NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2)

[playa-hater]

Tatum or Joker or Joker or Tatum.. They both impact their teams in a little bit different of a way but I see them as the top 2 by a good margin over the rest of the field..

As of now of course.. Things can change..

[eyeatoma]

Joker love fest in here continuing. Watch him get exposed again in the playoffs when a team repeatedly targets him. The only true chance they have is if they figure out some sort of zone defense to playz

Glad to see not everyone is blinded here.

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GB is going to be insufferable with this 40 piece triple double.

Greatest stat line of all time. VoRp, SNORp, CLARP, Pterodactyl...

Such a hater. Worst poster on this forum and that’s saying a lot.

Sucks I know. Run out of things to say and you resort to personal insults.

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[Mick Dundee]

Jokic has been fully healthy the whole time and was carried to the WCF by bubble Murray.

What you mean he was carried by bubble Murray?

[cam24thomas]

If Nets finish #1 is KD definitely the MVP?

[AleksandarN]

Read on Twitter

Jokic and Embiid robbed imho

[PennSports]

jokic is criminally underappreciated. the team is like, 19pp100 better offensively when he's on the court lol. the nuggets are beating teams by 10pp100 when he's in and losing by 13pp100 when he's on the bench. jokic has no control over the latter.

he's taken the lead over everyone else in most impact metrics. he's the best player in the league.

He has 2mvps and is in the lead for an unprecedented third. He is not the underdog you want him to be and is not disrespected at all, look at the poll

[themoneyteam2]

It’s always weird to me there is even an MVP discussion after 30 games. It’s like the narrative started after the first 10-15 games and then it’s nearly impossible to get in the race if you haven’t already been talked about lol.

A guy like KD hasn’t been mentioned at all it seems like and should very clearly be in the conversation but because the Nets got off to a bad start he wasn’t

[eyeatoma]

Jokic has been fully healthy the whole time and was carried to the WCF by bubble Murray.

What you mean he was carried by bubble Murray?

The 50 point games he traded with Mitchell in the playoffs to get the team to the WCF.. without those two Jordan like perfoemances, Nuggets wouldn't have sniffed the WCF during the bubble playoffs.

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[Decipher]

They showed the Vegas odds for MVP during the Nets game & Giannis is still 2nd

He's obviously a top player but this year hasn't been his best & he has just been pretty ordinary in 2 high profile games so I don't see it at this stage

[Exp0sed]

jokic is criminally underappreciated. the team is like, 19pp100 better offensively when he's on the court lol. the nuggets are beating teams by 10pp100 when he's in and losing by 13pp100 when he's on the bench. jokic has no control over the latter.

he's taken the lead over everyone else in most impact metrics. he's the best player in the league.

He has 2mvps and is in the lead for an unprecedented third. He is not the underdog you want him to be and is not disrespected at all, look at the poll

if it weren't for "voter fatigue" he would have been the Vegas odds-on favorite from the preseason
no1 cares about him being an underdog or not

he won 2 MVPs and possibly (unlikely imo) is on his way to his 3rd "unprecedented" MVP because he is doing unprecedented things :p

I wouldn't think this is so hard to grasp but clearly - it is

[Mick Dundee]

Jokic has been fully healthy the whole time and was carried to the WCF by bubble Murray.

What you mean he was carried by bubble Murray?

The 50 point games he traded with Mitchell in the playoffs to get the team to the WCF.. without those two Jordan like perfoemances, Nuggets wouldn't have sniffed the WCF during the bubble playoffs.

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Murray had one 50 Point game against Utah and one 41 Point game.

And in Game 7 Jokic killed the Series with 30 Points 4 Ast and 14 Rebounds.

In the last two Games against the Clippers Jokic had 34/14/7 and and a 16/22/13 TD in the Final Game to seal the deal.

So I don't quite understand how you get that Murray carried him to the WCF.

[Exp0sed]

Tatum or Joker or Joker or Tatum.. They both impact their teams in a little bit different of a way but I see them as the top 2 by a good margin over the rest of the field..

As of now of course.. Things can change..

what seperates Durant and Tatum?

personally I have Durant over Tatum rn, I think he's the clear #2 atm and if he stays healthy, keeps it up and the Nets continue to dominate,and don't kid urselves they've been dominating ever since the weak start - I think he is likely to get it

even Jokic somehow continues this crazyness and Durant will finish 2nd, in your opinion -how come Tatum has a good margin over Durant?
(others as well, but let's focus on KD for the moment)

[Exp0sed]

Nikola Jokic is absolutely obscene as a shooter.

i'm a huge Jokic fan but i disagree he's an obscene shooter
he's a good shooter, no doubt

what he is "obscene" at - is shot selection

in practice, or an open gym - he wouldn't make more of these mid-range shots than CP3, MJ, Bird, Dirk and plenty of other players jus gave a few notable examples

He reads the defense and has insane body control so he can divert the play from an intended shot to say..a pass, on the fly as he thinks and reacts very quickly and has the body control to pull it off

even from the same spot, when it's just not "right", like when he isn't really in his spot or off-balance, what have u - he will try to make a better play, he doesn't "settle" he's always looking for the optimal play

we haven't seen something like that before
most great scorers and shooters in history are were content in letting it rip provided it's a makeable shot for them, when it's not "too" hard. Jokic sets the bar differently

naturally sometimes late in the clock he hoists it up but even then he is very selective and deliberate

he really as an uncanny ability to "select" his shots, just the very original way in which he plays the game

let's give an example:
Jokic gets the ball at the top of the key and he's semi-open or even open. he'll take the shot (sometimes) when he's feeling it or when he feels like he needs to make one or two to open the game up for himself, or in when the defense isn't set and someone like AG is in good rebounding position but more often than not - he'll go for a shot fake and drive inside

these end up in better shots for him, as the defence is scrambling and thus likely to make a mistake (no1 in the league is better at identifying and captilizing on such defensive lapses) or they end up with better shots for one of his teammates (or in a To\miss whatever ofc)

let's say he would take those when semi-open or open like most scoreres \ shooters will do (and are instructed to do!)
in such a scenario he would probably shoot like 33-35% on those open shots have 2 more 3's a game and average 30 ppg

easiliy..

but Jokic is different, he tries to find the better play and him shooting an open 3 while it's above league avg offense in terms of PPP - it's below his\the Nuggets - He can do better and so he does..

Jokic is a baller, he senses the flow of the game,reads the defense and selects shots in a very unconventional manner and he obviously is making the right decisions as he is breaking efficiency records year after year

so scorer? def
passer? you betcha!
playmaker? without a doubt
but shooter? thats just not accurate

yes, he is making more from 5-10 and other ranges than juswt about anyone in NBA history, no it's not because of his elite shooting

even tho he is a good shooter regardless

[Decipher]

Tatum or Joker or Joker or Tatum.. They both impact their teams in a little bit different of a way but I see them as the top 2 by a good margin over the rest of the field..

As of now of course.. Things can change..

what seperates Durant and Tatum?

personally I have Durant over Tatum rn, I think he's the clear #2 atm and if he stays healthy, keeps it up and the Nets continue to dominate,and don't kid urselves they've been dominating ever since the weak start - I think he is likely to get it

even Jokic somehow continues this crazyness and Durant will finish 2nd, in your opinion -how come Tatum has a good margin over Durant?
(others as well, but let's focus on KD for the moment)

Vaughn has said that they want to load manage KD in the 2nd half & KD personally doesn't care about the MVP so he will taper off

Having said that, it's pretty ridiculous that nobody talks about him in a season where he's breaking scoring records and defending really well

[eyeatoma]

What you mean he was carried by bubble Murray?

