2024 Olympic BASKETBALL Thread (pt.6: USA Men & Women Win Gold)

[Mephariel]

A World All-Star team would be salty as hell.

They'd have the same issues we do in terms of figuring out a hierarchy and who can adjust from being The Guy to slotting into more limited roles. As amazing as they are, Jokic and Doncic might not fit together as seamlessly as you'd think given that they're both used to having an entire system run around them. To say nothing of an SGA, who I could easily see struggling with a more off-the-ball role. But in terms of raw talent, that would be an incredible collection. Frankly, I think they'd beat us more often than not.

And that's where the "world has caught up" notion rings true. For anybody who has been watching the NBA as long as I have (late 80s), the growth of the world talent pool over the past 30-plus years has been remarkable. You had oddities like Detlef Schrempf and Vlade Divac, who were really nice players. But I don't think anybody could have seen the complete sea change coming where the NBA is approaching a full third of its players being from overseas with perennial MVP candidates.

In terms of actual international games, however, it's always going to be an uphill climb because of the numbers game. We have almost 350 million people. Serbia is smaller than five different U.S. metro areas, let alone full states, let alone the entire country. They played an almost perfect game in the first half, had a 15-point lead with less than 11 minutes left, hit 15 3s through 3 quarters and it still wasn't enough. So that's what you're always going to be up against.

The world hasn't caught up. The world is dependent on our next door neighbors for guard play. The world is dependent on guards like SGA and before him Ben Simmons, two guys that played high school basketball in the United States. I would make a rule that if you were playing basketball in the United States before the age of 18, then you can not compete on the world team. The world is trying to beat us with our own products.

I am not going that far, but you have a point. The only reason the world has players that "caught up" is because they use our system to develop their players.

[MrSparkle]

Lot of quick passes for open 3Ps and full court ball pressure, so everybody claiming Kerr f***ed up with his small SG/SF rotations is kinda out their element. You needed quicker handles and quicker feet at those spots against Serbia.

Either Lebron/Durant or Tatum were gonna fill the spot PF minutes (and SF), and I don’t blame Kerr for sticking with the 2 best superstars of the last 2 decades in a deficit game.

Tatum will get his big role in what should be a blowout finals game. Might be wrong… maybe the French hotel feeds the US team some laxatives… but I don’t see how France scores over 80 points this Saturday. They’ve routinely scored under 80, besides Japan - the shortest and perhaps least talented team in the tourney. USA meanwhile has scored 100+ in every game besides Serbia. Tatum will get his minutes and all will be well.

[Wingy]

Looked back at some highlights. Yeah, Micic trying to be a hero…yikes for Serbia.

Forgot how Serbia screwed up letting some 18-19 seconds burn off before deciding to foul the US’s best shooter. Also yikes.

Don’t like the possession rule for that 6 point swing. Too big a reward for a single foul.

[rockmanslim]

Tatum getting shineboxed could very well be the most enjoyable thing to happen at these Olympics. 10/10 would watch again

[Statlanta]

All the players we want to replace with Tatum are better ball-handlers than Tatum. Is the defense you are getting that much better when the US is bigger than everyone besides France?

The team becomes even slower if you replace White, Curry, Holiday, Edwards, Booker with Tatum.

[durden_tyler]

Since we are talking about world cup. If FIBA wants to make that competition more attractive for players and some federations, they should make it The only way to qualify to the Olympics. No more pre Olympic qualifiers. When copa America was the qualifying tournament, and usa didn't win the world championship, they would always send a very strong team, and we see now how much they care about that competition.

Good idea but less profit for FIBA so no, will never happen now.


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[falcolombardi]

I always think americans only need to look at ncaa to see how volatile 1 game elimination basketball is

You need a comfortable error margin (aka being much better than compwtition) to always win

[homecourtloss]

I always think americans only need to look at ncaa to see how volatile 1 game elimination basketball is

You need a comfortable error margin (aka being much better than compwtition) to always win

I was able to make quite a bit of money banking on the fact that no team ever destroys another good team three times in a row in close proximity—it just doesn’t happen. Everyteam is going h to face at least one close game. US started ant -17.5, and I played it safe to get Serbia at +20.5 at -165. Wish I went with my instincts and went fur the full cover.

