Michael Jordan is still the GOAT. Lebron has solidified the #2 spot though.

prophet_of_rage · Post #221 » by **prophet_of_rage** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:46 pm

scrabbarista wrote:
LikeABosh wrote:
AlexanderRight wrote:Jordan was the MVP and best player in the league at 35...

LeBron is 36 in 2 months. Jordan was retired by then

Then how did he drop 43 when he was 40?

Came out of retirement.

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70sFan · Post #222 » by **70sFan** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:47 pm

VanWest82 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
The Warrior wrote:
Point being, not many if you have to post a picture of a relic.

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In a few years when fans are calling Jordan a relic, Russell will still have 11 rings and 8 in a row.

In an eight team league.

...and 14 teams league.

Dzon Dilindzer · Post #223 » by **Dzon Dilindzer** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:47 pm

no matter what, michael jordan will always be considered by majority to be the "goat" (whether he is or isnt)

he has the "goat" narrative and that will never go away

VanWest82 · Post #224 » by **VanWest82** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:48 pm

70sFan wrote:Russell won a ring in a league with 15 teams, beating two of the best teams in the league without HC advantage.

These kind of posts should be banned on RealGM...

Russell won four of his titles in an eight team league, five in a nine team league, one in a ten team league, and one in a 14 team league.

Emhoward · Post #225 » by **Emhoward** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:50 pm

I wonder how many millions of dollars this debate generates for the ESPN's of the world. And I get it, it's a seductive conversation.

I've come to the conclusion that there are too many variables to account for because of MJ and Bron playing in different eras. By the time you start getting into hand checking vs no hand checking, zone vs no zone -- you're one step away from being lost in the weeds. "

I usually say Michael was the greatest of his era, Lebron is the greatest of his, and Kobe/Shaq/Duncan was the bridge between them.

mademan · Post #226 » by **mademan** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:51 pm

VanWest82 wrote:There seems to be this feeling among Lebron stans that had KD not signed with Warriors Lebron wins in 17 and 18, but the part everyone forgets is how much Cavs also benefitted from the cap spike. Without the knowledge that the cap was about to increase by 40% they wouldn't have been able to keep Tristan Thompson and JR and Shump and also add guys like Channing Frye and Korver. They'd have been stuck with a bunch of min players. Lebron has played with more good teammates than anyone in the history of the league, including Bill Russell.

Pretty sure they had bird rights on all of them. And Lebron was never gonna let Gilbert cheap out and not pay the luxury tax

LouisLitt · Post #227 » by **LouisLitt** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:51 pm

Sgt Major wrote:This ain't insecurity, this is teaching kids history.

From your porch?

AlexanderRight · Post #228 » by **AlexanderRight** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:51 pm

LikeABosh wrote:
AlexanderRight wrote:
Alize wrote:Lebron is the goat. Jordan couldnt do these things at 35.

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Jordan was the MVP and best player in the league at 35...

LeBron is 36 in 2 months. Jordan was retired by then

Retired by choice. He was still the reigning regular season and finals MVP at 35 when he bounced because he had nothing left to prove. So saying Jordan wasn’t at an elite level at 35 just isn’t true...

Official · Post #229 » by **Official** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:52 pm

E-Balla wrote:
Also in the modern league Chicago would kill. Kerr-Harper-MJ-Scottie-Rodman would be a deadly lineup on both ends.

You are delusional. Harper 29% 3P, MJ 32% 3P, Pippen 32% 3P, and Rodman is a complete offensively liability- You don't even have to guard him and he plays below the rim and is not even a lob threat. Put it this way - all those players are equivalent to having Iggy and Draymond green shooting threes; and nobody guards those players. Now we can argue about whether all those players would be good three point shooters in todays league but that really is irrelevant because nobody can prove that.

dynamic duo · Post #230 » by **dynamic duo** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:52 pm

anti-lebron gang in shamblesland, lebron has now been the clear-cut best player in the finals 8 times and is still the best player in the world in his 17th season. jordan is a mount rushmore player still and was great at winning in a watered down 90s against the craig ehlo's of the world.

hoosierdaddy34 · Post #231 » by **hoosierdaddy34** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:52 pm

Alize wrote:Lebron is the goat. Jordan couldnt do these things at 35.

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MJ won his final title at 34 and was at the top of his game when retiring. Came back at 38 and was still in the top 25 players in the league. I don’t think it’s unreasonable think that yes he would have done it again at age 35.

mademan · Post #232 » by **mademan** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:53 pm

AlexanderRight wrote:
LikeABosh wrote:
AlexanderRight wrote:Jordan was the MVP and best player in the league at 35...

LeBron is 36 in 2 months. Jordan was retired by then

Retired by choice. He was still the reigning regular season and finals MVP at 35 when he bounced because he had nothing left to prove. So saying Jordan wasn’t at an elite level at 35 just isn’t true...

by choice is kinda irrelevant. Lebron already has a longer career than Jordan and will only add on to it. Dude might legit finish with the most points in the history of the league

70sFan · Post #233 » by **70sFan** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:55 pm

VanWest82 wrote:
70sFan wrote:Russell won a ring in a league with 15 teams, beating two of the best teams in the league without HC advantage.

