on marketing (which is what this is). If you want the quality of the league to improve, which I am assuming everyone does, teams making decisions for intelligent reasons is essential.

This hire is a step in the wrong direction much like the Kerr as GM move was. I hope it fails.

[Paradise]

Kidd's vision:

1. Longevity – talked about the Spurs model and becoming the team that wins 50+ games for 12 straight seasons and establishing a structured game plan.

2. More dynamic motion offense – said that this is a team that should be scoring 100 points a game. He even talked about his days with the Nets where it felt they hit a wall at 88-89 points. This is going to be a MUCH more up tempo team than last season where the Nets ranked 29th in pace. Preaching ball movement and passing ahead.

3. Put a LOT of the responsibility on Deron – Deron was far and away the player mentioned the most in the press conference. He talked about what his own role was for teams and how it is now Deron’s job to be an extension of the coach. It’s up to Deron to respond to that pressure.

4. Player development – he talked about his own struggles early on in the league and how he developed to adapt to the NBA (my favorite joke was that he said “I came into the league not being a shooter and I guess I left the game the same way” lol). This basically is categorized for the likes of Wallace, Teletovic, Brooks, Taylor, Toko, etc.

5. More Brook Lopez – In almost every question involving the team roster, Kidd brought up Lopez and his ability. He’s young and as Kidd said, the sky’s the limit for him. He won't let them forget to feed the big man. This was the biggest thing I noticed because Lopez was Top 3 in 1st quarter scoring and last in 2nd half touches.

1 through 5 PJ and Avery collectively failed at establishing. So, far so good. Jason will have an influence on the roster, so I'm guessing he will have a voice in the draft and free agency process.

[tsherkin]

Thanks, Paradise.

1. Longevity – talked about the Spurs model and becoming the team that wins 50+ games for 12 straight seasons and establishing a structured game plan.

Structured game plan for sustainability is nice. They're going to have to get rid of JJ and Wallace, replacing them with better talent and injecting more youth for this to happpen, though. That will be very difficult.

2. More dynamic motion offense – said that this is a team that should be scoring 100 points a game. He even talked about his days with the Nets where it felt they hit a wall at 88-89 points. This is going to be a MUCH more up tempo team than last season where the Nets ranked 29th in pace. Preaching ball movement and passing ahead.

Makes sense, especially given his history in New Jersey and even more so if Frank comes aboard, since that is what Frank coaches. Nets were 28th in pace at 88.8, though. Ball movement and passing ahead is nice to hear, I hope it happens. Nets were a decent but not elite defensive rebounding team, so if they can improve there, then they might be able to key the break more effectively with bigs outletting the ball to the wing. Too bad Deron isn't as good a defensive rebounder as was Kidd himself, heh.

3. Put a LOT of the responsibility on Deron – Deron was far and away the player mentioned the most in the press conference. He talked about what his own role was for teams and how it is now Deron’s job to be an extension of the coach. It’s up to Deron to respond to that pressure.

Makes sense, given that Deron is the best player on the team and a PG like Kidd. This isn't news, nor is it more pressure than has Deron faced previously in his career, though. Same situation as he had in Utah and here in previous seasons. He'll be fine.

4. Player development – he talked about his own struggles early on in the league and how he developed to adapt to the NBA (my favorite joke was that he said “I came into the league not being a shooter and I guess I left the game the same way” lol). This basically is categorized for the likes of Wallace, Teletovic, Brooks, Taylor, Toko, etc.

Yeah, player development through player replacement would be the wisest course, though there are some semi-promising young talents on the squad.

5. More Brook Lopez – In almost every question involving the team roster, Kidd brought up Lopez and his ability. He’s young and as Kidd said, the sky’s the limit for him. He won't let them forget to feed the big man. This was the biggest thing I noticed because Lopez was Top 3 in 1st quarter scoring and last in 2nd half touches.

[/quote]

This is the money-maker right here, the Deron/Brook dynamic will be critical to their offensive success.

