Steph Curry and the Gaslighting Campaign Against Him

[brackdan70]

That old picture where guy is crying behind the smiling mask. This thread in the nutshell

No need to be so grumpy. Just because you're under the weather doesn't mean I am. It's true though that seeing Steph going off and be electrifying in front of a large worldwide audience brings a smile to my face. Oh... so that the reason why you're under the weather. Oops!

This is also closer to gaslighting than anything that has happened to Steph

[brackdan70]

You have avoided my question regarding underrating so let me present it again:

Is it reasonable for me to claim that Steph Curry is a greater player than LeBron James?

There is a poster above calling on mods to intervene because I am trolling for stating what he think is a minority view.

Why are you not calling him out?

Of course it is, and that's my point - You have an opinion, and that's fine, but so do other people and you need to accept that.

But to say that Curry is definitively "underrated" because a lot of posters don't agree with your rankings, is just plain silly and wrong, with many reasons already stated.

Because I don't have to respond to every post brother, and I have no inclination to jump into a debate to get Mods involved. Not my jam bro.

I have no problem at all with people not agreeing with me in regard to how highly I think of Curry. I do have a problem though with how stating my opinion draws out accusations of how it is a minority view and because of that I need to keep quiet or that I am trolling.

Is Curry such an unaccomplished and bad player that comparing him to one who is regarded as Top 10 all-time insulting and trolling? If so then yes Curry is being underrated.

Moreover if that is how some people feel then I must question how that is and I point to my original post in this thread as probably providing part of the answer.

I don’t think anyone has a problem with your opinion. But you claimed there is an organized gaslighting campaign against Curry. That’s where people are calling BS.
Like I said earlier there is harmful gaslighting in the world today. This is not it. Don’t be-little the term by mis-using it.

[Revived]

Read on Twitter

[WarriorGM]

Is it reasonable for me to claim that Steph Curry is a greater player than LeBron James?

Is it a reasonable basketball opinion? No. But those are a dime a dozen here; it's not the issue.

The issue is you completely fabricating some grand media gaslighting conspiracy to downplay Curry when it does not exist in any way, shape, or form, and then claiming that your completely fabricated conspiracy is the reason people don't agree with you. It would be extremely insulting if people took you seriously enough to feel insulted. And a lot of what you say just screams delusion and obsession.

Well I disagree and think it is a perfectly reasonable opinion to compare Steph to LeBron. And yes it is the issue.

I'm fabricating stuff? What stuff am I fabricating?

I have given various examples of questionable and downright ridiculous media narratives relating to Steph.

Curry gets the only unanimous MVP in history—and then he is narratively shoved to the side. We keep hearing about the up and coming guy who is going to be the next this and the next that but in Steph we have a player that actually has accomplishments without equal to back up a claim to be the next greatest player. But instead of hyping him up and getting show segments wondering aloud if he could possibly be the next Jordan we get narratives trying to paint him as some supporting player.

Can you explain that?

Curry has often been compared to Lillard by the media. Is that reasonable? Keep in mind Curry has dominated playoffs meeting with Lillard. Steph is 10-0 against Lillard in their playoffs games including a ridiculous sweep where the Blazers were up 17 in three separate games but still lost all of them. It is as dominating as anything LeBronto has going for it perhaps more so since LeBron did lose two games to the Raptors. So why have we been fed Curry = Lillard narratives when people around here would probably be up in arms if it was suggested LeBron = DeRozan or LeBron = Lowry?

Can you explain that?

Or how about the ridiculous clutch narratives that cropped up trying to paint Curry as not clutch? Steph is arguably the most clutch 4th quarter player of the past decade. He has lead his team back from multiple double digit down elimination games to eventually win series, and has a winning record better than nearly everyone to back it up—but he is supposedly not clutch because he didn't have any game winning go ahead shots in the last few seconds of close games?

Can you explain that?

Am I fabricating all of the above? Because if I'm not then let me say that YOU and others like you are the ones engaging in gaslighting not me. So stop with the b******* of acting as if you are being insulted.

[NyKnicks1714]

Is it reasonable for me to claim that Steph Curry is a greater player than LeBron James?

Is it a reasonable basketball opinion? No. But those are a dime a dozen here; it's not the issue.

The issue is you completely fabricating some grand media gaslighting conspiracy to downplay Curry when it does not exist in any way, shape, or form, and then claiming that your completely fabricated conspiracy is the reason people don't agree with you. It would be extremely insulting if people took you seriously enough to feel insulted. And a lot of what you say just screams delusion and obsession.

