Post Mortem #23 - Cleveland Cavaliers

[DowJones]

Giannis is better than Mobley but for how many more years? 7 year age difference. We have no idea when Giannis' prime will end (he could have another 4 prime years, or we could start seeing his athleticism fade as soon as the season after next.) Mobley is 23, had 2-3 more seasons before his prime even starts, and just busted out as an all-NBA level player.

Trades ideas like this remind me of Kawhi wanting to play with Paul George instead of Pascal Siakam or Shai Gilegous-Alexander, and the Clippers making it so. At the time, Paul George had just come 3rd in MVP and DPOY voting. He was way better than Siakam or Shai. Even back then though, I remember thinking: for how long? It ended up being... arguably zero time. Siakam outplayed him the very next season, and the season after that, Shai started flashing his future MVP potential.

The question is: do you want to go all-in on a 3- to 4-year window, or take a more cautious approach that keeps the team competitive—not necessarily title contenders, but playoff-caliber—after Mitchell begins to decline? I think that decline could be fairly dramatic, given his play style, size, and the physical toll his game takes on his body. If it were up to me, I'd rather take the big swing now and then enter a traditional rebuild in four years, once we regain access to our draft picks.

Mitchell (28)
Strus (29)
Hunter (27)
Giannis (30)
Allen (27)

I think that is a very good starting 5, and I believe this gives the Cavaliers a legitimate 4-year window to win a title. This team is immediately the favorite to reach the finals in the East.

I don’t know what part of this is so hard for people like yourself to understand, but the Cavs CAN’T TRADE FOR GIANNIS. It is literally not possible. And even if it was, we probably still wouldn’t do it, and we sure as hell wouldn’t give up Mobley to make it happen. It’s a terrible idea.

You are wrong. Humble yourself. Your post was far too wrong for you to be this condescending.

It’s entirely unlikely that the Cavs trade for Giannis, but grow up. This is a message board. Don’t take this so seriously.

[jbk1234]

This board says everyone is untouchable. There can only be a few MVP tier players in the league. There’s a big cost to acquiring such a player

Giannis is better than Mobley but for how many more years? 7 year age difference. We have no idea when Giannis' prime will end (he could have another 4 prime years, or we could start seeing his athleticism fade as soon as the season after next.) Mobley is 23, had 2-3 more seasons before his prime even starts, and just busted out as an all-NBA level player.

Trades ideas like this remind me of Kawhi wanting to play with Paul George instead of Pascal Siakam or Shai Gilegous-Alexander, and the Clippers making it so. At the time, Paul George had just come 3rd in MVP and DPOY voting. He was way better than Siakam or Shai. Even back then though, I remember thinking: for how long? It ended up being... arguably zero time. Siakam outplayed him the very next season, and the season after that, Shai started flashing his future MVP potential.

The question is: do you want to go all-in on a 3- to 4-year window, or take a more cautious approach that keeps the team competitive—not necessarily title contenders, but playoff-caliber—after Mitchell begins to decline? I think that decline could be fairly dramatic, given his play style, size, and the physical toll his game takes on his body. If it were up to me, I'd rather take the big swing now and then enter a traditional rebuild in four years, once we regain access to our draft picks.

Mitchell (28)
Strus (29)
Hunter (27)
Giannis (30)
Allen (27)

I think that is a very good starting 5, and I believe this gives the Cavaliers a legitimate 4-year window to win a title. This team is immediately the favorite to reach the finals in the East.

Where are you getting 3-4 years from? Neither Giannis nor Mitchell are under contract for that long.

[jbk1234]

If the Cavs think that internal development is the best path forward then they should stick to that

But the notion that Wemby, Amen, Mobley, Chet, etc are all untouchable seems a little silly when what’s at stake is a player that immediately puts a team into title contention or the odds on favorites depending on roster. Possibly even immediate dynasty territory if we’re talking specifically about OKC

Are all of these young blue chip prospects going to be MVP caliber? Probably not

Mobley and Wemby shouldn't be grouped in with the other two IMO. Mobley has already won DPOY, at 23, while posting a hair under 20 and 10 on offense.

Also, he's under contract for 5 more years, versus two for Giannis, and the Cavs owe five years of picks to the Jazz.

Mobley is so much closer to Chet than he is to Wemby in terms of value. I put Mobley well below Wemby in terms of value, but above both Chet and Amen.

Suffice to say we have different evaluations of Mobley. Given the jump he just made at 23, I don't know where your confidence comes from that he's at his peak.

[ConSarnit]

This board says everyone is untouchable. There can only be a few MVP tier players in the league. There’s a big cost to acquiring such a player

They aren’t trading Mobley. And if they did, it would be stupid.

If the Cavs think that internal development is the best path forward then they should stick to that

But the notion that Wemby, Amen, Mobley, Chet, etc are all untouchable seems a little silly when what’s at stake is a player that immediately puts a team into title contention or the odds on favorites depending on roster. Possibly even immediate dynasty territory if we’re talking specifically about OKC

Are all of these young blue chip prospects going to be MVP caliber? Probably not

Wemby is the most untouchable player in the league. It’s laughable to think the Spurs would trade him in any situation.