Did he say anything specific about helping the team to not-suck on defense?

[NyCeEvO]

5. More Brook Lopez – In almost every question involving the team roster, Kidd brought up Lopez and his ability. He’s young and as Kidd said, the sky’s the limit for him. He won't let them forget to feed the big man. This was the biggest thing I noticed because Lopez was Top 3 in 1st quarter scoring and last in 2nd half touches.

This is the money-maker right here, the Deron/Brook dynamic will be critical to their offensive success.

Did he say anything specific about helping the team to not-suck on defense?

That would require Brook becoming a better rim-protector.

He blocked more shots last season, but he didn't really deter players from shooting the ball when they came into the paint.

The Nets were 24th in the league in opponent PITP scoring. There were only three other playoff teams in the bottom 15 (BOS, MIL, LAL) and each of them including the Nets lost in the first round of the playoffs.

I like the fact that Kidd stressed that the Nets have to play hard and play defense, and I really hope that he can help Lopez with becoming a better rim protector. Otherwise, the same thing will happen next year unless there's a major upgrade defensively at the 4 spot.

[Paradise]

Thanks, Paradise.

1. Longevity – talked about the Spurs model and becoming the team that wins 50+ games for 12 straight seasons and establishing a structured game plan.

Structured game plan for sustainability is nice. They're going to have to get rid of JJ and Wallace, replacing them with better talent and injecting more youth for this to happpen, though. That will be very difficult.

Agreed. Good thing is, the Nets should get a bit younger this off-season with a few draft picks and Euro stashes coming over.

Did he say anything specific about helping the team to not-suck on defense?

He said "He will be expressing the importance of doing the little things. But championship teams are built on playing hard, playing defense and being accountable."

Nothing else in terms of schemes but Deron alluded to learning how to read certain passing lanes. So, I'm guessing a Memphis Grizzlies style defense?

Point Guard (Conley) and perimeter defender (Tony Allen) lures the offensive players into the lane for the big man (Gasol) to protect the rim and force turnovers by steals and passing lane interceptions.

[tsherkin]

That would require Brook becoming a better rim-protector.

Among other things, yes. Lopez's defense leaves much to be desired, as does his defensive rebounding. But he's not the only hole in their scheme. They need a more coherent plan on defense.

I like the fact that Kidd stressed that the Nets have to play hard and play defense,

That's what I was hoping (and kind of expecting) to hear; his Nets squads did win with defense, and the Mavericks while he was there under Carlisle also played some pretty solid defense as well.

and I really hope that he can help Lopez with becoming a better rim protector. Otherwise, the same thing will happen next year unless there's a major upgrade defensively at the 4 spot.

That said, they were pretty mediocre across a lot of factors. 20th in opponent eFG% (somewhat aided by that weak defense against points in the paint) and 24th in turnovers didn't help.

The Heat are an example of a team that leverages forced turnovers to help their defense. The Nets need to improve on the defensive glass a little and at generating turnovers a lot; if they can combine those two things, they can improve defensively while enabling transition offense. Turnovers will typically be created by guards, though, so we'll see what that means from Deron, how Kidd approaches putting more defensive accountability on his star PG.

[tsherkin]

Agreed. Good thing is, the Nets should get a bit younger this off-season with a few draft picks and Euro stashes coming over.

That should be good as well. Euro guys will probably help them on offense. Bigs, any of them?

He said "He will be expressing the importance of doing the little things. But championship teams are built on playing hard, playing defense and being accountable."

Yeah, NyCeEvo mentioned, that's good to hear and expected.

Nothing else in terms of schemes but Deron alluded to learning how to read certain passing lanes. So, I'm guessing a Memphis Grizzlies style defense?

Doubt it, BroPez is too much worse than Gasol on defense for that to happen, I think. But Kidd himself was always good at forcing guard turnovers with pressure on the ball-handler and in the passing lanes, and that could potentially help a lot as long as the Nets rotate behind him intelligently to account for the need to gamble in order to get steals.