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[mikejames23]

His numbers are GOAT. Truly great.

[DKB333]

His numbers are GOAT. Truly great.

The only player to ever put up a season of 32/5/6 was MJ. SGA is doing it on 53/38/90 splits and is a better defender then the Jorker. I am bias as a Canadian but I hope they end up giving it SGA. His team is 11 games ahead of the Nuggets.

[MarcusBrody]

westbrook would stat pad to get triple doubles by stealing defensive rebounds off free throws, things like that with questionable in-game value. jokic being a 7' hub and his teammates paying off his passing for easy looks? come on.

So for all those 4 years he averaged a triple dub he was just stealing rebounds off missed FTs? The three years when he averaged it at OKC they played Steven Adams at 5 and didn't have a decent PF. The team plan after a shot went up was for Adams to block out and Russ to crash the boards and start the break, which he was very good at.

That last year he averaged a triple dub at WAS idk, never watched them but were a bottom team so stats are infated 100%. It's still impressive though and throwing shade at someone for averaging a triple dub for four years is mad. Especially a PG.

I think it comes down to whether you count it as stat padding if it was somewhat team strategy. The rebounds Russ grabbed in those years were 16-20% contested rebounds and ~80% uncontested. The other people averaging as many or more rebounds were getting 35-50% of their rebounds as contested. I only looked it up for the three OKC years, but in every one of them, Westbrook had the lowest contested rebound percentage of anyone in the Top 50 rebounders, and generally there were only 2 or 3 guys within the 5% of him. The other top rebounders were generally getting double the contested rebounds he was. He also was the single lowest player in deferred rebounds of any Top 50 rebounder in the years I looked at.

When he went to Houston, his contested % when up a bit (to 27%) and his overall rebounds dropped below double digits (~8).

He went to Washignton, contested % dropped again (though not as low as OKC). He wasn't the lowest contested rebounding percentage in the top 50 that year (though he was in the top 30-40). He was only getting 2.6 contested rebounds a game while averaging 11 boards.

I don't think it's necessarily contradictory to say that Westbrook is one of the best guard rebounders we've see, while simultaneously saying that his averaging a triple double is dependent on teammates letting him secure uncontested rebounds in a way that is atypical. Without those free throw rebounds, it likely doesn't happen. But again, if it's team strategy for some other reason (which in OKC it was a least nominally to let them get on the break faster), can you really call it stat-padding? I wouldn't say so.

What he did do at times in OKC that I'd say got close to "stat padding" was leave his man on the perimeter very early to move into rebounding position when he thought a shot went up. It led to him looking like a pretty poor defender at times, when we can see that even now Westbrook can be a pretty good defender when focused on it.

[1993Playoffs]

Kareem’s is a goat candidate , who (like LeBron) was incredible for a stupid amount of time, he needs atleast 10 more years of playing like he has

Kareem rocked it from 70 to 81, for sure. Thereafter, however, it was more about being on the same team as Magic than anything else. His individual performance wasn't anything remarkable compared to his prime. Obviously good, obviously a contributor, but also obviously feeding off of Magic's presence to help extend his relevance and expand his war chest of accolades and achievements. Worth remembering.

His last MVP was in 1980, and he last scored 24+ ppg in 1981. He last averaged 8.8+ rpg in 81 as well and he didn't play more than 33.3 mpg after 1982. Just things to consider. Kareem had a single title and 5 MVPs to his name prior to Magic entering the league.

Jokic is in his 10th season and is absolutely crushing it, and has been for quite a while now. It isn't inappropriate to place him on a comparable level. Certainly peak to peak, that discussion is open. Total career value is something else, for sure, that discussion is becoming rapidly appropriate. If he ever gets HIS Magic Johnson, then things will become very interesting.

I mean yeah. Peak wise you can put him on that level I was talking more career wise. I know Jokic has been great going back 2019ish but he was more of a 20ppg all star level guy, not a great defender either, he took it up a notch in 2023 but I mean it’s Kareem were talking about here. Lol

[Raps in 4]

I'm surprised this is the first time it has ever been done. I was positive Jokic had achieved it multiple times already lol.

[Raps in 4]

His numbers are GOAT. Truly great.

The only player to ever put up a season of 32/5/6 was MJ. SGA is doing it on 53/38/90 splits and is a better defender then the Jorker. I am bias as a Canadian but I hope they end up giving it SGA. His team is 11 games ahead of the Nuggets.

SGA 100% deserves it this season. He's providing the same impact as Jokic, while doing it on a much better team.

Granted, Jokic didn't build his roster, but team tecord has always been the unofficial tiebreaker in MVP voting.

I also feel Luka is a lock to win it over the next 2-3 seasons. This might be SGA's only chance for a.while. Even if he has better seasons than Luka, there is no way the NBA media gives the award to a Canadian in a small market over a Lakers superstar.