Well I disagree and think it is a perfectly reasonable opinion to compare Steph to LeBron. And yes it is the issue.

I'm fabricating stuff? What stuff am I fabricating?

I have given various examples of questionable and downright ridiculous media narratives relating to Steph.

Curry gets the only unanimous MVP in history—and then he is narratively shoved to the side. We keep hearing about the up and coming guy who is going to be the next this and the next that but in Steph we have a player that actually has accomplishments without equal to back up a claim to be the next greatest player. But instead of hyping him up and getting show segments wondering aloud if he could possibly be the next Jordan we get narratives trying to paint him as some supporting player.

Can you explain that?

Curry has often been compared to Lillard by the media. Is that reasonable? Keep in mind Curry has dominated playoffs meeting with Lillard. Steph is 10-0 against Lillard in their playoffs games including a ridiculous sweep where the Blazers were up 17 in three separate games but still lost all of them. It is as dominating as anything LeBronto has going for it perhaps more so since LeBron did lose two games to the Raptors. So why have we been fed Curry = Lillard narratives when people around here would probably be up in arms if it was suggested LeBron = DeRozan or LeBron = Lowry?

Can you explain that?

Or how about the ridiculous clutch narratives that cropped up trying to paint Curry as not clutch? Steph is arguably the most clutch 4th quarter player of the past decade. He has lead his team back from multiple double digit down elimination games to eventually win series, and has a winning record better than nearly everyone to back it up—but he is supposedly not clutch because he didn't have any game winning go ahead shots in the last few seconds of close games?

Can you explain that?

Am I fabricating all of the above? Because if I'm not then let me say that YOU and others like you are the ones engaging in gaslighting not me. So stop with the b******* of acting as if you are being insulted.

You're so close

[Iwasawitness]

Is it reasonable for me to claim that Steph Curry is a greater player than LeBron James?

Is it a reasonable basketball opinion? No. But those are a dime a dozen here; it's not the issue.

The issue is you completely fabricating some grand media gaslighting conspiracy to downplay Curry when it does not exist in any way, shape, or form, and then claiming that your completely fabricated conspiracy is the reason people don't agree with you. It would be extremely insulting if people took you seriously enough to feel insulted. And a lot of what you say just screams delusion and obsession.

Well I disagree and think it is a perfectly reasonable opinion to compare Steph to LeBron. And yes it is the issue.

I'm fabricating stuff? What stuff am I fabricating?

I have given various examples of questionable and downright ridiculous media narratives relating to Steph.

Curry gets the only unanimous MVP in history—and then he is narratively shoved to the side. We keep hearing about the up and coming guy who is going to be the next this and the next that but in Steph we have a player that actually has accomplishments without equal to back up a claim to be the next greatest player. But instead of hyping him up and getting show segments wondering aloud if he could possibly be the next Jordan we get narratives trying to paint him as some supporting player.

Can you explain that?

Curry has often been compared to Lillard by the media. Is that reasonable? Keep in mind Curry has dominated playoffs meeting with Lillard. Steph is 10-0 against Lillard in their playoffs games including a ridiculous sweep where the Blazers were up 17 in three separate games but still lost all of them. It is as dominating as anything LeBronto has going for it perhaps more so since LeBron did lose two games to the Raptors. So why have we been fed Curry = Lillard narratives when people around here would probably be up in arms if it was suggested LeBron = DeRozan or LeBron = Lowry?

Can you explain that?

Or how about the ridiculous clutch narratives that cropped up trying to paint Curry as not clutch? Steph is arguably the most clutch 4th quarter player of the past decade. He has lead his team back from multiple double digit down elimination games to eventually win series, and has a winning record better than nearly everyone to back it up—but he is supposedly not clutch because he didn't have any game winning go ahead shots in the last few seconds of close games?

Can you explain that?

Am I fabricating all of the above? Because if I'm not then let me say that YOU and others like you are the ones engaging in gaslighting not me. So stop with the b******* of acting as if you are being insulted.

[WarriorGM]

Is it a reasonable basketball opinion? No. But those are a dime a dozen here; it's not the issue.

The issue is you completely fabricating some grand media gaslighting conspiracy to downplay Curry when it does not exist in any way, shape, or form, and then claiming that your completely fabricated conspiracy is the reason people don't agree with you. It would be extremely insulting if people took you seriously enough to feel insulted. And a lot of what you say just screams delusion and obsession.

Well I disagree and think it is a perfectly reasonable opinion to compare Steph to LeBron. And yes it is the issue.

I'm fabricating stuff? What stuff am I fabricating?

I have given various examples of questionable and downright ridiculous media narratives relating to Steph.

