Wall vs. Kyrie for the last pg spot according to USA Today

[kevindurant1]

Kyrie has way more potential than Wall.

They are both very talented and have alot of potential. How did you measure which one has more?.

Kyrie is injury prone.

[Sluggerface]

Wow. So defensive over John Wall. To think, Wall just made his first ASG this year while Irving has been in 2, started one, and won AS MVP, all in one less year than Wall has been in the league. Kyrie has way more potential than Wall.

Lol @ Kyrie having any kind of high potential when he's not even better than Lillard.

Yes, I mean obviously he is a bum with zero potential. Odd he is even in the NBA altogether, maybe he can be sent down to the d-league where he belongs.

He's' been in the league 3 years. A Coach K product. Team USA product, and he's still lightyears behind everybody else in basic ****. Is he a better shooter than lillard? No. Is he a better pick and roll player than Lillard? **** no. Does he have better vision than Wall? Nope. Defense? lol. He has a good handle and a good shot. That's it. What incentive do I have to take him over someone like Isaiah Thomas who's making half the money? There's none.

Thinking that Kyrie has more potential than someone like Wall is just asinine.

[BayInferno]

I can't believe how many people think Lillard is better than Kyrie and will make Team USA over Kyrie....that's just LOL

What does Kyrie do better?

[eltercero]

There is not a single GM in the league besides maybe Portland that would take Lillard over Kyrie. Believe it or not while Kyrie is a bad defender, Lillard is even worse. Kyrie has better career averages than Lillard per 36 in every single statistical category. He beats him in points per 36, rebounds, assists, FG%, FT%, blocks, steals... Lillard only had an edge on him in 3P% and only by .03!! And let's not forgot those career averages include Kyrie's down year last year (Bynum, Brown were factors). Imagine if Kyrie had Aldridge. His stats would be even better. And let's also not forgot that Kyrie is still 2 years younger than Lillard.

[eltercero]

I can't believe how many people think Lillard is better than Kyrie and will make Team USA over Kyrie....that's just LOL

What does Kyrie do better?

Statistically, Kyrie is better at pretty much everything all while being 2 years younger. Look below you champ.

[Beffiosa]

I can't believe how many people think Lillard is better than Kyrie and will make Team USA over Kyrie....that's just LOL

What does Kyrie do better?

Better mid-range shooter
Better at finishing around the basket
Better at breaking down defenses

Kyrie is just a much better offensive player. If you force Lillard to take any shot inside that is not a layup (he's not even good at that) he'll struggle. Kyrie is just more dynamic and confident on the offensive end and he rarely turn the ball over.

[JG024]

I can't believe how many people think Lillard is better than Kyrie and will make Team USA over Kyrie....that's just LOL

What does Kyrie do better?

Statistically, Kyrie is better at pretty much everything all while being 2 years younger. Look below you champ.

Getting buckets, beating defenders off the dribble, and selling Nike.

[whocurrz]

They are both very talented and have alot of potential. How did you measure which one has more?.

Kyrie is injury prone.

Lots of people measure potential as size and athleticism in which case Wall has much higher potential than Kyrie and arguably any PG in the NBA. Wall is 6'4 with a wingspan over 6'9 and a max very of 39" and very good quickness. Combined good ball handling and vision when he was 19 in the draft. I think Wall was one of the higher potential players to enter the league in the last 5 years. Many people believe shooting can be improved with coaching and Wall has improved in this regard already.

I personally believe he's still one of the highest potential players in the NBA given that his biggest needs are Improving his shot and IQ/ decision making which are definitely possible given his already improved shot and more experience are his biggest needs. Defensively he can improve his offball defense and gamble less but these are also things that should improve with coaching and experience.

[franktony]

I'd go with Irving. Shooting is more important than athleticism in FIBA games.

[noobcake]

They are both very talented and have alot of potential. How did you measure which one has more?.

Kyrie is injury prone.

Lots of people measure potential as size and athleticism in which case Wall has much higher potential than Kyrie and arguably any PG in the NBA. Wall is 6'4 with a wingspan over 6'9 and a max very of 39" and very good quickness. Combined good ball handling and vision when he was 19 in the draft. I think Wall was one of the higher potential players to enter the league in the last 5 years. Many people believe shooting can be improved with coaching and Wall has improved in this regard already.

I personally believe he's still one of the highest potential players in the NBA given that his biggest needs are Improving his shot and IQ/ decision making which are definitely possible given his already improved shot and more experience are his biggest needs. Defensively he can improve his offball defense and gamble less but these are also things that should improve with coaching and experience.

You are just one of those people who do not see the big picture and only knows how to associate potential with athleticism, which is perhaps the most misguided idea in modern professional basketball.