[tsherkin]

I mean yeah. Peak wise you can put him on that level I was talking more career wise. I know Jokic has been great going back 2019ish but he was more of a 20ppg all star level guy, not a great defender either, he took it up a notch in 2023 but I mean it’s Kareem were talking about here. Lol

His career isn't done, and Kareem's effort in maintaining himself, his baseline skill and then Magic all coupled together to help him author an incredible career, no doubt. Meantime, Jokic is working on a 5-year run averaging 26.6 ppg, 12.3 rpg, 9.0 apg and shooting 58.6% FG, 38% from 3 and 82.6% at the line. That's 66.3% TS.

It's a worthy conversation.

[NyKnicks1714]

His numbers are GOAT. Truly great.

The only player to ever put up a season of 32/5/6 was MJ. SGA is doing it on 53/38/90 splits and is a better defender then the Jorker. I am bias as a Canadian but I hope they end up giving it SGA. His team is 11 games ahead of the Nuggets.

Are you forgetting some other stat or qualifier? Harden has done it twice, Luka has done it, KD has done it, Tmac has done it.

And Wilt but that's another story

[Special_Puppy]

He's alright

[UglyBugBall]

It’s getting rather tough to keep him out of the top 5 all time already, which probably means he’s already grabbed a seat at the table. Unreal player, normalized being an anomaly.

With 1 title? Pretty easy to keep him out of the top 5. Pretty easy to keep him out of the top 10 too.

He’s above Hakeem, Bird, and Magic for me.

I mean he has a decent case against Hakeem. But Hakeem isn't close to my top 5. He's somewhere in the top 10-15. My closest centers to the top 5 would be Shaq and Duncan (if we consider him a center). I don't think Jokic is anywhere close to those guys yet. Bird/Magic are also significantly ahead right now, I don't really see an argument for Jokic over either of those guys. I could see him potentially ending up in that conversation but he's got a ways to go.

[tsherkin]

The only player to ever put up a season of 32/5/6 was MJ.

Try again?

Jordan did that twice, but so did Harden and Doncic. And Shai is doing it now this year.

KD has done it, Tmac has done it.

And Wilt but that's another story

Meow? Almost. McGrady put up 32.1/6.2/5.7, so he doesn't make that specific marker. Obviously quite close, though. Durant is another narrow miss: 32/7.4/5.5.

Wilt did not manage it. His closest was 36.9/22.3/5.0, and 33.5/24.6/5.2, but he scored 24.1 and 24.3 ppg in the seasons where he averaged 6+ apg.

[NyKnicks1714]

The only player to ever put up a season of 32/5/6 was MJ.

Try again?

Jordan did that twice, but so did Harden and Doncic. And Shai is doing it now this year.

KD has done it, Tmac has done it.

And Wilt but that's another story

Meow? Almost. McGrady put up 32.1/6.2/5.7, so he doesn't make that specific marker. Obviously quite close, though. Durant is another narrow miss: 32/7.4/5.5.

Wilt did not manage it. His closest was 36.9/22.3/5.0, and 33.5/24.6/5.2, but he scored 24.1 and 24.3 ppg in the seasons where he averaged 6+ apg.

Well it depends on what he meant by 5/6. If he specifically meant rebounds and assists respectively then yeah. I was just thinking any combo of 5 and 6.

[tsherkin]

Well it depends on what he meant by 5/6. If he specifically meant rebounds and assists respectively then yeah. I was just thinking any combo of 5 and 6.

Fair, I assumed the usual template, which is PTS/REB/AST, which has largely dominated the sport. But he technically did not specify, that's true.

[MrBigShot]

There is a strong case to be made that Jokic has the 3rd highest peak ever.

[Jasen777]

There is a strong case to be made that Jokic has the 3rd highest peak ever.

He's clearly top 3 post-merger. Harder to judge the players before.

[uncleduck13]

There is a strong case to be made that Jokic has the 3rd highest peak ever.

MJ
Bron
Jokic
Wilt
Hakeem

My top 5

[1993Playoffs]

I mean yeah. Peak wise you can put him on that level I was talking more career wise. I know Jokic has been great going back 2019ish but he was more of a 20ppg all star level guy, not a great defender either, he took it up a notch in 2023 but I mean it’s Kareem were talking about here. Lol

His career isn't done, and Kareem's effort in maintaining himself, his baseline skill and then Magic all coupled together to help him author an incredible career, no doubt. Meantime, Jokic is working on a 5-year run averaging 26.6 ppg, 12.3 rpg, 9.0 apg and shooting 58.6% FG, 38% from 3 and 82.6% at the line. That's 66.3% TS.

It's a worthy conversation.

Yes the magic thing is the elephant in the room. Joker hasn’t played with anything close to a ATG player in their prime.

[facothomas22]

Those numbers are basically unheard of. We hear of system players all of the time, however Jokic is the Nuggets system. He making everything around his teammates a lot easier. I think the only thing that may keep Jokic out of top 10 player of all time discussion is if the Nuggets don't win another Championship while Jokic is still in his prime.

[tsherkin]

Yes the magic thing is the elephant in the room. Joker hasn’t played with anything close to a ATG player in their prime.

It sort of informs the general discourse on player comparisons, though, hey? And how things have evolved since the 70s and 80s compared to now. The change in media coverage has been pretty wild for how players are perceived and all that.

[Yoshun]

Jokic is pretty good.