Curry gets the only unanimous MVP in history—and then he is narratively shoved to the side. We keep hearing about the up and coming guy who is going to be the next this and the next that but in Steph we have a player that actually has accomplishments without equal to back up a claim to be the next greatest player. But instead of hyping him up and getting show segments wondering aloud if he could possibly be the next Jordan we get narratives trying to paint him as some supporting player.

Can you explain that?

Curry has often been compared to Lillard by the media. Is that reasonable? Keep in mind Curry has dominated playoffs meeting with Lillard. Steph is 10-0 against Lillard in their playoffs games including a ridiculous sweep where the Blazers were up 17 in three separate games but still lost all of them. It is as dominating as anything LeBronto has going for it perhaps more so since LeBron did lose two games to the Raptors. So why have we been fed Curry = Lillard narratives when people around here would probably be up in arms if it was suggested LeBron = DeRozan or LeBron = Lowry?

Can you explain that?

Or how about the ridiculous clutch narratives that cropped up trying to paint Curry as not clutch? Steph is arguably the most clutch 4th quarter player of the past decade. He has lead his team back from multiple double digit down elimination games to eventually win series, and has a winning record better than nearly everyone to back it up—but he is supposedly not clutch because he didn't have any game winning go ahead shots in the last few seconds of close games?

Can you explain that?

Am I fabricating all of the above? Because if I'm not then let me say that YOU and others like you are the ones engaging in gaslighting not me. So stop with the b******* of acting as if you are being insulted.

You're so close

Yes but look what happened afterward. So now answer the questions. You think that one response of yours is enough?

[NyKnicks1714]

Well I disagree and think it is a perfectly reasonable opinion to compare Steph to LeBron. And yes it is the issue.

I'm fabricating stuff? What stuff am I fabricating?

I have given various examples of questionable and downright ridiculous media narratives relating to Steph.

Curry gets the only unanimous MVP in history—and then he is narratively shoved to the side. We keep hearing about the up and coming guy who is going to be the next this and the next that but in Steph we have a player that actually has accomplishments without equal to back up a claim to be the next greatest player. But instead of hyping him up and getting show segments wondering aloud if he could possibly be the next Jordan we get narratives trying to paint him as some supporting player.

Can you explain that?

Curry has often been compared to Lillard by the media. Is that reasonable? Keep in mind Curry has dominated playoffs meeting with Lillard. Steph is 10-0 against Lillard in their playoffs games including a ridiculous sweep where the Blazers were up 17 in three separate games but still lost all of them. It is as dominating as anything LeBronto has going for it perhaps more so since LeBron did lose two games to the Raptors. So why have we been fed Curry = Lillard narratives when people around here would probably be up in arms if it was suggested LeBron = DeRozan or LeBron = Lowry?

Can you explain that?

Or how about the ridiculous clutch narratives that cropped up trying to paint Curry as not clutch? Steph is arguably the most clutch 4th quarter player of the past decade. He has lead his team back from multiple double digit down elimination games to eventually win series, and has a winning record better than nearly everyone to back it up—but he is supposedly not clutch because he didn't have any game winning go ahead shots in the last few seconds of close games?

Can you explain that?

Am I fabricating all of the above? Because if I'm not then let me say that YOU and others like you are the ones engaging in gaslighting not me. So stop with the b******* of acting as if you are being insulted.

You're so close

Yes but look what happened afterward. So now answer the questions. You think that one response of yours is enough?

...and then he is narratively shoved to the side.

Not remotely, in any way, shape, or form. He's one of the top two most talked about players along with LeBron, by a wide margin, and neither of them are top 5 players anymore. The Warriors had the most National TV games last season, despite not being close to a contender. Why do you think that is? I'll give you a hint, it's not because people wanted to see Klay or Wiggins.

Curry has often been compared to Lillard by the media. Is that reasonable?

Where are these comparisons?? Nobody in their right mind claims that Lillard is as good as Curry. I've seen a lot of nonsense but I've never seen anyone claim that. You're making things up. And I don't even think you're doing it intentionally: I believe you believe these things, but it's delusion. It's not real.

[WarriorGM]

I don’t think anyone has a problem with your opinion. But you claimed there is an organized gaslighting campaign against Curry. That’s where people are calling BS.
Like I said earlier there is harmful gaslighting in the world today. This is not it. Don’t be-little the term by mis-using it.

It's harmful to gaslight? Don't misuse the term?

It is surprising how often I see this when discussing Curry that people come out of the woodwork proclaiming up is down, left is right, black is white.