[nuposse04]

Not garbage. I can't speak for why Wall maintained the same assists averages when playing with superior teammates but Irving has shown (albeit in the All Star Game) the ability to be a great passer when surrounded by good teammates (and those All Star teammates include some of the possible players on Team USA).

LOL the allstar game.

Ok dude. Let's play. You show me Irving's 14ast playing with established NBA allstars and I'll raise you Wall's 22 asts playing with Rookies!

GTFO with that mess.

Wow. So defensive over John Wall. To think, Wall just made his first ASG this year while Irving has been in 2, started one, and won AS MVP, all in one less year than Wall has been in the league. Kyrie has way more potential than Wall.

ASG's aren't always indicative of who is the BEST player at that position. Neither Wall nor Kyrie should have been allowed to play over Lowry this season who was phenomenal. Also, AS MVPs might be the most worthless awards ever, just like Wall's dunk competition trophy, neither has practical value at all.

Big talk for a guy that JUST made the playoffs for the first time in 4 years. It's like you forgot that Wall has been in the league one more year than Kyrie. And don't make fun of our picks. One of your picks isn't in the NBA anymore. Otto "NBA Ready" Porter sucks. And you guys traded away a pick that could've been used to draft Steph Curry.

This is completely nonsensical. Trends matter, and unfortunately we can't examine both players in a vacuum. Wall did play with some more competent players, but don't forget their wretched record without them in the '12-'13 season. Wall wasn't some phenom, but he paced the wiz at a near .500 record when he came back (and they still tanked a few games down the stretch). He didn't make the playoffs, of course but that was due to only significant injury Wall has had in his career. Kyrie played 71 games, which is a pretty good amount, yet in a historically bad east, he still wasn't able to carry his team. What would have been impressive is if CLE came close to .500 record in the games he played (I'm not aware of the numbers regarding that record, I'd actually be interested to know). But the Cavs will most surely make the playoffs next season, but this is mostly because of LBJ, any laymen can see that.

Teams dare Wall to shoot open jumpers while Kyrie draws the team's best perimeter defender to guard him at any spot until 27 feet out. Pay no attention to the percentages.

That isn't Wall's fault he is optimizing open looks. He is doing what a good player should do, take advantage of situations. Wall is also a better finisher at the rim so teams aren't willing to concede the drive to him, players will let Irving drive on them since he doesn't have the physicality to make them pay.

[whocurrz]

They are both very talented and have alot of potential. How did you measure which one has more?.

Kyrie is injury prone.

Lots of people measure potential as size and athleticism in which case Wall has much higher potential than Kyrie and arguably any PG in the NBA. Wall is 6'4 with a wingspan over 6'9 and a max very of 39" and very good quickness. Combined good ball handling and vision when he was 19 in the draft. I think Wall was one of the higher potential players to enter the league in the last 5 years. Many people believe shooting can be improved with coaching and Wall has improved in this regard already.

I personally believe he's still one of the highest potential players in the NBA given that his biggest needs are Improving his shot and IQ/ decision making which are definitely possible given his already improved shot and more experience are his biggest needs. Defensively he can improve his offball defense and gamble less but these are also things that should improve with coaching and experience.

You are just one of those people who do not see the big picture and only knows how to associate potential with athleticism, which is perhaps the most misguided idea in modern professional basketball.

Actually I started my post by saying lots of people measure potential that way. If I only measured it that way then there's a lot of players who have had and still have more potential than Wall. I quite clearly stated that he had legitimate PG skills for a 19 year old coming into the league and also I forgot to state it he's also had a PG mentality. He still has high potential because he still has great size and athleticism along to go with an improving skillset that already had a solid base. Way to assume you can pinpoint how I evaluate players as a whole though.

[a_sensei]

I can't believe how many people think Lillard is better than Kyrie and will make Team USA over Kyrie....that's just LOL

What does Kyrie do better?

Statistically, Kyrie is better at pretty much everything all while being 2 years younger. Look below you champ.

Not sure about that. Last year Lillard was a much more efficient player. They produced vertially the same scoring average with Irving taking 1.5 more shots per game. Irving may be 2 years younger, but Lillard is an extremely hard worker and has made marked improvement each year (in college and in the pros). Irving has not shown much improvement year to year and seemed to regress last year. Irving obviously has the superior athletic ability. There's a reason that he was one and done at Duke and the number one pick. Lillard was no where near the NBA radar after his Freshman year. The ability to refine and improve ones game is what makes a young NBA star have staying power. If you compared Stephon Marbury and Chauncey Billups early in their careers everyone would say that Marbury was the guy with the superstar potential. Billups is the guy the improved every year and he had a much better career.