Serbia got outscored by 52 over three games. They’d never win a best of 5 or 7.

[sol537]

Kerr needs to stop messing around and start Embiid, KD, Lebron, Booker, Curry. Use AD, Holiday, Tatum, White, and Ant off the bench sparingly. Let the starters play the bulk of it and bring home the gold. Our big 3 will do it.

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

[Slacktard]

Read on Twitter

Anytime Dave Portnoy is on the opposite side, just makes me feel better about the side that I'm on.

[_AIJ_]

All Nuggets fans on twitter are so butthurt lmao

[Sedale Threatt]

I am not going that far, but you have a point. The only reason the world has players that "caught up" is because they use our system to develop their players.

Eh, not necessarily. In plenty of instances, sure. Players like Embiid and especially Giannis, who even though he came over as a pro was raw as hell and became what he is through NBA developmental coaching. But on the flip side, you have an ocean of players like Nowitzki, Parker, Gasol, Jokic, Doncic -- just off the top of my head; it's a massive list -- who, if not fully formed, were already foundationally set when they came over here. Somebody like Manu Ginobili was a genius who obviously improved by playing against the world's best players every night, but he came over here in his 20s and just needed to acclimate. You can go on and on.

Just the fact that we've gone from barely bothering to scout foreign players to comprising a full quarter of the player pool speaks for itself. So does the progression of these tournaments. We used to be able to win them easily with college players. Then we could roll out pretty much any pro group and win. Now we have to put real effort into building rosters or we're in jeopardy.

I go back to population -- our biggest advantage is always going to be that we have a gigantic pool of athletes from which to grow and choose players. But in terms of our pure development culture, I think it's got massive shortcomings. AAU is wildly inconsistent, with some legit great programs and others that are basically run by sneaker pimps. And then college limits the amount of time coaches can work with players because of their outdated amateur rules. Whereas in other parts of the world, young prospects frequently sign as pros and are commonly exposed to pro caliber coaching before they hit their teens.

This is a bit dated by now, but a lot of it still stands today:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/9364989/san-antonio-spurs-doing-right-drafting-international-athletes-espn-magazine

I get the instinct to put it down. There are always a few foreign posters that crawl out of the woodwork during these tournaments -- usually the World Cup -- that want to use any U.S. loss as a referendum about American basketball, and I love few things more than seeing them eat their words. But at the same time, we have a lot of posters on our side who do a lot of the same type sht. Give respect where respect is due.

[Hsker4Life]

All Nuggets fans on twitter are so butthurt lmao

Weirdly so are Celtics fans.

[Sedale Threatt]

Dave Portnoy is one of the biggest dipshts on the Internet, so I enjoyed the tantrum. Thank you.

[RB34]

Tatum getting shineboxed could very well be the most enjoyable thing to happen at these Olympics. 10/10 would watch again

If you think that’s enjoyable, you should rewatch game 5 of the finals.

[Mephariel]

I am not going that far, but you have a point. The only reason the world has players that "caught up" is because they use our system to develop their players.

Eh, not necessarily. In plenty of instances, sure. Players like Embiid and especially Giannis, who even though he came over as a pro was raw as hell and became what he is through NBA developmental coaching. But on the flip side, you have an ocean of players like Nowitzki, Parker, Gasol, Jokic, Doncic -- just off the top of my head; it's a massive list -- who, if not fully formed, were already foundationally set when they came over here. Somebody like Manu Ginobili was a genius who obviously improved by playing against the world's best players every night, but he came over here in his 20s and just needed to acclimate. You can go on and on.

Just the fact that we've gone from barely bothering to scout foreign players to comprising a full quarter of the player pool speaks for itself. So does the progression of these tournaments. We used to be able to win them easily with college players. Then we could roll out pretty much any pro group and win. Now we have to put real effort into building rosters or we're in jeopardy.