So here you are gaslighting while warning about the misuse of gaslighting. I must admit this might be a new variation I've come across. But I digress.

Stop with this BS of yours.

[brackdan70]

I don’t think anyone has a problem with your opinion. But you claimed there is an organized gaslighting campaign against Curry. That’s where people are calling BS.
Like I said earlier there is harmful gaslighting in the world today. This is not it. Don’t be-little the term by mis-using it.

It's harmful to gaslight? Don't misuse the term?

It is surprising how often I see this when discussing Curry that people come out of the woodwork proclaiming up is down, left is right, black is white.

So here you are gaslighting while warning about the misuse of gaslighting. I must admit this might be a new variation I've come across. But I digress.

Stop with this BS of yours.

You’ll have to explain to me how I gaslighted you?

[JRoy]

All right so I hear there is an MVP for Olympics Basketball that was dormant but that the media revived. Predictably it goes to LeBron James. Unfortunately by predictably I don't mean that it was because he was the clearcut choice from the actual performances but more in the sense that ahead of time you know that certain movies that fit the Oscar bait mold will likely win the Oscar whatever the merits of the other movies nominated.

Look I get the argument for LeBron's selection and because I do I understand it can come off as petty to criticize it. My initial inclination therefore after rolling my eyes is to quietly move on.

But then I remember something.

This isn't an isolated incident.

Far from it. It is part of what appears to be a consistent pattern.

And the one who is being targeted and disadvantaged is Steph Curry.

I recognized Curry as a special player around 2016. Even after the loss in the finals I projected that he could be a top 5 player all-time. To me it was obvious that the signs were there. That's why I've been mystified ever since that there have been so many expressions of doubt or what I perceived to be low assessments of Steph's impact.

Why is it taking people so long to recognize just how incredible Steph Curry is?

I cannot help but escape the feeling that part of the reason is that the media has been manipulating and perverting opinions about him. Whenever he falls short, they are quick to write him off. Whenever he succeeds, they damn him with faint praise treating him like a precocious child who won a high school science project. And whenever a comparison is to be made they make the most underwhelming one they can get away with.

Case I
The Iguodala FMVP
Probably the most prominent early incident was the 2015 FMVP selection. There was an earlier notable media snub when Curry wasn't selected for an All-NBA team in 2013 but that was perhaps understandable with Curry just emerging as a force on the biggest stage but by the 2015 Finals Curry had just led his team to 67 wins and was named MVP.

Still when his team won, the FMVP was given to Iguodala. Curry looked lackluster and stymied for a lot of the series and a narrative built up that a change in the starting lineup suggested by a video guy to wide-eyed newbie coach Steve Kerr was the key to victory. The feel good story of a democratic team combined with Iguodala being the one guarding LeBron was enough to override the gaping scoring difference between Steph and Andre and the fact Steph exploding in the 4th quarters of the critical games is what sealed the championship win in 6 games. The media was clearly wed to the idea that LeBron was the reason for everything and reasoned that stopping him was all that mattered. Iguodala it is. Steph Curry? Good player but his success this year was probably a blip and he'll fade away and become just another passing season rival for LeBron like Paul George. Oh how wrong they were. But the end result in this case was still Curry's reputation being sacrificed to uphold the narrative that LeBron was unfairly overmatched by a great team effort.

Case II
The Durant FMVPs
After the thrilling but ultimately disappointing 2016 Durant comes to town. Media automatically starts treating KD like he's the best player on the team. Despite Curry having already led his team to a championship. Despite Curry having already led his team to two historic seasons. Despite Curry being the one and only unanimous MVP in NBA history. Despite Curry and the Warriors facing KD and the Thunder the previous year and emerging victorious. For some reason KD's the guy. I like KD. I think he's great. But the way the media was completely ignoring Curry was absolutely bizarre.

KD and the Warriors click. KD and Curry are brilliant together. When it's time to acknowledge them, however, the media instead of acting like journalists when they sold the Iguodala FMVP as a nod to the democratic nature of the team chooses to act like a drama instigator by awarding two FMVPs to KD despite lots and lots of room to take in the big picture that the lopsided finals victories provided. So instead of the story being two great players teaming up to dominate the league, the media story is KD takes over and is the best player. End result is Curry's now being portrayed as some secondary support player in a KD show. Meanwhile LeBron is still sitting pretty because the previous unfairly overmatched narrative is actually reasonable and with the media spotlight on KD the player with the actual best argument against LeBron's supremacy is being obscured.