[stevemcqueen1]

I'd take Lillard over Kyrie if I were the GM. Lillard is an equivalent shooter and off the dribble scorer and he doesn't miss games. He led the league in minutes as a rookie. Kyrie misses an average of 16 games a season and Lillard has already played 500 more minutes in two seasons than Kyrie has played in three .

If last year was a down year for Irving, what's an up year? He missed fewer games and played more minutes than he ever has before. A good year is what, his rookie year? Because he's gotten worse each season he's been in the league.

As for the comparison to Wall, now that he didn't really out shoot Wall from long range, what is there to compare? He shot better from 3-10 feet! Passing? Wall led the league in assists last season and has finished 7th, 7th, 4th, and 2nd in APG each year of his career. Kyrie finished 16th last season and it was his best season passing. Defense? . Leadership and making everyone around him better? Yeah this Wizards team that's so much better went 5-28 last season when Wall was out. John got the likes of Trevor Ariza and Marcin Gortat paid this summer. He got Randy Wittman and Ernie Grunfeld extensions. What has Kyrie done? Feuded with Dion Waiters, sulked and threatened to leave after his rookie deal, is on his third head coach and second GM, and led a team that's ended up with two other #1 overall draft picks since they picked him. That guy was becoming the second incarnation of Starbury before LeBron decided to come to town and (probably) save his career from the toilet.

[Sluggerface]

There is not a single GM in the league besides maybe Portland that would take Lillard over Kyrie. Believe it or not while Kyrie is a bad defender, Lillard is even worse. Kyrie has better career averages than Lillard per 36 in every single statistical category. He beats him in points per 36, rebounds, assists, FG%, FT%, blocks, steals... Lillard only had an edge on him in 3P% and only by .03!! And let's not forgot those career averages include Kyrie's down year last year (Bynum, Brown were factors). Imagine if Kyrie had Aldridge. His stats would be even better. And let's also not forgot that Kyrie is still 2 years younger than Lillard.

Lillard isn't a worse defender than Irving. You're just pulling **** out of your ass to make a point. It's easy to get on Lillards defense because he's small, but his understanding of basic defensive fundamentals are a lot better than Irving's, and please don't bring up Tony Parker, because realistically Tony Parker would have done that to anyone in the playoffs. Lillard isn't any worse than the other 100 guards that are sieves in the league, and that includes Irving.

The fact of the matter is when it comes to things like getting teammates into sets, executing an offense, running pick and roll, you know, the **** that actually wins basketball games, Lillard is much more developed than Irving in almost every aspect, and he was a crucial reason why Portland had the best offense in the NBA last season. His IQ is lightyears better than Irving, and that's not to say that Kyrie is a dumb player. Lillard just has a better feel for the game.

[JG024]

It's going to be great around December and January when everyone is jerking off about how great Kyrie is now that he has legit teammates and a coach.

[Chuck Everett]

Kyrie couldn't even get it done in the watered down East. Now he's better than Lillard. Man, this site. Blinded by commercials and hype. FOH.

[BayInferno]

I can't believe how many people think Lillard is better than Kyrie and will make Team USA over Kyrie....that's just LOL

What does Kyrie do better?

Statistically, Kyrie is better at pretty much everything all while being 2 years younger. Look below you champ.

Lillard has more WS, WS/48, and efficiency (TS%) overall, but Kyrie has a little better raw stats and thus higher PER because he takes 2 more shots per game to score the same amount and also has a higher usage %. How is Kyrie better in everything? Wow, Kyrie either gets criminally underrated or massively overrated.

I can't believe how many people think Lillard is better than Kyrie and will make Team USA over Kyrie....that's just LOL

What does Kyrie do better?

Better mid-range shooter
Better at finishing around the basket
Better at breaking down defenses

Kyrie is just a much better offensive player. If you force Lillard to take any shot inside that is not a layup (he's not even good at that) he'll struggle. Kyrie is just more dynamic and confident on the offensive end and he rarely turn the ball over.

Kyrie shot better at the rim and up to 16 feet, and Lillard shot better from 16 feet and beyond. And he also averaged more turnovers than Lillard, and barely more assists than Lillard who played next to Mo Williams and Nicolas Batum. Lillard's also a better defender.

[a_sensei]

It's going to be great around December and January when everyone is jerking off about how great Kyrie is now that he has legit teammates and a coach.

Yep, because guys have never thrived with Byron Scott or Mike Brown and no supporting cast.

Spoiler:

[BayInferno]

Lillard also outperforms Kyrie head to head, for what it's worth.

Lillard: 25.7 pts / 5.0 rebounds / 7.3 assists / 1.0 steal / 1.7 turnovers on 46/52/78 shooting, 17.3 FGA
Kyrie: 25.7 pts / 2.7 rebounds / 6.3 assists / 2.0 steals / 1.7 turnovers on 44/28/100 shooting, 22.0 FGA