I go back to population -- our biggest advantage is always going to be that we have a gigantic pool of athletes from which to grow and choose players. But in terms of our pure development culture, I think it's got massive shortcomings. AAU is wildly inconsistent, with some legit great programs and others that are basically run by sneaker pimps. And then college limits the amount of time coaches can work with players because of their outdated amateur rules. Whereas in other parts of the world, young prospects frequently sign as pros and are commonly exposed to pro caliber coaching before they hit their teens.

This is a bit dated by now, but a lot of it still stands today:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/9364989/san-antonio-spurs-doing-right-drafting-international-athletes-espn-magazine

I get the instinct to put it down. There are always a few foreign posters that crawl out of the woodwork during these tournaments -- usually the World Cup -- that want to use any U.S. loss as a referendum about American basketball, and I love few things more than seeing them eat their words. But at the same time, we have a lot of posters on our side who do a lot of the same type sht. Give respect where respect is due.

Every single one of the players you mentioned benefited from playing in the America. It is not just having world class strength training, coaching, and world class development, it is also having world class training partners. Iron sharpens Iron. Look at what the USA's strength and conditioning program did for Yao Ming. He was massively stronger just by his 2nd-3rd year. I never seen a Chinese center in China that looked like peak Yao physically.

Did the world get better? Of course. by leaps and bounds. But we played a significant part in that. Look at someone like Shai Gilgeous-Alexander. He went to high school in the US and played in the NCAA, and hone his skills in the NBA. He is essentially an American product. But he plays for Canada. You can say the same for Brooks, Barrett, and Wiggins.

If you take away American made players, Canada wouldn't even have a competitive team.

[Sedale Threatt]

I am not going that far, but you have a point. The only reason the world has players that "caught up" is because they use our system to develop their players.

Eh, not necessarily. In plenty of instances, sure. Players like Embiid and especially Giannis, who even though he came over as a pro was raw as hell and became what he is through NBA developmental coaching. But on the flip side, you have an ocean of players like Nowitzki, Parker, Gasol, Jokic, Doncic -- just off the top of my head; it's a massive list -- who, if not fully formed, were already foundationally set when they came over here. Somebody like Manu Ginobili was a genius who obviously improved by playing against the world's best players every night, but he came over here in his 20s and just needed to acclimate. You can go on and on.

Just the fact that we've gone from barely bothering to scout foreign players to comprising a full quarter of the player pool speaks for itself. So does the progression of these tournaments. We used to be able to win them easily with college players. Then we could roll out pretty much any pro group and win. Now we have to put real effort into building rosters or we're in jeopardy.

I go back to population -- our biggest advantage is always going to be that we have a gigantic pool of athletes from which to grow and choose players. But in terms of our pure development culture, I think it's got massive shortcomings. AAU is wildly inconsistent, with some legit great programs and others that are basically run by sneaker pimps. And then college limits the amount of time coaches can work with players because of their outdated amateur rules. Whereas in other parts of the world, young prospects frequently sign as pros and are commonly exposed to pro caliber coaching before they hit their teens.

This is a bit dated by now, but a lot of it still stands today:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/9364989/san-antonio-spurs-doing-right-drafting-international-athletes-espn-magazine

I get the instinct to put it down. There are always a few foreign posters that crawl out of the woodwork during these tournaments -- usually the World Cup -- that want to use any U.S. loss as a referendum about American basketball, and I love few things more than seeing them eat their words. But at the same time, we have a lot of posters on our side who do a lot of the same type sht. Give respect where respect is due.

Every single one of the players you mentioned benefited from playing in the America. It is not just having world class strength training, coaching, and world class development, it is also having world class training partners. Iron sharpens Iron. Look at what the USA's strength and conditioning program did for Yao Ming. He was massively stronger just by his 2nd-3rd year. I never seen a Chinese center in China that looked like peak Yao physically.

Did the world get better? Of course. by leaps and bounds. But we played a significant part in that. Look at someone like Shai Gilgeous-Alexander. He went to high school in the US and played in the NCAA, and hone his skills in the NBA. He is essentially an American product. But he plays for Canada. You can say the same for Brooks, Barrett, and Wiggins.