Case III
MVPs 2017-2022
Curry in 2017 leads what is arguably the greatest NBA team of all-time to a 67-win record. Curry is 6th in MVP voting. What? Okay there are some understandable factors chiefly KD on the same team. But KD missed something like 14 games. Doesn't matter. As long as Curry and KD are together they're pretty much ruled out from MVP consideration. Mind you playing with Wade didn't stop LeBron from becoming MVP in 2012 or 2013 or being top 3 in MVP voting in their inaugural year.

I'll also make a quick note regarding Giannis' and Jokic's two MVPs each during this time. I've heard it argued based mainly on their MVPs that they are close to Steph in terms of career achievements. Sorry but they are still both faaar away. Even Jokic with his three MVPs doesn't yet come close to defining an era the way Steph has impacted his prime years. Steph in 2021 and 2022 presented two contrasting arguments for MVP, Jokic presented the same one. Steph did not get a benefit of the doubt that someone like Magic did.
End result is that even though Steph probably would have clearly overtaken LeBron for most people, media hid that behind Giannis and Jokic talk.

Case IV
The Obvious Debate
There are media talk shows that seem to do nothing but debate basketball. This forum is geared to debating nothing but basketball. So why is it that everyone avoids the most obvious comparison of the last decade in basketball? Namely LeBron vs. Steph.
Part of the reason I think some people are so resistant to accepting Steph as a top 10 player all-time is because it makes the comparison unavoidable. But with Steph entrenching himself ever more firmly in the public imagination as not just the greatest shooter of all-time but a top 10 greatest player of all-time it becomes ever more absurd the way the topic is avoided.

Media is clearly part of the reason this debate really hasn't come to pass. They've kept comparing LeBron to Jordan while comparing Curry to Lillard for as long as they could. How ridiculous is that? It's like comparing LeBron to DeMar DeRozan. But media has popularized such a comparison.

From the above one can see that there has been a pattern of gaslighting people into thinking less of Curry. Now I'm sure there are those who would object. They may accuse me of just being a crazy Curry fan. If only the implications were limited to Curry fandom. But think on it a little more and the implications might start getting wild. If media is gaslighting people about this, what else might they be gaslighting people about?—but that might be too scary to think about.

Curry is a great, great player.

He is nowhere near top 5 all time.

[WarriorGM]

Curry has often been compared to Lillard by the media. Is that reasonable?

Where are these comparisons?? Nobody in their right mind claims that Lillard is as good as Curry. I've seen a lot of nonsense but I've never seen anyone claim that. You're making things up. And I don't even think you're doing it intentionally: I believe you believe these things, but it's delusion. It's not real.

I gave this link earlier. Maybe you missed it.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/30451766/ranking-top-10-nba-players-2020-21

While you are at it look at who comes in number one and number two. Then remember that Steph and KD never came in one and two in any of these lists despite being the two leading what is often seen as the best NBA team of all-time.

[WarriorGM]

I don’t think anyone has a problem with your opinion. But you claimed there is an organized gaslighting campaign against Curry. That’s where people are calling BS.
Like I said earlier there is harmful gaslighting in the world today. This is not it. Don’t be-little the term by mis-using it.

It's harmful to gaslight? Don't misuse the term?

It is surprising how often I see this when discussing Curry that people come out of the woodwork proclaiming up is down, left is right, black is white.

So here you are gaslighting while warning about the misuse of gaslighting. I must admit this might be a new variation I've come across. But I digress.

Stop with this BS of yours.

You’ll have to explain to me how I gaslighted you?

By acting all pious and innocent.

[WarriorGM]

All right so I hear there is an MVP for Olympics Basketball that was dormant but that the media revived. Predictably it goes to LeBron James. Unfortunately by predictably I don't mean that it was because he was the clearcut choice from the actual performances but more in the sense that ahead of time you know that certain movies that fit the Oscar bait mold will likely win the Oscar whatever the merits of the other movies nominated.

Look I get the argument for LeBron's selection and because I do I understand it can come off as petty to criticize it. My initial inclination therefore after rolling my eyes is to quietly move on.

But then I remember something.

This isn't an isolated incident.

Far from it. It is part of what appears to be a consistent pattern.

And the one who is being targeted and disadvantaged is Steph Curry.

I recognized Curry as a special player around 2016. Even after the loss in the finals I projected that he could be a top 5 player all-time. To me it was obvious that the signs were there. That's why I've been mystified ever since that there have been so many expressions of doubt or what I perceived to be low assessments of Steph's impact.

Why is it taking people so long to recognize just how incredible Steph Curry is?