The 50 point games he traded with Mitchell in the playoffs to get the team to the WCF.. without those two Jordan like perfoemances, Nuggets wouldn't have sniffed the WCF during the bubble playoffs.

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Murray had one 50 Point game against Utah and one 41 Point game.

And in Game 7 Jokic killed the Series with 30 Points 4 Ast and 14 Rebounds.

In the last two Games against the Clippers Jokic had 34/14/7 and and a 16/22/13 TD in the Final Game to seal the deal.

So I don't quite understand how you get that Murray carried him to the WCF.

It was widely considered that Murray was the star of that series. Not Jokic.

And no, you are wrong. Murray had 50 points twice against the Jazz, as well as another 40 points against the Jazz.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jamal-murray-bubble-stats

[Bob8]

People might be rightly impressed by Jokic's shooting, but we have to take in account 2 things,

It's not the same averaging 32+ points or 25 points and second is % of assisted shots. Jokic's 2-pts shots are assisted 60% and his 3-pts 87%. Luka for example has assisted only 9% of his 2-pts and 18% of his 3-pts.

[Richard Miller]

People might be rightly impressed by Jokic's shooting, but we have to take in account 2 things,

It's not the same averaging 32+ points or 25 points and second is % of assisted shots. Jokic's 2-pts shots are assisted 60% and his 3-pts 87%. Luka for example has assisted only 9% of his 2-pts and 18% of his 3-pts.

Yea Jokic is just standing there waiting to shoot while others create for him

[Bob8]

People might be rightly impressed by Jokic's shooting, but we have to take in account 2 things,

It's not the same averaging 32+ points or 25 points and second is % of assisted shots. Jokic's 2-pts shots are assisted 60% and his 3-pts 87%. Luka for example has assisted only 9% of his 2-pts and 18% of his 3-pts.

Yea Jokic is just standing there waiting to shoot while others create for him

Did I say that? I just said, that he's shooting less and more of his shots are assisted. Normally shooting less and better shots will bring you better %. MJ or Kobe weren't exactly known as very efficient players, not many big volume players are. Shooting 70% of his shots from 0-10 helps his efficiency too, that's why Cs are dominating in TS%.

People should focus on his playmaking, not scoring. There's where he makes the difference and is elite of the elite and why he deserves being MVP.

[Mick Dundee]

It was widely considered that Murray was the star of that series. Not Jokic.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jamal-murray-bubble-stats

I'm not denying that Murray was the better Player overall throughout the Series.

But thats not what you said.

You said Murray carried Jokic to the WCF, which is not true.

Both carried the Nuggets to the WCF, with Jokic putting up the best performances in the decisive games.

[Exp0sed]

People might be rightly impressed by Jokic's shooting, but we have to take in account 2 things,

It's not the same averaging 32+ points or 25 points and second is % of assisted shots. Jokic's 2-pts shots are assisted 60% and his 3-pts 87%. Luka for example has assisted only 9% of his 2-pts and 18% of his 3-pts.

Eh, Jokic is a big man

when he seals a small defender in position down low etc. obviously he need to recieve the ball in such position

Embiid for instance is assisted on 56% of his FG and 89% of his 3's

even Zion is assisted on 50% of his FG and 83% of his 3's

When Jokic or Embiid get the ball in a position to score, they make their move off the catch (it might involve putting the ball on the floor or not)

Luka handles and dribbles the ball way more than those big men
even off the catch he will usually dribble for a couple of secs into his spot

the point is he uses dribble drive to score, he generates the shots using his dribble
Jokic and Embiid do that as well sometimes but obiously far less because they don't need to - they're big men and they have different roles

ur stats are just an observation of a natural phenomenon known as "height matters" in basketball

edit: as for the 25+ ppg issuee meh
Jokic averaged 30 last season when he needed to with similar efficiency
multiple 30+ playoff games he demonstrated the same ability

he could score 30+ easily if he wanted to and he doesn't want to
he'll have a couple less assists a game a few more buckets

big whoop