If you’re implying the Spurs would consider trading Wemby for Giannis you’ve lost the plot. That would never happen.

[Iwasawitness]

The question is: do you want to go all-in on a 3- to 4-year window, or take a more cautious approach that keeps the team competitive—not necessarily title contenders, but playoff-caliber—after Mitchell begins to decline? I think that decline could be fairly dramatic, given his play style, size, and the physical toll his game takes on his body. If it were up to me, I'd rather take the big swing now and then enter a traditional rebuild in four years, once we regain access to our draft picks.

Mitchell (28)
Strus (29)
Hunter (27)
Giannis (30)
Allen (27)

I think that is a very good starting 5, and I believe this gives the Cavaliers a legitimate 4-year window to win a title. This team is immediately the favorite to reach the finals in the East.

I don’t know what part of this is so hard for people like yourself to understand, but the Cavs CAN’T TRADE FOR GIANNIS. It is literally not possible. And even if it was, we probably still wouldn’t do it, and we sure as hell wouldn’t give up Mobley to make it happen. It’s a terrible idea.

You are wrong. Humble yourself. Your post was far too wrong for you to be this condescending.

It’s entirely unlikely that the Cavs trade for Giannis, but grow up. This is a message board. Don’t take this so seriously.

No, I am not wrong. It is literally not possible. Cannot happen. There’s no possible way for a Giannis trade to work.

And again, if there was, it’d be a dumb idea.

[robbie84]

They gonna run it back? Injuries were their issue.

[DowJones]

Giannis is better than Mobley but for how many more years? 7 year age difference. We have no idea when Giannis' prime will end (he could have another 4 prime years, or we could start seeing his athleticism fade as soon as the season after next.) Mobley is 23, had 2-3 more seasons before his prime even starts, and just busted out as an all-NBA level player.

Trades ideas like this remind me of Kawhi wanting to play with Paul George instead of Pascal Siakam or Shai Gilegous-Alexander, and the Clippers making it so. At the time, Paul George had just come 3rd in MVP and DPOY voting. He was way better than Siakam or Shai. Even back then though, I remember thinking: for how long? It ended up being... arguably zero time. Siakam outplayed him the very next season, and the season after that, Shai started flashing his future MVP potential.

The question is: do you want to go all-in on a 3- to 4-year window, or take a more cautious approach that keeps the team competitive—not necessarily title contenders, but playoff-caliber—after Mitchell begins to decline? I think that decline could be fairly dramatic, given his play style, size, and the physical toll his game takes on his body. If it were up to me, I'd rather take the big swing now and then enter a traditional rebuild in four years, once we regain access to our draft picks.

Mitchell (28)
Strus (29)
Hunter (27)
Giannis (30)
Allen (27)

I think that is a very good starting 5, and I believe this gives the Cavaliers a legitimate 4-year window to win a title. This team is immediately the favorite to reach the finals in the East.

Where are you getting 3-4 years from? Neither Giannis nor Mitchell are under contract for that long.

This is a dumb question.

[JujitsuFlip]

They gonna run it back? Injuries were their issue.

Yup. Run it back, most likely without Jerome or Merrill.

[DowJones]

Mobley and Wemby shouldn't be grouped in with the other two IMO. Mobley has already won DPOY, at 23, while posting a hair under 20 and 10 on offense.

Also, he's under contract for 5 more years, versus two for Giannis, and the Cavs owe five years of picks to the Jazz.

Mobley is so much closer to Chet than he is to Wemby in terms of value. I put Mobley well below Wemby in terms of value, but above both Chet and Amen.

Suffice to say we have different evaluations of Mobley. Given the jump he just made at 23, I don't know where your confidence comes from that he's at his peak.

This isn't about whether Mobley has reached his peak—it's about the overall value of Mobley versus Wemby. As a Cleveland homer, I can still admit Mobley just isn’t on Wemby's level when it comes to value. Think about what you are taking issue with. I have Mobley ahead of Chet and Amen, but well behind Wemby. That isn't a hot take.

[jbk1234]

The question is: do you want to go all-in on a 3- to 4-year window, or take a more cautious approach that keeps the team competitive—not necessarily title contenders, but playoff-caliber—after Mitchell begins to decline? I think that decline could be fairly dramatic, given his play style, size, and the physical toll his game takes on his body. If it were up to me, I'd rather take the big swing now and then enter a traditional rebuild in four years, once we regain access to our draft picks.

Mitchell (28)
Strus (29)
Hunter (27)
Giannis (30)
Allen (27)

I think that is a very good starting 5, and I believe this gives the Cavaliers a legitimate 4-year window to win a title. This team is immediately the favorite to reach the finals in the East.

Where are you getting 3-4 years from? Neither Giannis nor Mitchell are under contract for that long.