I cannot help but escape the feeling that part of the reason is that the media has been manipulating and perverting opinions about him. Whenever he falls short, they are quick to write him off. Whenever he succeeds, they damn him with faint praise treating him like a precocious child who won a high school science project. And whenever a comparison is to be made they make the most underwhelming one they can get away with.

Case I
The Iguodala FMVP
Probably the most prominent early incident was the 2015 FMVP selection. There was an earlier notable media snub when Curry wasn't selected for an All-NBA team in 2013 but that was perhaps understandable with Curry just emerging as a force on the biggest stage but by the 2015 Finals Curry had just led his team to 67 wins and was named MVP.

Still when his team won, the FMVP was given to Iguodala. Curry looked lackluster and stymied for a lot of the series and a narrative built up that a change in the starting lineup suggested by a video guy to wide-eyed newbie coach Steve Kerr was the key to victory. The feel good story of a democratic team combined with Iguodala being the one guarding LeBron was enough to override the gaping scoring difference between Steph and Andre and the fact Steph exploding in the 4th quarters of the critical games is what sealed the championship win in 6 games. The media was clearly wed to the idea that LeBron was the reason for everything and reasoned that stopping him was all that mattered. Iguodala it is. Steph Curry? Good player but his success this year was probably a blip and he'll fade away and become just another passing season rival for LeBron like Paul George. Oh how wrong they were. But the end result in this case was still Curry's reputation being sacrificed to uphold the narrative that LeBron was unfairly overmatched by a great team effort.

Case II
The Durant FMVPs
After the thrilling but ultimately disappointing 2016 Durant comes to town. Media automatically starts treating KD like he's the best player on the team. Despite Curry having already led his team to a championship. Despite Curry having already led his team to two historic seasons. Despite Curry being the one and only unanimous MVP in NBA history. Despite Curry and the Warriors facing KD and the Thunder the previous year and emerging victorious. For some reason KD's the guy. I like KD. I think he's great. But the way the media was completely ignoring Curry was absolutely bizarre.

KD and the Warriors click. KD and Curry are brilliant together. When it's time to acknowledge them, however, the media instead of acting like journalists when they sold the Iguodala FMVP as a nod to the democratic nature of the team chooses to act like a drama instigator by awarding two FMVPs to KD despite lots and lots of room to take in the big picture that the lopsided finals victories provided. So instead of the story being two great players teaming up to dominate the league, the media story is KD takes over and is the best player. End result is Curry's now being portrayed as some secondary support player in a KD show. Meanwhile LeBron is still sitting pretty because the previous unfairly overmatched narrative is actually reasonable and with the media spotlight on KD the player with the actual best argument against LeBron's supremacy is being obscured.

Case III
MVPs 2017-2022
Curry in 2017 leads what is arguably the greatest NBA team of all-time to a 67-win record. Curry is 6th in MVP voting. What? Okay there are some understandable factors chiefly KD on the same team. But KD missed something like 14 games. Doesn't matter. As long as Curry and KD are together they're pretty much ruled out from MVP consideration. Mind you playing with Wade didn't stop LeBron from becoming MVP in 2012 or 2013 or being top 3 in MVP voting in their inaugural year.

I'll also make a quick note regarding Giannis' and Jokic's two MVPs each during this time. I've heard it argued based mainly on their MVPs that they are close to Steph in terms of career achievements. Sorry but they are still both faaar away. Even Jokic with his three MVPs doesn't yet come close to defining an era the way Steph has impacted his prime years. Steph in 2021 and 2022 presented two contrasting arguments for MVP, Jokic presented the same one. Steph did not get a benefit of the doubt that someone like Magic did.
End result is that even though Steph probably would have clearly overtaken LeBron for most people, media hid that behind Giannis and Jokic talk.

Case IV
The Obvious Debate
There are media talk shows that seem to do nothing but debate basketball. This forum is geared to debating nothing but basketball. So why is it that everyone avoids the most obvious comparison of the last decade in basketball? Namely LeBron vs. Steph.
Part of the reason I think some people are so resistant to accepting Steph as a top 10 player all-time is because it makes the comparison unavoidable. But with Steph entrenching himself ever more firmly in the public imagination as not just the greatest shooter of all-time but a top 10 greatest player of all-time it becomes ever more absurd the way the topic is avoided.

Media is clearly part of the reason this debate really hasn't come to pass. They've kept comparing LeBron to Jordan while comparing Curry to Lillard for as long as they could. How ridiculous is that? It's like comparing LeBron to DeMar DeRozan. But media has popularized such a comparison.

