Shams: Nuggets Fire Malone & Booth

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Re: Shams: Nuggets Fire Malone & Booth 

Post#221 » by scrabbarista » Tue Apr 8, 2025 6:21 pm

KyRo23 wrote:
scrabbarista wrote:
Infinite Llamas wrote:Just crazy to me with so many people saying what a great coach he was…

What exactly had he accomplished until the franchise lucked out into getting a generational all timer in the second round? This is a chicken and the egg scenario. We saw what kind of a coach he was without Jokic for ten minutes a game and it wasn’t pretty.

Jokic made him. It wasn’t the other way around.


Most of the people calling him a great coach were LeBron stans. You pay attention, you notice this stuff nonstop.


Not true :lol:

Go back to the Lakers/Nuggets playoff threads. Most were saying how much Malone was outcoaching LA and how good he was. Laker fans/LeBron fans were actually saying that we had Malone figured out. Seems to be the opposite of what you're saying


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Re: Shams: Nuggest Fire Malone 

Post#222 » by Saints14 » Tue Apr 8, 2025 6:21 pm

GeorgeSears wrote:
levon wrote:
GeorgeSears wrote:
Was, and I definitely wanted this to happen. It was going to be inevitable because they weren't going to win this year and decided to cut bait early.

Malone became too dependent on Jokic in recent years and flat out refused to develop the younger players. He literally said that when Jokic goes to the bench to start the 2nd and 4th Q that he "prays."

Not to defend Malone but that bench is not good and their young players are not that promising. Coaches see these guys in camp and practices and form priors that fans never see.


Malone wanted the team to resign KCP, who is underperforming in Orlando. Some will say it's the "Jokic effect", but KCP took a noticeable step back last season and the writing was on the wall that he wasn't going to match his 2022-2023 productivity.

But that's the whole problem with Malone, he wants to win with veterans and the young players are all on a short leash. The roster construction was problematic, but Malone refused to give it a try.

The bigger reason why he was fired was his dependence on Jokic. When Jokic was off the floor, the team fell off a cliff. That's as much on him, as it is Booth.

It had to be done. He was there for 10 years.


Yeah I think Booth gets too much hate. Is anyone really looking at what Bruce Brown and KCP's contracts and what they've done since leaving Denver and saying the Nuggets should have overpaid to keep them? Moving on from KCP to Braun was 100% the right call, and Brown has been awful, though it would have been great if Booth was able to sign a Divincenzo or Strus to replace him. If you're going to criticize him it should be for the Murray extension, but it's not exactly clear to me how they'd be able to replace him with another star had they not done that.

To me it's really as simple as: they gave up a lot to get Aaron Gordon, and as soon as they did that they put their chips in the Jokic/Murray/MPJ/Gordon core. Injuries robbed that core of 2 playoff runs, it all came together in 2023 during the title run and then ran into a team that was a matchup nightmare for them last year. Jokic being surrounded by subpar talent was more a result of bad injury luck than incompetence in the FO, because once that Gordon trade was made the talent/fit was there for 4-5 years if healthy. But also they were banking on Murray and MPJ continuing to grow as players which they never really did, though I would say that was a good bet to make at the time.
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Re: Shams: Nuggets Fire Malone & Booth 

Post#223 » by KyRo23 » Tue Apr 8, 2025 6:22 pm

Woodsanity wrote:
KyRo23 wrote:
scrabbarista wrote:
Most of the people calling him a great coach were LeBron stans. You pay attention, you notice this stuff nonstop.


Not true :lol:

Go back to the Lakers/Nuggets playoff threads. Most were saying how much Malone was outcoaching LA and how good he was. Laker fans/LeBron fans were actually saying that we had Malone figured out. Seems to be the opposite of what you're saying


Let's be honest. A bowl of rice could outcoach Darvin Ham. Its not some kind of noteworthy feat. I do think Malone is an okish coach overall. Not good not horrible.

Redick is much better than Ham and better than Malone however.


This is true, however, I don't see everyone saying Malone was a bad coach and LeBron fans saying he was amazing. This is just false. I thought he was a good coach from what I have seen, but I'm not seeing the overwhelming Malone being a **** coach from all non Bron fans. I went back to the Lakers/Nuggets series because that's where we saw the most insight on how everyone viewed him as a coach and it was not what the poster above is saying at all
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Re: Shams: Nuggest Fire Malone 

Post#224 » by MarcusBrody » Tue Apr 8, 2025 6:22 pm

Tracymcgoaty wrote:
XTC wrote:Awful move.

Malone is a good coach who became the scapegoat. I'm not even sure any Nuggets fan wanted this to happen either.


Why is it always people who aren't a fan of the team that say things like this?

Literally ever Nuggets fan i've seen on this forum wants him gone. Jokic can only save him for so long.