This is a dumb question.

It's a two-year window unless or until Giannis agrees to extend and I'm guessing that a guy who's never tested free agency, who may see his own window closing, may not agree to extend immediately after getting traded. Both he and Mitchell would have player options for the 27-28 season.

[Pantsman]

I don’t know what part of this is so hard for people like yourself to understand, but the Cavs CAN’T TRADE FOR GIANNIS. It is literally not possible. And even if it was, we probably still wouldn’t do it, and we sure as hell wouldn’t give up Mobley to make it happen. It’s a terrible idea.

You are wrong. Humble yourself. Your post was far too wrong for you to be this condescending.

It’s entirely unlikely that the Cavs trade for Giannis, but grow up. This is a message board. Don’t take this so seriously.

No, I am not wrong. It is literally not possible. Cannot happen. There’s no possible way for a Giannis trade to work.

And again, if there was, it’d be a dumb idea.

Yes it is possible. But Cleveland would need to send out more players to clear up cap space to get under the second apron.

[Chokic]

The idea that OKC can just keep all their best assets and get a player that gives them dynasty potential is ridiculous. I think you’ve allowed yourself to be warped by small market bias.

It’s equally ridiculous to say Mobley is off the table for someone like Giannis. Giannis instantly becomes the best player on the Cavs for at least a 3 year run. Championships are extremely hard to get. You almost exclusively win a title by having a top 3 player in the league.

The Cavs can't even trade for Giannis without first salary dumping one of Garland, Mitchell, or Hunter to get out of the 2nd apron.

Then that also means Jerome and Merrill probably can't be re-signed.

Soooo

I am not sure a team of the below is better than their current setup. Given injuries have been the Cavs main road block for 4 consecutive post seasons.

Mitchell/Craig Porter Jr/pick #58
Strus/Okoro
Hunter/Tyson
Giannis/Wade/Okeke
Allen/pick #49/Diop?

Not to mention the Cavs owe their next 5 first rounders to the Jazz, so could only add their first in 2031 to Mobley.

The Cavs main issue is Mitchell would be far more deadly in a Jamal Murray role. Mobley is never going to be that guy to relieve Mitchell from #1 option duties.

Mitchell is a top 10 player in the league. There's not many players in the league where he would be playing a robin role. If Jimmy butler who was a top 13-15 player at best can carry the heat to two finals appearances Mitchell certainly can. This cavs team is extremely talented. They just got to stay healthy in the post season.

[GiannisAnte34]

The Cavs can't even trade for Giannis without first salary dumping one of Garland, Mitchell, or Hunter to get out of the 2nd apron.

Then that also means Jerome and Merrill probably can't be re-signed.

Soooo

I am not sure a team of the below is better than their current setup. Given injuries have been the Cavs main road block for 4 consecutive post seasons.

Mitchell/Craig Porter Jr/pick #58
Strus/Okoro
Hunter/Tyson
Giannis/Wade/Okeke
Allen/pick #49/Diop?

Not to mention the Cavs owe their next 5 first rounders to the Jazz, so could only add their first in 2031 to Mobley.

The Cavs main issue is Mitchell would be far more deadly in a Jamal Murray role. Mobley is never going to be that guy to relieve Mitchell from #1 option duties.

Mitchell is a top 10 player in the league. There's not many players in the league where he would be playing a robin role. If Jimmy butler who was a top 13-15 player at best can carry the heat to two finals appearances Mitchell certainly can. This cavs team is extremely talented. They just got to stay healthy in the post season.

Is the goal a Finals appearance? The Heat eventually looked outclassed every time they made a surprising run

[Iwasawitness]

You are wrong. Humble yourself. Your post was far too wrong for you to be this condescending.

It’s entirely unlikely that the Cavs trade for Giannis, but grow up. This is a message board. Don’t take this so seriously.

No, I am not wrong. It is literally not possible. Cannot happen. There’s no possible way for a Giannis trade to work.

And again, if there was, it’d be a dumb idea.

Yes it is possible. But Cleveland would need to send out more players to clear up cap space to get under the second apron.

I don’t think that’s how it works, Cavs can’t trade anyone until after they’re officially under the second apron, and at that point they can only make trades via matching salaries. Either way, trading Mobley for Giannis would be stupid.

[Chokic]

The Cavs main issue is Mitchell would be far more deadly in a Jamal Murray role. Mobley is never going to be that guy to relieve Mitchell from #1 option duties.

Mitchell is a top 10 player in the league. There's not many players in the league where he would be playing a robin role. If Jimmy butler who was a top 13-15 player at best can carry the heat to two finals appearances Mitchell certainly can. This cavs team is extremely talented. They just got to stay healthy in the post season.

Is the goal a Finals appearance? The Heat eventually looked outclassed every time they made a surprising run

Certainly not. But this cavs team is more talented than those heat teams. Their ceiling is higher imo. Mobley is the x factor. If he can reach his potential(which i believe he can) the cavs can win a championship.