Who are the good 1 on 1 Defenders MJ faced?

[Jables]

This topic is full of guys that never watched 80's or 90's basketball in their life, but are happy to laugh at names they've never seen before.

[mysticOscar]

Fans 20-30 years from now wil notl even know Kriss Middleton, Pat Beverly, Marcus Smart etc... these will just be some names that means nothing to them. Even Butler.and Paul George level players won't be as known or revered as much....I mean only really the top 8-10 from each era will sort of carry across to future generations.

Threads like thse is how u can really tell who are the new fans that skim through some low level stats from previous eras and make judgment without knowing the players

[OfficialRef]

Jordan fans more insecure than their idol after watching the 2016 finals. Man had to resort to dropping a documentary filled with pitiful propaganda to save face around fans.

Say what you want about Lebron, but Jordans initial thoughts after seeing Lebron win was having to throw out this wreck of a series to boost his legacy. Pathetic.

[Pennebaker]

Craig Ehlo
Kevin Johnson
Danny Ainge
Hersey Hawkins
Byron Russell
Jeff Hornacek


Seriously though:

Little Joe Dumars
Skinny Michael Cooper
Little Gary Payton

MJ has never faced the kind of defenders that exist today, who are as athletic as him, but bigger and stronger.

LeBorn faced that defensive specialist named JJ Barea, all 5'10" of him.

You may have had a point if LeBron only faced Barea in isolation - like MJ had with tiny Kevin Johnson.

But the Mavs also had Shawn Marion, Tyson Chandler and a zone, which they loved using that year. Kidd was also a savvy defender and whip smart. Dirk was also 7 feet tall so that didnt help either when you're talking about "to 2.9" defense - packing the paint.

When it happened, Barea was just at the top of the zone, with two 7 footers and some great defenders overloading behind him - the only way you can get away with that.

That's a much different look than what MJ had against KJ or Ainge or Hersey Hawkins - iso and open lanes on both sides.

Zone was outlawed in Jordan's league and the rules mandated freedom of movement. Today teams have to try to create their own freedom of movement through shooting threats, with zones no longer being outlawed.

[camby23]

MJ's competition getting exposed. The defense in the 80s was straight up garbage. No one was contesting MJ at the basket.

Watch on YouTube

Why do people always post videos that show how insanely quick MJ was and then claim that it shows bad defense?

Like I really don't get it. These videos just make MJ look better.

What's crazy is there are videos of 40 year old MJ, strippled of all his athleticism, still having random 30-40 point outbursts against modern defenders. At 39, he had back to back games of 45 and 51.

We're in a world where Bradley Beal is averaging 30ppg on 57% TS. MJ is bigger and faster than Beal, and the best midrange shooter ever. We really think MJ isn't eating up these modern defenses?

Saying that Jordan would be still amazing player in today's league is a one thing, and saying that he would average 50 ppg or that 1996 Bulls would sweep 2018 Warriors or that modern superstars would be crushed by 90's defenses (and DOZENS of this type of crap) is a another thing.

[bdp31770]

Dan Majerle was also a big, tough defender.

EDIT: just saw he's in your list.

Majerle was not a good defender. His lack of athleticism was exposed when he faced off vs MJ.

Majerle was second team all defense in 90-91.

[dabonett]

Espn and media need to pump the product they are selling NOW. It’s only narrative and storytelling. Once some of the top 5 today retire, the will fall in the ladder. Kaj, Magic, Bird Td and MJ are obviously top 5. Top players now are in the 10-25 spots. International fiba clearly shows it

[LKN]

Why do people always post videos that show how insanely quick MJ was and then claim that it shows bad defense?

Like I really don't get it. These videos just make MJ look better.

What's crazy is there are videos of 40 year old MJ, strippled of all his athleticism, still having random 30-40 point outbursts against modern defenders. At 39, he had back to back games of 45 and 51.

We're in a world where Bradley Beal is averaging 30ppg on 57% TS. MJ is bigger and faster than Beal, and the best midrange shooter ever. We really think MJ isn't eating up these modern defenses?

Saying that Jordan would be still amazing player in today's league is a one thing, and saying that he would average 50 ppg or that 1996 Bulls would sweep 2018 Warriors or that modern superstars would be crushed by 90's defenses (and DOZENS of this type of crap) is a another thing.

Completely agree! Cheers to that.

[KGtabake]

The meltdown continues

If the league doesn't restart soon, some people are going to need serious psychologist backup.

[Hal14]

Didn't read through the whole 12 pages, but these are a few who aren't on the list in the original post:

Rodman - guarded him at times when he was in Detroit
Sidney Moncrief
Michael Cooper

That's 3 of the best defenders ever.

Others:
Drexler - good, not great defender
Reggie Lewis - good defender, long and athletic, 6'7"
Aaron McKie and George Lynch - both good defenders who went against Jordan during the second 3-peat
Gerald Wilkins at 6'6" was also a good defender but as you can see in this video MJ schooled him pretty good:

Watch on YouTube

[76ciology]

Didn't read through the whole 12 pages, but these are a few who aren't on the list in the original post:

Rodman - guarded him at times when he was in Detroit
Sidney Moncrief
Michael Cooper

That's 3 of the best defenders ever.

Others:
Drexler - good, not great defender
Reggie Lewis - good defender, long and athletic, 6'7"
Aaron McKie and George Lynch - both good defenders who went against Jordan during the second 3-peat
Gerald Wilkins at 6'6" was also a good defender but as you can see in this video MJ schooled him pretty good:

Watch on YouTube

Because he was really no good. Look at his numbers

[soxfan2003]

MJ's competition getting exposed. The defense in the 80s was straight up garbage. No one was contesting MJ at the basket.

Watch on YouTube

I love these videos. Imagine if we had to listen to these Jordan-bible-pushers about the history of the game.

If you never saw these games, you’d think dudes were out there getting beaten & tackled.

What have we here. Yet another GOAT of the GM board. I’m in awe of your presence, with the and1 to post ratios, tell me WIZARD, bless me with your knowledge.

Question... why is it that MJ head to head against 2 x DPOY Moncrief, had a career stat line of...
31.6 pts, 6.2rpg, 5.9apg, 2.3spg, 1.3bpg on .527fg%, over “ not1, not2, not3, not4, etc, but over 22

Tell us, all knowing, how did this happen? Again that is 2x DPOY. Bless us with your wisdom!
Edit, let’s not only ask you, but let’s also invite other GM greats, such as big bird, pen maker, triple fail, and the rest of the LeFail wizards to reply. Bless us with your wisdom, Mt Rushmore greats. We are here to learn from your legendary wisdom.

Moncrief got injured early in his career and was never the same. Healthy Jordan really only played one season against healthy Moncrief.

They faced in the playoffs when Jordan was a rookie. Milwaukee more talented team for sure. But Jordan was contained reasonably well. Still had 29 PPG but only on 44% FG%. His lowest playoff PER of his NBA career I believe was against Moncrief/Milwaukee.

Moncrief after his health deteriorated was a shell of his former self. Healthy Jordan really only played healthy Moncrief for one full season. The guy had major injuries/declining health perhaps a little like a Bill Walton.

[soxfan2003]

Dennis Johnson was an excellent defender for sure but at least by 85-86 and after that, DJ was a bad matchup for covering Jordan since he just wasn't quick enough. DJ was 3-4 months from his 32nd birthday when he first faced MJ in the playoffs... I suspect Seattle DJ does much better on defense 1 on 1 vs MJ. Celtics did slow Jordan down more in 86-87 playoffs when they knew what they were up against and probably prepared better than 85-86. DJ was really brought in to defend Magic Johnson and perhaps Andrew Toney/Moncrief and not Michael Jordan.

In the 80's when Jordan had his peak athleticism the wings in the NBA were not as good defensively as some later years. A big reason for this is teams still prioritized skill on offense and the league hadn't become more of a 3 and D league at the wing positions. Granted Detroit was very good to loaded but even Dennis Rodman in his athletic prime was often coming off the bench in Detroit with the Pistons favoring more offense in their starting unit. The late 80's/90's expansion convinced teams that they could win with 2 instead of 3 stars and more 3 and D players. So, defenses did get better but in a sense star players on offense on many teams were working with more limited players on that end of court.

In addition, the "Jordan era" had some really good centers that could play defense.

Chicago was close to impossible to beat in the 90's thanks to expansion and that 2nd great team not really consistently being there. And it had to help Jordan that a player like Pippen was on his team rather than an opposing team.

Imagine if Hakeem or Robinson had Pippen and a few good role players.

[durden_tyler]

We all know that MJ was a spectacular offensive player. Looking back at his Last Dance highlights I noticed something that no one else caught on to. The disturbing lack of good defensive players that MJ went against that were his size. It seemed like every perimeter player on the MJ highlight videos were 3 inches shorter and 30 lbs lighter than MJ. Where are the size appropriate defensive wizards he faced off against like a Kawhi, Artest, Draymond, George, Allen, Marion, etc. I went back to see the guys MJ played against and they were all undersized.

Dennis Johnson: 6' 4, 185 lbs
Craig Ehlo: 6' 6, 190 lbs
Dumars: 6' 3, 190 lbs
Byron Scott: 6' 3, 195 lbs
Starks: 6' 3, 180 lbs
Majerle: 6' 6, 215 lbs
Kevin Johnson: 6' 1, 180 lbs
Hawkins: 6' 3, 190 lbs
Gary Payton: 6-4, 180 lbs
Hornacek: 6' 3, 190 lbs

I don't see many good defensive players on this list. It's not a coincidence that MJ had his biggest struggles when he faced the only 2 good defensive players on this list (Dumars and Payton). If you pay attention you will notice how undersized all of these defenders were in comparison to MJ. He never faced off vs a 6' 7, 230 lbs wing like Kawhi who could get physical with him.

This list would be top defenders in this era.

[durden_tyler]

Jordan fans more insecure than their idol after watching the 2016 finals. Man had to resort to dropping a documentary filled with pitiful propaganda to save face around fans.

Say what you want about Lebron, but Jordans initial thoughts after seeing Lebron win was having to throw out this wreck of a series to boost his legacy. Pathetic.

It's more to remind the insecure LeBron fans

[unicron5]

Going bigger/stronger on Jordan was tried:

Dennis Rodman



Steve Smith



Anthony Mason



Gerald Wilkins



Mitch Richmond






Etc. etc. etc.

Long story short ... it didn't work. If anything I think shorter/faster players bothered Jordan more. Taller/strength based guys he would just simply explode past and get to the rim or to an easy pull up J.

[Pennebaker]

We all know that MJ was a spectacular offensive player. Looking back at his Last Dance highlights I noticed something that no one else caught on to. The disturbing lack of good defensive players that MJ went against that were his size. It seemed like every perimeter player on the MJ highlight videos were 3 inches shorter and 30 lbs lighter than MJ. Where are the size appropriate defensive wizards he faced off against like a Kawhi, Artest, Draymond, George, Allen, Marion, etc. I went back to see the guys MJ played against and they were all undersized.

Dennis Johnson: 6' 4, 185 lbs
Craig Ehlo: 6' 6, 190 lbs
Dumars: 6' 3, 190 lbs
Byron Scott: 6' 3, 195 lbs
Starks: 6' 3, 180 lbs
Majerle: 6' 6, 215 lbs
Kevin Johnson: 6' 1, 180 lbs
Hawkins: 6' 3, 190 lbs
Gary Payton: 6-4, 180 lbs
Hornacek: 6' 3, 190 lbs

I don't see many good defensive players on this list. It's not a coincidence that MJ had his biggest struggles when he faced the only 2 good defensive players on this list (Dumars and Payton). If you pay attention you will notice how undersized all of these defenders were in comparison to MJ. He never faced off vs a 6' 7, 230 lbs wing like Kawhi who could get physical with him.

As far as I know, Joe Dumars is the only answer Jordan has ever given about who defends him the best.

But don't forget that Dennis Rodman also defended Jordan a bit when he was a Piston.

But it was usually just Dumars.

According to MJ, Dumars was the only guy that would check him for an entire game. And he would make MJ work on the other end too, sometimes outplaying Jordan on both ends (e.g. games 1 and 2 of the 1990 ECF).

