Woj: Kanter signing an offer sheet w/Portland

[Agenda42]

so when is the deadline for okc to match or not? tomorrow?

They get 72 hours after the offer sheet is approved by the league office.

I haven't heard exactly when that happened, but it was sometime on the 9th. That means we'll hear from OKC on the 12th.

[Effigy]

I "defend" it lightly, I'm not saying they won the trade or anything, just that it happened, its over, and they came out pretty well. They ultimately improved the roster in the end IMO, and it certainly won't be the bold unless Harden wins a bunch of rings and MVP trophys.

They most certainly have not improved their roster. I would take the Finals team over any team OKC has rolled out since. Basically all the improvement they have made between then and now has been in the form of Russ, KD and to a much lesser extent Ibaka developing as players, but those guys were already on the roster then, so they don't count as 'improvements'.

[bondom34]

I "defend" it lightly, I'm not saying they won the trade or anything, just that it happened, its over, and they came out pretty well. They ultimately improved the roster in the end IMO, and it certainly won't be the bold unless Harden wins a bunch of rings and MVP trophys.

They most certainly have not improved their roster. I would take the Finals team over any team OKC has rolled out since. Basically all the improvement they have made between then and now has been in the form of Russ, KD and to a much lesser extent Ibaka developing as players, but those guys were already on the roster then, so they don't count as 'improvements'.

I'd disagree, Adams, McGary are an upgrade. Thabo was also not good inthe end.

[NBAfan3024]

Surprised they havnt matched it yet

[gustofwind]

I "defend" it lightly, I'm not saying they won the trade or anything, just that it happened, its over, and they came out pretty well. They ultimately improved the roster in the end IMO, and it certainly won't be the bold unless Harden wins a bunch of rings and MVP trophys.

They most certainly have not improved their roster. I would take the Finals team over any team OKC has rolled out since. Basically all the improvement they have made between then and now has been in the form of Russ, KD and to a much lesser extent Ibaka developing as players, but those guys were already on the roster then, so they don't count as 'improvements'.

I'd disagree, Adams, McGary are an upgrade. Thabo was also not good inthe end.

Also, not enough people seem to remember that in that Harden trade OKC got a very good sixth man replacement in Kevin Martin. In fact, at the time of the trade, Martin was a more accomplished (albeit less talented) player. Problem is, Martin did not want to be a sixth man and they couldn't keep him. It seems it must be hard to find very good scorers who are willing to be a sixth man for 4-5 years. OKC can't seem to get around this problem because Reggie Jackson was unhappy with the same role and they had to let him go too. It amazes me there aren't more guys who are willing to leave their ego at the door to be a sixth man of a championship team. Hard to blame OKC for that though.

[whatchaknow]

Surprised they havnt matched it yet

Im not really. Id expect them to take up to the last minute and then match

Makes sense to keep Portlands money tied up as long as possible even if there isn't much else out there on the market

[Ponchos]

They most certainly have not improved their roster. I would take the Finals team over any team OKC has rolled out since. Basically all the improvement they have made between then and now has been in the form of Russ, KD and to a much lesser extent Ibaka developing as players, but those guys were already on the roster then, so they don't count as 'improvements'.

I'd disagree, Adams, McGary are an upgrade. Thabo was also not good inthe end.

Also, not enough people seem to remember that in that Harden trade OKC got a very good sixth man replacement in Kevin Martin. In fact, at the time of the trade, Martin was a more accomplished (albeit less talented) player. Problem is, Martin did not want to be a sixth man and they couldn't keep him. It seems it must be hard to find very good scorers who are willing to be a sixth man for 4-5 years. OKC can't seem to get around this problem because Reggie Jackson was unhappy with the same role and they had to let him go too. It amazes me there aren't more guys who are willing to leave their ego at the door to be a sixth man of a championship team. Hard to blame OKC for that though.

It isn't ego that makes players reluctant to come off the bench, it's the fact that bench players make tens of millions of dollars less over their careers.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Sorry, and i know its been discussed in some detail, but all i can think about this is OKC may be giving that harden money to Enes freaking Kanter. It just bottles mah mind.

[gustofwind]

I'd disagree, Adams, McGary are an upgrade. Thabo was also not good inthe end.