From the above one can see that there has been a pattern of gaslighting people into thinking less of Curry. Now I'm sure there are those who would object. They may accuse me of just being a crazy Curry fan. If only the implications were limited to Curry fandom. But think on it a little more and the implications might start getting wild. If media is gaslighting people about this, what else might they be gaslighting people about?—but that might be too scary to think about.

Curry is a great, great player.

He is nowhere near top 5 all time.

If that's your opinion that's your opinion. I have no problem with that.

My problem is with the unnatural bizarre reaction to Steph's achievements.

[NyKnicks1714]

Curry has often been compared to Lillard by the media. Is that reasonable?

Where are these comparisons?? Nobody in their right mind claims that Lillard is as good as Curry. I've seen a lot of nonsense but I've never seen anyone claim that. You're making things up. And I don't even think you're doing it intentionally: I believe you believe these things, but it's delusion. It's not real.

I gave this link earlier. Maybe you missed it.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/30451766/ranking-top-10-nba-players-2020-21

While you are at it look at who comes in number one and number two. Then remember that Steph and KD never came in one and two in any of these lists despite being the two leading what is often seen as the best NBA team of all-time.

So if I have this right...you're basing this off of a singular ESPN top 10 list from four years ago that was made following a season which Curry missed and in which Lillard averaged 30 & 8 and was All-NBA 2nd Team.

And if you bothered to actually read it:

The issue is availability, as a broken bone in Curry's right hand limited him to five games last season and he missed a combined 44 games the previous two campaigns.

They had him at 8th purely because of his health, not ability.

To call this a massive stretch would be generous. You're finding patterns where they simply do not exist.

[JRoy]

All right so I hear there is an MVP for Olympics Basketball that was dormant but that the media revived. Predictably it goes to LeBron James. Unfortunately by predictably I don't mean that it was because he was the clearcut choice from the actual performances but more in the sense that ahead of time you know that certain movies that fit the Oscar bait mold will likely win the Oscar whatever the merits of the other movies nominated.

Look I get the argument for LeBron's selection and because I do I understand it can come off as petty to criticize it. My initial inclination therefore after rolling my eyes is to quietly move on.

But then I remember something.

This isn't an isolated incident.

Far from it. It is part of what appears to be a consistent pattern.

And the one who is being targeted and disadvantaged is Steph Curry.

I recognized Curry as a special player around 2016. Even after the loss in the finals I projected that he could be a top 5 player all-time. To me it was obvious that the signs were there. That's why I've been mystified ever since that there have been so many expressions of doubt or what I perceived to be low assessments of Steph's impact.

Why is it taking people so long to recognize just how incredible Steph Curry is?

I cannot help but escape the feeling that part of the reason is that the media has been manipulating and perverting opinions about him. Whenever he falls short, they are quick to write him off. Whenever he succeeds, they damn him with faint praise treating him like a precocious child who won a high school science project. And whenever a comparison is to be made they make the most underwhelming one they can get away with.

Case I
The Iguodala FMVP
Probably the most prominent early incident was the 2015 FMVP selection. There was an earlier notable media snub when Curry wasn't selected for an All-NBA team in 2013 but that was perhaps understandable with Curry just emerging as a force on the biggest stage but by the 2015 Finals Curry had just led his team to 67 wins and was named MVP.

Still when his team won, the FMVP was given to Iguodala. Curry looked lackluster and stymied for a lot of the series and a narrative built up that a change in the starting lineup suggested by a video guy to wide-eyed newbie coach Steve Kerr was the key to victory. The feel good story of a democratic team combined with Iguodala being the one guarding LeBron was enough to override the gaping scoring difference between Steph and Andre and the fact Steph exploding in the 4th quarters of the critical games is what sealed the championship win in 6 games. The media was clearly wed to the idea that LeBron was the reason for everything and reasoned that stopping him was all that mattered. Iguodala it is. Steph Curry? Good player but his success this year was probably a blip and he'll fade away and become just another passing season rival for LeBron like Paul George. Oh how wrong they were. But the end result in this case was still Curry's reputation being sacrificed to uphold the narrative that LeBron was unfairly overmatched by a great team effort.

Case II
The Durant FMVPs
After the thrilling but ultimately disappointing 2016 Durant comes to town. Media automatically starts treating KD like he's the best player on the team. Despite Curry having already led his team to a championship. Despite Curry having already led his team to two historic seasons. Despite Curry being the one and only unanimous MVP in NBA history. Despite Curry and the Warriors facing KD and the Thunder the previous year and emerging victorious. For some reason KD's the guy. I like KD. I think he's great. But the way the media was completely ignoring Curry was absolutely bizarre.