If you take away American made players, Canada wouldn't even have a competitive team.

Sure they all benefited. NBA development programs tend to be pretty good, if hard to fully implement just because of how many games are played and especially how much travel there is. You'd improve just by being exposed to world-class competition every night. But again, there is an absolute river of players who have come over in recent decades who were in immediate position to contribute and thrive resulting from quality coaching and development in their own countries. I listed a bunch of them and there are scores more. It's definitely symbiotic but there has been more than enough improvement around the globe that we don't have to be jingoistic and take credit for every single bit of it.

[Sedale Threatt]

Hell, look at Wembanyama: You could tell before he played a single minute in the NBA that he was something we'd never seen before. A freaking 7-foot-4 kid with guard skills shooting sidestep and stepback 3s. A lot of that is undoubtedly watching and implementing skills he's seen on the NBA stage. And a lot of that is being in an environment where he can develop those skills in the first place, none of which happened here.

[Mephariel]

Eh, not necessarily. In plenty of instances, sure. Players like Embiid and especially Giannis, who even though he came over as a pro was raw as hell and became what he is through NBA developmental coaching. But on the flip side, you have an ocean of players like Nowitzki, Parker, Gasol, Jokic, Doncic -- just off the top of my head; it's a massive list -- who, if not fully formed, were already foundationally set when they came over here. Somebody like Manu Ginobili was a genius who obviously improved by playing against the world's best players every night, but he came over here in his 20s and just needed to acclimate. You can go on and on.

Just the fact that we've gone from barely bothering to scout foreign players to comprising a full quarter of the player pool speaks for itself. So does the progression of these tournaments. We used to be able to win them easily with college players. Then we could roll out pretty much any pro group and win. Now we have to put real effort into building rosters or we're in jeopardy.

I go back to population -- our biggest advantage is always going to be that we have a gigantic pool of athletes from which to grow and choose players. But in terms of our pure development culture, I think it's got massive shortcomings. AAU is wildly inconsistent, with some legit great programs and others that are basically run by sneaker pimps. And then college limits the amount of time coaches can work with players because of their outdated amateur rules. Whereas in other parts of the world, young prospects frequently sign as pros and are commonly exposed to pro caliber coaching before they hit their teens.

This is a bit dated by now, but a lot of it still stands today:

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/9364989/san-antonio-spurs-doing-right-drafting-international-athletes-espn-magazine

I get the instinct to put it down. There are always a few foreign posters that crawl out of the woodwork during these tournaments -- usually the World Cup -- that want to use any U.S. loss as a referendum about American basketball, and I love few things more than seeing them eat their words. But at the same time, we have a lot of posters on our side who do a lot of the same type sht. Give respect where respect is due.

Every single one of the players you mentioned benefited from playing in the America. It is not just having world class strength training, coaching, and world class development, it is also having world class training partners. Iron sharpens Iron. Look at what the USA's strength and conditioning program did for Yao Ming. He was massively stronger just by his 2nd-3rd year. I never seen a Chinese center in China that looked like peak Yao physically.

Did the world get better? Of course. by leaps and bounds. But we played a significant part in that. Look at someone like Shai Gilgeous-Alexander. He went to high school in the US and played in the NCAA, and hone his skills in the NBA. He is essentially an American product. But he plays for Canada. You can say the same for Brooks, Barrett, and Wiggins.

If you take away American made players, Canada wouldn't even have a competitive team.

Sure they all benefited. NBA development programs tend to be pretty good, if hard to fully implement just because of how many games are played and especially how much travel there is. You'd improve just by being exposed to world-class competition every night. But again, there is an absolute river of players who have come over in recent decades who were in immediate position to contribute and thrive resulting from quality coaching and development in their own countries. I listed a bunch of them and there are scores more. It's definitely symbiotic but there has been more than enough improvement around the globe that we don't have to be jingoistic and take credit for every single bit of it.

It is not about taking credit, I am just stating facts. Again the world has improved, but a majority of the players that are anchoring international teams benefited from learning and training in the USA, including Jokic, Schröder, Giannis, Shai, Gabriel, Gobert, etc.