Also, not enough people seem to remember that in that Harden trade OKC got a very good sixth man replacement in Kevin Martin. In fact, at the time of the trade, Martin was a more accomplished (albeit less talented) player. Problem is, Martin did not want to be a sixth man and they couldn't keep him. It seems it must be hard to find very good scorers who are willing to be a sixth man for 4-5 years. OKC can't seem to get around this problem because Reggie Jackson was unhappy with the same role and they had to let him go too. It amazes me there aren't more guys who are willing to leave their ego at the door to be a sixth man of a championship team. Hard to blame OKC for that though.

It isn't ego that makes players reluctant to come off the bench, it's the fact that bench players make tens of millions of dollars less over their careers.

That's a good point. But, in fairness, in that sentence you referred to I'm talking exclusively about championship contenders or elite teams where the sixth man sacrificing a bit of dough would also gain something. Also one could say it is money and ego, not just money that keeps players from helping a contender as a bench player. Or, if you prefer we can switch ego for "sense of self worth," or some other neutral term.

Anyway, what is the solution? Does every championship contending FO seeking a good bench piece have to pay through the nose to keep their sixth men (e.g. Cleveland w/Thompson)? Or do they have to hope they find that one self-sacrificing guy? Or do they find the absolute perfect balance of role players that don't need crazy contracts?

Managing a reasonable salary and keeping a championship caliber team together is a very tough balancing act. People who are blaming OKC are missing the point in that regard. If anything, OKC is the victim of its own great drafting and/or tanking those three years with Durant/Westbrook/Ibaka/Harden. Keeping a star based team is extremely expensive.

[phraoh]

[quote="StocktonShorts"][quote="jazzfan1980"][quote="kd 35"][quote="Nolan"]I don't hate Kanter as much as most people around here do but why is Portland interested in him? Their front court is already pretty crowded.[/quote]

It sounds like a power move from Portland.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/619225276602560512[/tweet][/quote]


Typical Portland always finding a way to screw over a division rival in the offseason by offering a toxic contract knowing the player will be resigned by their own team.[/quote]

That contract they offered Wes Matthews was so toxic the Jazz couldn't match it. They sure dodged a bullet on that one!

/greenestfont[/quote]

No one is going to take the 3 stiffs mentioned unless OKC wants to throw in 2 # 1's...have to include Morrow/McGary with a Novak to not include any picks.

[Time for Change]

I'm surprised so many think that matching would help keep Durant. If anything I'd think it would have the opposite effect. It must be incredibly frustrating to play hard on defense only to see the opposing team get easy buckets because of low effort and defensive gaffs by a teammate. Then to realize that teammate is locked up long term and is going to play heavy minutes (teams don't bench max players), that would make me want to look for a different team.

[bwgood77]

It's really too bad OKC's doctor advised them to rescind the trade for Tyson Chandler back in the day. He probably could have been the difference and they probably are not where they are with Kanter right now. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3917505

[CBA]

You've lost all perspective when you're attempting to use the Lee trade to defend the Harden trade.

"Broke up the team"...

[b33nine]

Surprised they havnt matched it yet

Im not really. Id expect them to take up to the last minute and then match

Makes sense to keep Portlands money tied up as long as possible even if there isn't much else out there on the market

Except Portland has 13 million in space beyond what they offered Kanter and there aren't any viable FA's left on the market. Only benefit they get from waiting now is time to weigh their options.

[bondom34]

Oh the comparison wasn't a direct thing and I said as much. If you want to troll on that fine, have fun.

[b33nine]

Oh the comparison wasn't a direct thing and I said as much. If you want to troll on that fine, have fun.

huh? I'm not trolling... just pointing out that tying up our cap space is likely not what they're concerned with because it's essentially a worthless asset currently.

Trolling aint my style man, I'm just here cause I like basketball and my blazers.

[bondom34]

Oh the comparison wasn't a direct thing and I said as much. If you want to troll on that fine, have fun.

huh? I'm not trolling... just pointing out that tying up our cap space is likely not what they're concerned with because it's essentially a worthless asset currently.

Trolling aint my style man, I'm just here cause I like basketball and my blazers.

Oh, sorry that was directed at the post above yours, not you. I've dealt with that particular poster before...

Honestly I like the Blazers too and I'm torn on this one because on one hand, I don't think Kanter's worth near this money and is best suited to be a bench big. On the other hand, hate to see talent walk and hate the "cheap" narrative. But for OKC, having a guy who plays no defense and who's going to suddenly become the 3rd/4th option offensively doesn't excite me.

Sorry about the mix up!

[Norm2953]

Surprised they havnt matched it yet

Im not really. Id expect them to take up to the last minute and then match

Makes sense to keep Portlands money tied up as long as possible even if there isn't much else out there on the market

Portland is $20 Million under the cap floor and has the most cap space in the league. OKC might as well
match right now for if they cared to, Portland still has cap space to make any moves should they care to.

[TaylorMonkey]

Again, comparing something at all to 10 million in dead weight.

Still doesn't make it rational because the circumstances are completely different.

Sorta, but the comparison wasn't really meant to be exact. Was just saying if you're bashing one, bash em both. Harden would have put OKC in the tax anyway, and they let him go for other reasons IMO, he wanted out. That's all I'm sayin.

They're not just not exact. The situations are almost completely opposite in trading what turned out to be an MVP candidate who was a top 3 player on a finals team that fell short vs a 10th rotation player that didn't play half of playoffs and only in spot bench minutes AFTER the team won a ring so he might reestablish himself in a contract year.

You cannot possibly be suggesting that we should bash both deals similarly if we want to criticize the Harden trade and that they are remotely comparable, or that OKC was trying to do Harden a favor for giving him his own team the way GSW did to a Lee who was getting DNPs.

Bondom, gotta say this feels like a lot of unnecessary reaching to defend what was a bad initial take here (about GSW breaking up their team because of Lee). You're framing the Lee trade as worse than it is in phrasing none can agree with here-- which can't help but call attention to the Harden trade when OKC is involved. So it's not a matter of having to bash both-- it's a matter of needing to evicerate the Harden trade to be fair IF one would be unduly critical of the Lee trade which it doesn't remotely deserve (which for the record I don't particularly like). The more the two trades are unreasonably equivocated in any way, the more the Harden will draw attention again.

Anyway as far as the subject goes, OKC is justified if they choose to let Kanter go. But they would be losing assets when they need to make a show and a push this season.

[bondom34]

Still doesn't make it rational because the circumstances are completely different.

Sorta, but the comparison wasn't really meant to be exact. Was just saying if you're bashing one, bash em both. Harden would have put OKC in the tax anyway, and they let him go for other reasons IMO, he wanted out. That's all I'm sayin.

They're not just not exact. The situations are almost completely opposite in trading what turned out to be an MVP candidate who was a top 3 player on a finals team that fell short vs a 10th rotation player that didn't play half of playoffs and only in spot bench minutes AFTER the team won a ring so he might reestablish himself in a contract year.

You cannot possibly be suggesting that we should bash both deals similarly if we want to criticize the Harden trade and that they are remotely comparable, or that OKC was trying to do Harden a favor for giving him his own team the way GSW did to a Lee who was getting DNPs.

Bondom, gotta say this feels like a lot of unnecessary reaching to defend what was a bad initial take here (about GSW breaking up their team because of Lee). You're framing the Lee trade as worse than it is in phrasing none can agree with here-- which can't help but call attention to the Harden trade when OKC is involved. So it's not a matter of having to bash both-- it's a matter of needing to evicerate the Harden trade to be fair IF one would be unduly critical of the Lee trade which it doesn't remotely deserve (which for the record I don't particularly like). The more the two trades are unreasonably equivocated in any way, the more the Harden will draw attention again.

Anyway as far as the subject goes, OKC is justified if they choose to let Kanter go. But they would be losing assets when they need to make a show and a push this season.

I don't believe GSW was doing Lee any favors to be honest, I think they were doing it for money, which was the point, I was saying it was done because of money which is what many believe about the Thunder. And I really hope OKC doesn't match this offer, despite the fact that people will just scream "cheap" because they wouldn't give an absurd contract to a guy in Kanter who's been his entire career a net negative player.