Dumars was the only Piston Jordan respected.

But Dumars was a small guy and limited athletically.

No, MJ never faced a Kawhi or even an Iggy.

MJ never faced any defender that was also an elite athlete.

Imagine what people are going to think when Bron wins Finals MVP while being defended by Giannis (or even vice versa).

Perimeter players with the size and capability of LeBron and Giannis were science fiction in Jordan's era.

Or biblical. Nephilim. Giants. The sons of God.

[twyzted]

We all know that MJ was a spectacular offensive player. Looking back at his Last Dance highlights I noticed something that no one else caught on to. The disturbing lack of good defensive players that MJ went against that were his size. It seemed like every perimeter player on the MJ highlight videos were 3 inches shorter and 30 lbs lighter than MJ. Where are the size appropriate defensive wizards he faced off against like a Kawhi, Artest, Draymond, George, Allen, Marion, etc. I went back to see the guys MJ played against and they were all undersized.

Dennis Johnson: 6' 4, 185 lbs
Craig Ehlo: 6' 6, 190 lbs
Dumars: 6' 3, 190 lbs
Byron Scott: 6' 3, 195 lbs
Starks: 6' 3, 180 lbs
Majerle: 6' 6, 215 lbs
Kevin Johnson: 6' 1, 180 lbs
Hawkins: 6' 3, 190 lbs
Gary Payton: 6-4, 180 lbs
Hornacek: 6' 3, 190 lbs

I don't see many good defensive players on this list. It's not a coincidence that MJ had his biggest struggles when he faced the only 2 good defensive players on this list (Dumars and Payton). If you pay attention you will notice how undersized all of these defenders were in comparison to MJ. He never faced off vs a 6' 7, 230 lbs wing like Kawhi who could get physical with him.

As far as I know, Joe Dumars is the only answer Jordan has ever given about who defends him the best.

But don't forget that Dennis Rodman also defended Jordan a bit when he was a Piston.

But it was usually just Dumars.

According to MJ, Dumars was the only guy that would check him for an entire game. And he would make MJ work on the other end too, sometimes outplaying Jordan on both ends (e.g. games 1 and 2 of the 1990 ECF).

Dumars was the only Piston Jordan respected.

But Dumars was a small guy and limited athletically.

No, MJ never faced a Kawhi or even an Iggy.

MJ never faced any defender that was also an elite athlete.

Imagine what people are going to think when Bron wins Finals MVP while being defended by Giannis (or even vice versa).

Perimeter players with the size and capability of LeBron and Giannis were science fiction in Jordan's era.

Or biblical. Nephilim. Giants. The sons of God.

i guess you never heard of that dude arnold? He was pretty strong.
Im pretty sure shawn marion, barea had little trouble with lebron. So size dosent matter that much espcially if you fall over when you bumb into players

Some players are just unguardable like mike. Doesnt matter who you throw at him.
Bigger player were blown by .
Smaller dudes kept up but he would shot over them
Because unlike lebron Jordan could shot at elite level from over 3 feet. And was elite at going to the basket you dont stop him. Give him food poisoning? Nope! you literally had to brake his feet to stop him. Or wait until he gets bored .

[foreigngrammar]

Washington Jordan failed to make the playoffs. Houston and Portland Pippen continued to make the playoffs.

Sent from my SM-N970W using Tapatalk

WHUAT?

[Hal14]

Didn't read through the whole 12 pages, but these are a few who aren't on the list in the original post:

Rodman - guarded him at times when he was in Detroit
Sidney Moncrief
Michael Cooper

That's 3 of the best defenders ever.

Others:
Drexler - good, not great defender
Reggie Lewis - good defender, long and athletic, 6'7"
Aaron McKie and George Lynch - both good defenders who went against Jordan during the second 3-peat
Gerald Wilkins at 6'6" was also a good defender but as you can see in this video MJ schooled him pretty good:

Watch on YouTube

Because he was really no good. Look at his numbers

What numbers? Defensive numbers? That's what we're talking about here, strictly defense and not offense. Defensive "numbers" rarely paint an accurate picture of how good a defender is.