These kind of posts should be banned on RealGM...

Russell won four of his titles in an eight team league, five in a nine team league, one in a ten team league, and one in a 14 team league. Posts like yours completely misrepresent the truth. You'd think you'd at least do the research while you're admonishing someone.

Except you are wrong.

In 1967/68 the NBA had 12 teams:

Spoiler:

For someone who "did the research" you did quite a poor job.

I misremembered 1969, there were 14, not 15, teams in the league then.

All of these doesn't change anything - Russell faced significantly tougher competition in 1968 and 1969 playoffs than Lakers did in 2020. Acting like he did that because he had no competition is just false. He faced some of the best teams and players ever on his path.

VanWest82 · Post #234 » by **VanWest82** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:56 pm

mademan wrote:
VanWest82 wrote:There seems to be this feeling among Lebron stans that had KD not signed with Warriors Lebron wins in 17 and 18, but the part everyone forgets is how much Cavs also benefitted from the cap spike. Without the knowledge that the cap was about to increase by 40% they wouldn't have been able to keep Tristan Thompson and JR and Shump and also add guys like Channing Frye and Korver. They'd have been stuck with a bunch of min players. Lebron has played with more good teammates than anyone in the history of the league, including Bill Russell.

Pretty sure they had bird rights on all of them. And Lebron was never gonna let Gilbert cheap out and not pay the luxury tax

Cavs would've been close to the tax even without those guys. Lebron, Love, and Kyrie were all already on max or close to max deals. No way Gilbert would've paid that tax bill. That's insane. They would've lost TT for sure.

Kobe187 · Post #235 » by **Kobe187** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:57 pm

Freighttrain wrote:aah the smell of insecurity

Like a previous poster said; this isn’t insecurity, it’s giving kids a history lesson. These GOAT debates are laughable, the agenda trying to be pushed is pathetic. Jordan is the GOAT and LeBron’s not even close. It’s about integrity and putting respect where it legitimately belongs.

mademan · Post #236 » by **mademan** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:58 pm

VanWest82 wrote:
mademan wrote:
VanWest82 wrote:There seems to be this feeling among Lebron stans that had KD not signed with Warriors Lebron wins in 17 and 18, but the part everyone forgets is how much Cavs also benefitted from the cap spike. Without the knowledge that the cap was about to increase by 40% they wouldn't have been able to keep Tristan Thompson and JR and Shump and also add guys like Channing Frye and Korver. They'd have been stuck with a bunch of min players. Lebron has played with more good teammates than anyone in the history of the league, including Bill Russell.

Pretty sure they had bird rights on all of them. And Lebron was never gonna let Gilbert cheap out and not pay the luxury tax

Cavs would've been close to the tax even without those guys. Lebron, Love, and Kyrie were all already on max deals. No way Gilbert would've paid that tax bill. That's insane. They would've lost TT for sure.

Cavs obviously wouldve paid them, not 15 mill each, which they only got because of the cap hike, but more reasonable contracts that they wouldve been in line for at the time. If you dont remember, Lebron was a FA at the time too, and he was only coming back if Gilbert was willing to spend. And Gilbert never shyed away from paying when Lebron was there the first go around

camby23 · Post #237 » by **camby23** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 6:59 pm

Most playoff games with at least 20 points (212).
Most playoff games scoring at least 30 points (110 times).
Most playoff games with at least 20 points, 10 rebounds, and 10 assists (20).
Most playoff games with at least 30 points, 10 rebounds, and 5 assists (37).
Most playoff games with at least 40 points, 5 rebounds, and 5 assists (18).
1st in Win Shares (51.0).
11.24 more than the next player on the list Michael Jordan (39.76).
2nd in Box Plus/Minus (10.16)
0.98 behind Michael Jordan (11.14).
1st in VORP - Value Over Replacement Player (33.1).
10.25 more than next player on the list Michael Jordan (22.85)
T-1st place all-time for postseasons with at least 500 total points (8 times).
With Michael Jordan (8).
2nd for consecutive 20-point games to start a playoff career (19).
Behind Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's (27).
2nd place all-time for playoff games scoring at least 40 points (27 times).
Behind Michael Jordan (38).
2nd place all-time for playoff games scoring at least 45 points (10 times).
Behind Michael Jordan (23).
2nd place all-time for triple-doubles in the playoffs (23).
Behind Magic Johnson (30).
2nd place all-time for most assist in a playoff carrer (1871)
Behind Magic Johnson (2346)
2nd place all-time for most defensive rebounds in a playoffs career (1,756).
Behind Tim Duncan (2,081).
T-2nd place all-time for most NBA Finals MVP Awards (4).
Behind Michael Jordan (6).

Only player in NBA history to be in the top 10 all time in career playoff points, rebounds, assists and steals.
Only player in NBA history to be in the top 5 all-time in career playoff points, assists, and steals.