KD and the Warriors click. KD and Curry are brilliant together. When it's time to acknowledge them, however, the media instead of acting like journalists when they sold the Iguodala FMVP as a nod to the democratic nature of the team chooses to act like a drama instigator by awarding two FMVPs to KD despite lots and lots of room to take in the big picture that the lopsided finals victories provided. So instead of the story being two great players teaming up to dominate the league, the media story is KD takes over and is the best player. End result is Curry's now being portrayed as some secondary support player in a KD show. Meanwhile LeBron is still sitting pretty because the previous unfairly overmatched narrative is actually reasonable and with the media spotlight on KD the player with the actual best argument against LeBron's supremacy is being obscured.

Case III
MVPs 2017-2022
Curry in 2017 leads what is arguably the greatest NBA team of all-time to a 67-win record. Curry is 6th in MVP voting. What? Okay there are some understandable factors chiefly KD on the same team. But KD missed something like 14 games. Doesn't matter. As long as Curry and KD are together they're pretty much ruled out from MVP consideration. Mind you playing with Wade didn't stop LeBron from becoming MVP in 2012 or 2013 or being top 3 in MVP voting in their inaugural year.

I'll also make a quick note regarding Giannis' and Jokic's two MVPs each during this time. I've heard it argued based mainly on their MVPs that they are close to Steph in terms of career achievements. Sorry but they are still both faaar away. Even Jokic with his three MVPs doesn't yet come close to defining an era the way Steph has impacted his prime years. Steph in 2021 and 2022 presented two contrasting arguments for MVP, Jokic presented the same one. Steph did not get a benefit of the doubt that someone like Magic did.
End result is that even though Steph probably would have clearly overtaken LeBron for most people, media hid that behind Giannis and Jokic talk.

Case IV
The Obvious Debate
There are media talk shows that seem to do nothing but debate basketball. This forum is geared to debating nothing but basketball. So why is it that everyone avoids the most obvious comparison of the last decade in basketball? Namely LeBron vs. Steph.
Part of the reason I think some people are so resistant to accepting Steph as a top 10 player all-time is because it makes the comparison unavoidable. But with Steph entrenching himself ever more firmly in the public imagination as not just the greatest shooter of all-time but a top 10 greatest player of all-time it becomes ever more absurd the way the topic is avoided.

Media is clearly part of the reason this debate really hasn't come to pass. They've kept comparing LeBron to Jordan while comparing Curry to Lillard for as long as they could. How ridiculous is that? It's like comparing LeBron to DeMar DeRozan. But media has popularized such a comparison.

From the above one can see that there has been a pattern of gaslighting people into thinking less of Curry. Now I'm sure there are those who would object. They may accuse me of just being a crazy Curry fan. If only the implications were limited to Curry fandom. But think on it a little more and the implications might start getting wild. If media is gaslighting people about this, what else might they be gaslighting people about?—but that might be too scary to think about.

Curry is a great, great player.

He is nowhere near top 5 all time.

If that's your opinion that's your opinion. I have no problem with that.

My problem is with the unnatural bizarre reaction to Steph's achievements.

Agreed.

Curry is an all time great, a first ballot HOF and the best shooter in nba history.

Maybe some folks cannot appreciate him because that somehow threatens their own favorite all time greats.

[Bad-Thoma]

There is no such thing as gaslighting, that is just a term that is in your head.

[WarriorGM]

There is no such thing as gaslighting, that is just a term that is in your head.

I see what you did there!

[art_tatum]

Lebrons gonna Lebron with Klutch media etc. that's nothing out of the ordinary the guy is trying craft his legacy as the GOAT. Which imo has been very successful on and off the court.

Ofc it is in nike and Addys best interests that curry doesn't get the exposure he does since he is with underarmour.

I don't think there's gaslighting or any conspiracy, but just powerful companies and people seeking to maximize their interests, which is usually not in the interests of curry.

[brackdan70]

It's harmful to gaslight? Don't misuse the term?

It is surprising how often I see this when discussing Curry that people come out of the woodwork proclaiming up is down, left is right, black is white.

So here you are gaslighting while warning about the misuse of gaslighting. I must admit this might be a new variation I've come across. But I digress.

Stop with this BS of yours.

You’ll have to explain to me how I gaslighted you?

By acting all pious and innocent.

Ok. I pointed out that a difference of opinion is not gaslighting. It looks to me like you are claiming gaslighting because your opinion is different than everyone else.
And throughout the thread you are gaslighting others. This is very toxic behavior .
It’s ok, it’s forgivable. It seems you have parts that feel very slighted or not valued…it probably goes deeper than Curry. Maybe you are projecting your feelings as Curry being slighted?