I would say I'm a Nuggets fan and I didn't want him gone, at least not now.

I think Malone has some weaknesses and is stubborn in his rotation/commitment to vets at times, but overall I didn't think that the Nuggets were poorly coached. A few guys would have their head in the clouds at times, but I never felt like they weren't playing hard.

Of course, like everything else with the Nuggets, though, it's hard to tell how much of that is down to the coach and how much it's down to Jokic, who ensures order every time he's on the court and always plays hard, which sets a tone.

I do think Malone never really figuring out an offense for the non-Jokic minutes that was at least semi-decent is suboptimal coaching. Even when Murray was on the floor with two other starters, they never were really able to put something together that was even a net neutral. I think he trusted too much in Murray's ability to create. I think they needed to switch to a much more structured offense in those minutes. It might limit its upside, but when you have Jokic, you just need not to completely crater in those periods when he's not on.

Malone's biggest recent player development sin in my mind was his use of Zeke Nnaji, who looked promising as a versatile 4, but who Malone desperately tried for almost 2 seasons to make a small ball center, where he just wasn't good. I have no major complaints about the minutes he played Braun, Watson, and Strawther, though. I've thought them appropriate for developing them. Pickett too really, though like many Nuggets fans, I'd like to see more of him.

What I really thought the Nuggets needed was a top class defensive assistant. They started the year playing drop on pick and rolls, but they quickly found that without KCP, none of the Nuggets guards could navigate a screen to save their lives. Braun and Watson are actually pretty good isolation defenders, but still pretty poor at screen navigation. Murray's never been that good. So teams had too much space/time with Jokic dropped. So Malone countered mid year by having Jokic go with the ball handler off the screen and try to keep them from turning the corner until the guard could get through, then rotate back to his man. But that hasn't been super successful either as he isn't super fast and it takes him really far onto the perimeter away from his man if the ball gets out and limits his ability to use his intelligence/hands to play the passing lanes. Could the team have learned to rotate faster if they'd planned to play that way from pre-season? Maybe. They looked a bit faster last game. But I'd love to see a defensive genius assistant and what they'd come up with.

But overall, every team's fans have some complaints about the coach. Nothing that was happening said to me "Change coach now!" with four games before the playoffs and Murray having been out a whole bunch lately and Gordon being in and out and really not looking his previous best, especially on defense (though he has been shooting really well).
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Re: Shams: Nuggets Fire Malone & Booth 

Post#225 » by Tracymcgoaty » Tue Apr 8, 2025 6:22 pm

UcanUwill wrote:
doogie_hauser wrote:Half expecting Mikel Arteta to be fired next from Arsenal (who have the same owners as Denver)


Seeing how Premier teams fire their coaches, I am actually amazed Arteta survived. Arsenal rebuild took some time, they weren't very good for years with Arteta there. But patience paid off at the end.


Arsenal fans hate the Denver owner. They constantly call them out for not improving the team.

Arteta is a good coach. Dude has got his team laying in second place whilst the team has been ravaged by injuries and without a legit striker.

This dude is putting Merino as striker and winning games.
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Re: Shams: Nuggets Fire Malone & Booth 

Post#226 » by Duke4life831 » Tue Apr 8, 2025 6:22 pm

f4p wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
f4p wrote:
Through Hakeems first 10 years, which included 1 title like jokic, he had 1 teammate who finished top 20 in either PER, WS48 or BPM. And it was Kenny smith, who finished exactly 20th in WS48 in 1991 (and wasn't top 30 in the others. )


Did Hakeem come in after Ralph Sampson started his big decline from injuries? I thought they overlapped for 2-3 years before. And they didnt bring in Clyde (who wasnt HOF level, but still made a couple all stars with HOU if I recall right), until pretty damn late right? He came in for that 2nd ring right? Because that 1st ring was like the Dirk ring correct? Too lazy to look it up. But ya even if Hakeem got only like 1 year with a healthy Sampson. Ya thats a good 10+ years of not bringing in legit level talent.


Sampson was drafted the year before Hakeem but his numbers declined literally every year of his career, he might have actually peaked as a rookie. And Clyde joined in year 11.


Ya looked it up right after I sent that because I was curious. And ya it looked like he had 2 full seasons with Ralph, the 1st one when he was still at a pretty high level. That 2nd year, Ralph still played a lot and was pretty good, but ya pretty clear the decline was starting. And that was basically it.

But ya even then, cool for Hakeem he got to play his rookie year with a stud. Then was kind of left on his own for the next decade.
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Re: Shams: Nuggets Fire Malone & Booth 

Post#227 » by LeBronSpaghetti » Tue Apr 8, 2025 6:24 pm

Ambrose wrote:
LeBronSpaghetti wrote:
heatwillbeback wrote:I don’t really care on if the argument could be made to fire him this offseason. That may be there, especially if they had a first round exit.

But 5 games before end of the year? That is absolutely ridiculous, bush league garbage. He deserved the opportunity to finish out this season.

It’s obviously meant to send a message to the players. The culture is rotten in that locker room. Not because they hate each other or anything like that, it’s just a casual, country club, old boys club vibe. And you can’t say that Malone isn’t responsible for at least some of that.

This team has been the great underachieving team of the year. They have the talent to win it all but are nowhere near title contention because they’re mentally weak.


This is literally the opposite of the truth.

The core is essentially exactly the same as it was the last two years. Don’t give me this BS about losing KCP, who has been absolute **** this year by the way. All these posts in this thread complaining about how much MPJ and Jamal make… imagine if they had re-signed KCP? Holy smokes would that have been a disaster.

This team can beat anyone. They have done it. They have tremendous highs where they look incredible, then they have inconceivable lows where they look like the worst team in the league. The locker room culture is casual, the opposite of anything resembling mental toughness. I’m not sure how this is controversial at all.
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Re: Shams: Nuggets Fire Malone & Booth 

Post#228 » by CobraCommander » Tue Apr 8, 2025 6:24 pm

HotRocks34 wrote:
CobraCommander wrote:
HotRocks34 wrote:This is fine, but unless the owners make good hires and spend money on talent, it won't matter IMO.

make this make sense with 5 games to go?


IMO they're conceding the season and trying to get ahead of the backlash, before it hits, when the team flames out in the playoffs.

maybe ...l...but why concede the playoffs when you have the best player on earth?

when you have the best player on earth, are always one injury or suspension away from a ring


the GM tells the owner "we have the wrong coach"..,.then the owner tells the gm "you are right...for once...but we also have the wrong gm"

which leads to this situation - if im jokic...if I didn't orchestrate this, im leaving ASAP.
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Re: Shams: Nuggets Fire Malone & Booth 

Post#229 » by MrGoat » Tue Apr 8, 2025 6:25 pm

Jokic is a coach killer now. Padding his stats to try to put up his Westbrook triple double while playing zero defense for a team that's going nowhere but his stans will never accept it.
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Re: Shams: Nuggets Fire Malone & Booth 

Post#230 » by CallMeKahn » Tue Apr 8, 2025 6:25 pm

Booth I get, but Malone!?
daoneandonly wrote:Utah doesnt have anyhting close value wise to get Dallas to even pick up the phone


Said in reference to Utah's trade assets in a potential Doncic deal.
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Re: Shams: Nuggets Fire Malone & Booth 

Post#231 » by tsherkin » Tue Apr 8, 2025 6:25 pm

Wow. Timing. And I think Malone is probably a big scapegoat here, as many others have noted.

But I really, really can't get over the timing of this. It just makes no sense. And I'm very curious what opinion Jokic holds about this.
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Re: Shams: Nuggets Fire Malone & Booth 

Post#232 » by SkyBill40 » Tue Apr 8, 2025 6:26 pm

Wow. What in the actual hell are the Nuggets doing?
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Re: Shams: Nuggets Fire Malone & Booth 

Post#233 » by Special_Puppy » Tue Apr 8, 2025 6:27 pm

Duke4life831 wrote:Just looking at the roster right now. This has to be the biggest whiff of all time, acquiring talent when having an all time great.

10 years in, Jokic has never played alongside a current All NBA player, let alone a single All Star. And not just that, but 10 years into his career, they have 50% of the cap tied up in Jamal Murray and MPJ.

Like what are we doing here? Look at the players KD has played with. Look at the players Curry has played with. Look at the players LeBron has played with. Look at the players Embiid has played with.

I want to give Jokic props for chilling with 1 team and not being a diva. But at some point I would get it if he says enough is enough. Get me legit talent or trade me.

This is truly embarrassing. Booth definitely deserved to get fired. And if Malone was hand in hand with these decisions, I can get him going (might as well let him finish out the season though). But ya just a complete waste of an all time great talent by the entire front office of this organization. I feel like Aaron Gordon really was the only move during this entire time where I thought to myself, "damn that was a perfect pickup". Outside of that, its been non stop thinking of "what exactly is Denver doing here?"


Nothing beats KG, but yeah its bad lol
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Re: Shams: Nuggets Fire Malone & Booth 

Post#234 » by Archx » Tue Apr 8, 2025 6:28 pm

CobraCommander wrote:
HotRocks34 wrote:
CobraCommander wrote:make this make sense with 5 games to go?


IMO they're conceding the season and trying to get ahead of the backlash, before it hits, when the team flames out in the playoffs.

maybe ...l...but why concede the playoffs when you have the best player on earth?

when you have the best player on earth, are always one injury or suspension away from a ring


the GM tells the owner "we have the wrong coach"..,.then the owner tells the gm "you are right...for once...but we also have the wrong gm"

which leads to this situation - if im jokic...if I didn't orchestrate this, im leaving ASAP.


Looks like ownership think they can't win even with Jokic playing. Otherwise this move doesn't make any sense.
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Re: Shams: Nuggest Fire Malone 

Post#235 » by ConSarnit » Tue Apr 8, 2025 6:28 pm

Saints14 wrote:
GeorgeSears wrote:
levon wrote:Not to defend Malone but that bench is not good and their young players are not that promising. Coaches see these guys in camp and practices and form priors that fans never see.


Malone wanted the team to resign KCP, who is underperforming in Orlando. Some will say it's the "Jokic effect", but KCP took a noticeable step back last season and the writing was on the wall that he wasn't going to match his 2022-2023 productivity.

But that's the whole problem with Malone, he wants to win with veterans and the young players are all on a short leash. The roster construction was problematic, but Malone refused to give it a try.

The bigger reason why he was fired was his dependence on Jokic. When Jokic was off the floor, the team fell off a cliff. That's as much on him, as it is Booth.

It had to be done. He was there for 10 years.


Yeah I think Booth gets too much hate. Is anyone really looking at what Bruce Brown and KCP's contracts and what they've done since leaving Denver and saying the Nuggets should have overpaid to keep them? Moving on from KCP to Braun was 100% the right call, and Brown has been awful, though it would have been great if Booth was able to sign a Divincenzo or Strus to replace him. If you're going to criticize him it should be for the Murray extension, but it's not exactly clear to me how they'd be able to replace him with another star had they not done that.

To me it's really as simple as: they gave up a lot to get Aaron Gordon, and as soon as they did that they put their chips in the Jokic/Murray/MPJ/Gordon core. Injuries robbed that core of 2 playoff runs, it all came together in 2023 during the title run and then ran into a team that was a matchup nightmare for them last year. Jokic being surrounded by subpar talent was more a result of bad injury luck than incompetence in the FO, because once that Gordon trade was made the talent/fit was there for 4-5 years if healthy. But also they were banking on Murray and MPJ continuing to grow as players which they never really did, though I would say that was a good bet to make at the time.


Murray extension is terrible. Nnaji is dead money. Saric is dead money. You hand out enough bad contracts and it starts to cost you elsewhere.
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Re: Shams: Nuggets Fire Malone & Booth 

Post#236 » by Marvin Martian » Tue Apr 8, 2025 6:29 pm

I think DEN needs to seriously consider trading Jokic. There is no realistic path to retool around Jokic with Murray and MPJ taking up cap space for at least the next 3 years.

Sure you may not ever draft a player as good as Jokic, but championships are won by the best team not the best player.
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Re: Shams: Nuggets Fire Malone & Booth 

Post#237 » by JXL » Tue Apr 8, 2025 6:29 pm

SkyBill40 wrote:Wow. What in the actual hell are the Nuggets doing?


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Re: Shams: Nuggets Fire Malone & Booth 

Post#238 » by Special_Puppy » Tue Apr 8, 2025 6:29 pm

LeBronSpaghetti wrote:Malone always wanted to be a Popovich type coach. One franchise, multiple chips, one of the goat coaches all time with one of the goat big men of all time.

Problem is he did more talking about that than executing. I like Malone and think he’s a good coach, but he had some major mistakes and the defense/bench was simply inexcusable.


Its a talent issue. Not coaching. Malone and his coaching staff were some of the best in the league
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Re: Shams: Nuggets Fire Malone & Booth 

Post#239 » by Rafael122 » Tue Apr 8, 2025 6:30 pm

If you fire the GM, the clock starts on whether the new GM keeps Malone, so they took them both out. Horrific timing, but I see it.

This is also another reason why if you're a team like Denver who has multiple players making $30 million+, it's best to hit on your late first round picks. Here are his first round picks from when he took over the GM job:

2020 - Zeke Nnaji, traded for RJ Hampton. Players within their range: Jaden McDaniels, Desmond Bane, Immanuel Quickley, Payton Pritchard

2021 - Bones Hyland. Players within their range: Cam Thomas, Santi Aldama, Miles McBride, Herbert Jones, Ayo Donsunmu, Aaron Wiggins.

2022 - looks like Braun hit. Peyton Watson is TBD.

Just right there, 5 first round picks....1 rotational guy and another TBD. Hampton and Bones aren't even on the team anymore and Zeke is trade filler. You gotta hit on these dudes to complement the high salary players and they haven't done it.
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Re: Shams: Nuggets Fire Malone & Booth 

Post#240 » by Froob » Tue Apr 8, 2025 6:30 pm

On an unrelated note, Dan Hurley was never taking that Lakers job, right? You’d be crazy to walk away from a great situation in college for the NBA.
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