Only player in NBA history to lead both teams in points, rebounds, assists, blocks, and steals in a playoff series (2016 NBA Finals vs. Golden State Warriors).
Only player in NBA history to lead both teams in points, rebounds, assists in a playoff series (twice, 2015 and 2016 NBA Finals vs. Golden State Warriors)
T-1st place all-time in NBA history to average at least 30 points, 10 rebounds, and 10 assists in a playoff series (2017 NBA Finals vs. Golden State Warriors).
Includes Russell Westbrook.
Only player in NBA history to win over 20 consecutive games in the first round
Only player in NBA history to sweep 10 series in the playoffs

Most consecutive points scored for a team in a playoff game with 25 consecutive points at the Detroit Pistons on May 31, 2007.
One of three players in NBA history to record at least 45 points, 15 rebounds, and 5 assists in a playoff game.
Includes Wilt Chamberlain and Russell Westbrook.
One of three players in NBA history to record a triple-double in their playoff debut.
Includes Johnny McCarthy and Magic Johnson.

Most points per game scored by a player on the winning team in any seven-game NBA Finals series with 29.7.
2nd place all-time for highest percentage of team points in an NBA Finals series.
Behind Michael Jordan's 38.4%; James accounted for 38.3% of his team's points in the 2015 NBA Finals.
Only player in NBA history to record at least two triple-doubles with 30 or more points in one NBA Finals series.
Only player in NBA history to average at least 25 points, 10 rebounds, and 7 assists in an NBA Finals series (accomplished this three times).
Only player in NBA history to lead both teams in points, rebounds, and assists in an NBA Finals series. (2015 and 2016; also led both teams in steals and blocks in the 2016 Finals.)
Only player in NBA history to average a triple-double in an NBA Finals series.
James averaged 33.6 points, 12.0 rebounds, and 10.0 assists in the 2017 NBA Finals.
Only player in NBA history to average at least 35 points, 10 rebounds, and 5 assists in an NBA Finals series.
James averaged 35.8 points, 13.3 rebounds, 8.8 assists in the 2015 NBA Finals.
Only player in NBA history to score at least 40 points in consecutive elimination games in a single NBA Finals series.
One of three players in NBA history to score at least 40 points in at least three games in a single NBA Finals series.
Includes Michael Jordan (who scored at least 40 points in four games in a row in the 1993 NBA Finals) and Shaquille O'Neal.
Game Edit
Only player in NBA history to score at least 40 points and record at least half of his team's assists in an NBA Finals game.
James achieved this twice in a single NBA Finals series.
One of two players in NBA history to record at least 35 points, 15 rebounds, and 10 assists in an NBA Finals game.
Includes James Worthy.
One of two players in NBA history to record a triple-double with at least 40 points in an NBA Finals game.
Includes Jerry West.
One of two players in NBA history to record a triple-double in an NBA Finals clinching game, twice.
Includes Magic Johnson (1982 and 1985).
One of three players in NBA history to record a triple-double in an elimination game in an NBA Finals game.
Includes Bill Russell and James Worthy.
One of three players in NBA history to record a triple-double in Game 7 of the NBA Finals.
Includes Jerry West and James Worthy.
One of four players in NBA history to score at least 40 points in consecutive NBA Finals games.
Includes Jerry West (achieved this twice), Michael Jordan (achieved this in four consecutive games), Rick Barry, Shaquille O'Neal.
One of six players in NBA history to record a triple-double in Game 1 of the NBA Finals.
Includes Wilt Chamberlain (1967), Walt Frazier (1972), Dave Cowens (1976), Magic Johnson (1991), and Jason Kidd (2002).

LouisLitt · Post #238 » by **LouisLitt** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:01 pm

Kobe187 wrote:
Freighttrain wrote:aah the smell of insecurity

Like a previous poster said; this isn’t insecurity, it’s giving kids a history lesson. These GOAT debates are laughable, the agenda trying to be pushed is pathetic. Jordan is the GOAT and it’s not even close, show some respect to Black Jesus.

This is about people not wanting to let go of their childhood hero.

The fact that it's "not even close" to some people speaks a lot.

Someone could come along, go 10 for 10, 10 FMVP's, 10 MVP's, 10 scoring titles, 10 DPOY, and you guys still would say Jordan's the best.

Both Lebron and Jordan are reasonable picks.

Infinite Llamas · Post #239 » by **Infinite Llamas** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:01 pm

dynamic duo wrote:anti-lebron gang in shamblesland, lebron has now been the clear-cut best player in the finals 8 times and is still the best player in the world in his 17th season. jordan is a mount rushmore player still and was great at winning in a watered down 90s against the craig ehlo's of the world.

Meh at least Jordan beat Ehlo. How did Lebron fare against Barea?

Freighttrain · Post #240 » by **Freighttrain** » Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:02 pm

Kobe187 wrote:
Freighttrain wrote:aah the smell of insecurity

Like a previous poster said; this isn’t insecurity, it’s giving kids a history lesson. These GOAT debates are laughable, the agenda trying to be pushed is pathetic. Jordan is the GOAT and it’s not even close.

Doing this less after 24 hours since LeBron won his latest chip reeks of anxiety my man :lol: