2023 Western Conference Finals | (1) Denver Nuggets VS (7) Los Angeles Lakers (DEN leads 3-0)

[nikster]

Other thread was locked. Without Murray, Jokic doesn’t get exposed in playoffs. It’s that he needs wings and guards to advance in the playoffs.

Slovenian asked me what Denver would do vs Boston or Miami since they don’t have elite center offensive players.

The hypothetical answer it won’t matter if Jokic Averages 40/15/10 in finals if he doesn’t have good guard or wing play from Murray. If Murray doesn’t go off for 37 (30 in first half). Denver doesn’t win game 3. Denver doesn’t win game 2 either without Murray going off in the 4th quarter.

Murray doesn't win tonight without Jokic scoring in the 4th.

You haven't proven that Jokic needs guard play, just that he needs help like everyone in league history. He's a centre, of course the players surrounding him will be wings and guards

[Blame Rasho]

MVP Jokic 4-14

14 4th quarter points.

Keep clowning tho, I thoroughly enjoy watching you be so wrong about Jokic all the time

The clown should stop posting after his stupid thread he made with this opening post.

And Will Embiid finally break through? As great Jokic is offensively, he cannot be trusted to guard or slow down any competent offensive player. Meanwhile, Embiid has the team around him. Its up to him to finally deliver and get out of the East as the best two way center in the game.

Watch on YouTube

Nuggets should be thankful these two teams are in seperate conferences becauses Embiid would cook him in any match up. Embiid made him look like a bench player.

Just walk away… but I guess he is still crying about embiids last game this season.

[Bergmaniac]

Huge credit to the Nuggets for not folding when things got tough. Jokic on the bench due to BS calls, Murray's hot shooting dried up as expected in the second half, but they found a way to get buckets from their other players and hold their own defensively in the 3rd. Then in the 4th Jokic stepped up offensively, the defense was fantastic, Malone stuck till the end with the Jeff Green and Brown lineup which worked very well and they got a well deserved W. They committed only 5 turnovers all game which is always impressive but in a such a crucial away game is just incredible.

D'Lo has had an historically terrible series, he is averaging 7/4, his jumper has looked like Westbrook's on a bad day, he's gotten to the line 4 times in total and he's been getting abused on defense bt every Denver player they have tried to hide him on. And his impact stats are mindboggling - the Lakers have a -31.9 with him on the court and +21.6 with him on the bench. That's a -53.5 on/off swing, historic staff for a player who plays major minutes.

[EmpireFalls]

Denver has made a ridiculous 46 3s at a 41% clip

Don’t downplay that.

the vast majority of their shots have been open and the contested ones are taken by their best shooters, from their best spots. during the rs (and they weren't trying their hardest all season long) they had about 12 3's a game at a 38% clip

last two games the Lakers have been loading up on Jokic, rewatch the game he was crowded by two and sometimes even 3 or 4 Lakers circling around him - that means shooters are open and Jokic is gonna find them

it's pick your poison with these Nuggets unless you have someone who can (somewhat) contain Jokic one on one, which the Lakers don't

so maybe if they're not guarding him with 3 players, Nuggets have a few less threes and shoot a lil worse % but Jokic scores more inside and with higher efficiency

you're trying to act\imply as if the Nuggets are dismantling the Lakers because of some hot streaky shooting - that hasn't been the case at all, you must have watched a different series if that's what u were seeing

Not at all what I’m saying.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

He's a MUCH better passer this year and he's played better defense too. Sure the teammates make up most of the difference, but he's still significantly better this season.

His regular season and playoff production is exactly the same as last year.

- Warriors won 53 games last year and 44 games this year; SRS = 5.52 last year, SRS this year = 1.66

- Phoenix won 64 games last year and 45 games this year; SRS = 6.94 last year, SRS this year = 2.08

- Memphis won 56 games last years and 51 games this year; SRS = 5.37 last year, SRS this year = 3.60

- Dallas won 52 games last year and 38 games this year; SRS = 3.12 last year, SRS this year = -0.14

- Denver won 48 games last year and 53 games this year; SRS = 2.16 last year, SRS this year = 3.04

- Lakers won 33 games last year and 43 games this year; SRS = -3.08 last year, SRS this year = 0.43


I know this is hard for you to understand but the Nuggets improved slightly and the rest of the West got worse and the Lakers shouldn't have even made the playoffs.....

I agree, it seems it's very hard for you to understand, if you really think the Nuggets improved "slightly"

[Mickey8]

Other thread was locked. Without Murray, Jokic doesn’t get exposed in playoffs. It’s that he needs wings and guards to advance in the playoffs.

Slovenian asked me what Denver would do vs Boston or Miami since they don’t have elite center offensive players.

The hypothetical answer it won’t matter if Jokic Averages 40/15/10 in finals if he doesn’t have good guard or wing play from Murray. If Murray doesn’t go off for 37 (30 in first half). Denver doesn’t win game 3. Denver doesn’t win game 2 either without Murray going off in the 4th quarter.

Embad had guards . Are you aware that Harden was the MVP of the league at one point , he was leading the league in assists this season and yet Embad was useless in the play off's, Embiid had Jimmy Butler as the teammate and again he was useless in the play off's . Jokic never had teammates of that caliber. Your attempts to diminish Jokic's impact on Denver Nuggets team are ridiculous. The Lakers have changed entire defensive strategy because of Jokic, which have given more space to Murray to operate.

[kuclas]

Other thread was locked. Without Murray, Jokic doesn’t get exposed in playoffs. It’s that he needs wings and guards to advance in the playoffs.

Slovenian asked me what Denver would do vs Boston or Miami since they don’t have elite center offensive players.

The hypothetical answer it won’t matter if Jokic Averages 40/15/10 in finals if he doesn’t have good guard or wing play from Murray. If Murray doesn’t go off for 37 (30 in first half). Denver doesn’t win game 3. Denver doesn’t win game 2 either without Murray going off in the 4th quarter.

Murray doesn't win tonight without Jokic scoring in the 4th.

You haven't proven that Jokic needs guard play, just that he needs help like everyone in league history. He's a centre, of course the players surrounding him will be wings and guards

He’s got a pretty well paid power forward in Aaron Gordon. He had Gordon the last 2 playoffs and that didn’t
Help him.

Denver and Jokic fans are in denial in what I’m saying. Jokic needs perimeter scoring help. That’s what the nba playoffs are all about the last 20-25 years. With shaq , Duncan.

Only true center to lead team without much help likely was Hakeem in 1994 (Hakeem had aging Clyde in 1995)

[Mickey8]

Other thread was locked. Without Murray, Jokic doesn’t get exposed in playoffs. It’s that he needs wings and guards to advance in the playoffs.

Slovenian asked me what Denver would do vs Boston or Miami since they don’t have elite center offensive players.

The hypothetical answer it won’t matter if Jokic Averages 40/15/10 in finals if he doesn’t have good guard or wing play from Murray. If Murray doesn’t go off for 37 (30 in first half). Denver doesn’t win game 3. Denver doesn’t win game 2 either without Murray going off in the 4th quarter.

Murray doesn't win tonight without Jokic scoring in the 4th.

You haven't proven that Jokic needs guard play, just that he needs help like everyone in league history. He's a centre, of course the players surrounding him will be wings and guards

He’s got a pretty well paid power forward in Aaron Gordon. He had Gordon the last 2 playoffs and that didn’t
Help him.

Denver and Jokic fans are in denial in what I’m saying. Jokic needs perimeter scoring help. That’s what the nba playoffs are all about the last 20-25 years. With shaq , Duncan.

Only true center to lead team without much help likely was Hakeem in 1994 (Hakeem had aging Clyde in 1995)

You are ridiculous man Hakim needed perimeter scoring of Maxwell,Smith,Cassell ,Horry,Drexler. Actually Jokic is comparable to Hakim , for the play off run he's having this season. Hakim prefers Jokic over Embiid, because he see himself in Jokic. How Jokic is leading his team.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

These Nuggets are way better than those Rockets.

[Infinite Llamas]

Other thread was locked. Without Murray, Jokic doesn’t get exposed in playoffs. It’s that he needs wings and guards to advance in the playoffs.

Slovenian asked me what Denver would do vs Boston or Miami since they don’t have elite center offensive players.

The hypothetical answer it won’t matter if Jokic Averages 40/15/10 in finals if he doesn’t have good guard or wing play from Murray. If Murray doesn’t go off for 37 (30 in first half). Denver doesn’t win game 3. Denver doesn’t win game 2 either without Murray going off in the 4th quarter.

Murray doesn't win tonight without Jokic scoring in the 4th.

You haven't proven that Jokic needs guard play, just that he needs help like everyone in league history. He's a centre, of course the players surrounding him will be wings and guards

He’s got a pretty well paid power forward in Aaron Gordon. He had Gordon the last 2 playoffs and that didn’t
Help him.

Denver and Jokic fans are in denial in what I’m saying. Jokic needs perimeter scoring help. That’s what the nba playoffs are all about the last 20-25 years. With shaq , Duncan.

Only true center to lead team without much help likely was Hakeem in 1994 (Hakeem had aging Clyde in 1995)

Bringing Aaron Gordon in as evidence is an argument ender. Dude got benched last night in the clutch for Jeff Green. How much Gordon is paid is immaterial.

If Jokic wins, it is similar to Hakeem in 1993-94. Murray/Gordon/KCP/Brown similar to Thorpe/Jet/Mad ‘ax/Cassell/Horry.

[Exp0sed]

Other thread was locked. Without Murray, Jokic doesn’t get exposed in playoffs. It’s that he needs wings and guards to advance in the playoffs.

Slovenian asked me what Denver would do vs Boston or Miami since they don’t have elite center offensive players.

The hypothetical answer it won’t matter if Jokic Averages 40/15/10 in finals if he doesn’t have good guard or wing play from Murray. If Murray doesn’t go off for 37 (30 in first half). Denver doesn’t win game 3. Denver doesn’t win game 2 either without Murray going off in the 4th quarter.

Embad had guards . Are you aware that Harden was the MVP of the league at one point , he was leading the league in assists this season and yet Embad was useless in the play off's, Embiid had Jimmy Butler as the teammate and again he was useful in the play off's . Jokic never had teammates of that caliber. Your attempts to diminish Jokic's impact on Denver Nuggets team are ridiculous. The Lakers have changed entire defensive strategy because of Jokic, which have given more space to Murray to operate.

right on
Embiid had great guards almost every season in the playoffs

Harden and Maxey next to the Joker would be carving these Lakers up like butter

Jokic creates the elite guard play that you claim is needed for them to be succesfull
that's how the game works, especially nowadays - ofc you need that contribution from the wings but Jokic's gravity of offense, along with his immense i.q and goat passing is the entire Denver system.

sure, Murray uses the gravity of Jokic extremely well and he's def got mad skills and shotmaking ability but let's not get carried away, the two-man game is so effective because of Nikola Jokic.

Murray has never played without Jokic, say he gets traded to a different team whose to say he won't be "exposed" himself?

Jokic has played without Murray, but not the other way around

this with Jokic is that he's at his best when he's making most of the decisions, he's basically dicating who will shoot, looking for certain players in certain spots in one time and for others in another. rotating between everyone making sure everyone is well "fed" and thus engaged while hunting mismatches and defensive lapses, while probing, surveying and reading the play - he makes the right play a vast majority of the time. that's invaluable..

so many guards in the league would look insanely good next to the Joker in this system

passing\court vision might be the most underrated skill in basketball
except for guys who were truly exceptional at something else (Shaq!), look at the atg list and see how many of those guys are sub-par passers for their position and how many of the total 75, were great passers

passing at a high level is important to winning games and championships and 1 awesome passer, who gets alot of touches can create high level offense for everyone

Jokic should be in the convo for best PG ever

[Mickey8]

No, they are not. Horry and Thorpe were better players than Gordon and Green , Drexler was the better player than Murray,Cassell and Maxwell were better players than KCP and Brown etc. The Rockets had better supporting cast and its not even close. Those Rockets teams were very deep.

[kuclas]

No, they are not. Horry and Thorpe were better players than Gordon and Green , Drexler was the better player than Murray,Cassell and Maxwell were better player than KCP and Brown etc. The Rockets had better supporting cast and is not even close. Houston Rockets were deep team.

Its funny how Denver/Jokic fans downgrade nuggets own player except for Jokic. And elevate other teams players.

Without playoff Murray. Denver isn’t advancing. It’s a simple fact. No matter what Jokic does. MPJ is meh so losing him isn’t a big deal. But losing playoff Murray makes a world of difference. That’s really the difference in the 2023 playoff run of the nuggets. Having playoff Murray play big factor in most of their games.

[nikster]

Other thread was locked. Without Murray, Jokic doesn’t get exposed in playoffs. It’s that he needs wings and guards to advance in the playoffs.

Slovenian asked me what Denver would do vs Boston or Miami since they don’t have elite center offensive players.

The hypothetical answer it won’t matter if Jokic Averages 40/15/10 in finals if he doesn’t have good guard or wing play from Murray. If Murray doesn’t go off for 37 (30 in first half). Denver doesn’t win game 3. Denver doesn’t win game 2 either without Murray going off in the 4th quarter.

Murray doesn't win tonight without Jokic scoring in the 4th.

You haven't proven that Jokic needs guard play, just that he needs help like everyone in league history. He's a centre, of course the players surrounding him will be wings and guards

He’s got a pretty well paid power forward in Aaron Gordon. He had Gordon the last 2 playoffs and that didn’t
Help him.

Denver and Jokic fans are in denial in what I’m saying. Jokic needs perimeter scoring help. That’s what the nba playoffs are all about the last 20-25 years. With shaq , Duncan.

Only true center to lead team without much help likely was Hakeem in 1994 (Hakeem had aging Clyde in 1995)

Are you trolling? He had Aaron Gordon and a g League guard rotation as his help last year?

Everybody needs help. If your a centre that will come from the guard/forward position. If your a forward it will be a big man or a guard (like Lebron with Wade/Irving then AD), if your a guard it will come from your forwards or big man

[FluLikeSymptoms]

No, they are not. Horry and Thorpe were better players than Gordon and Green , Drexler was the better player than Murray,Cassell and Maxwell were better players than KCP and Brown etc. The Rockets had better supporting cast and its not even close. Those Rockets teams were very deep.

If you put Thorpe and Drexler on the same team, despite the fact that they were traded for each other, it’s closer. I’ll give you that.

[Mickey8]

Without Jokic, Denver is lottery bound team which is proven in the regular season when Jokic was missing the games. And Jokic is still the best Denver's player in the play off's. I am happy Murray is stepping up in the play off's every great player need a great sidekick. After all basketball is the team sport. One player can't win the championship by himself.

[scrabbarista]

Now I'm starting to question my Nuggets in 5 pick...

[Bergmaniac]

No, they are not. Horry and Thorpe were better players than Gordon and Green , Drexler was the better player than Murray,Cassell and Maxwell were better player than KCP and Brown etc. The Rockets had better supporting cast and is not even close. Houston Rockets were deep team.

Its funny how Denver/Jokic fans downgrade nuggets own player except for Jokic. And elevate other teams players.

Without playoff Murray. Denver isn’t advancing. It’s a simple fact. No matter what Jokic does. MPJ is meh so losing him isn’t a big deal. But losing playoff Murray makes a world of difference. That’s really the difference in the 2023 playoff run of the nuggets. Having playoff Murray play big factor in most of their games.

Playoff Murray is a big factor for sure, but hardly the only significant difference. Last year half of the Nuggets playoff rotation was made up of players who had no business whatsoever getting minutes in the playoffs. Some of them are out of the league now (Cousins, Bryn Forbes), others are struggling to get into the rotation of their new teams (Bones Hyland, Austin Reaves). Will Barton played the most minutes for the Nuggets in the playoffs last season and this year he was literally one of the worst rotation players in the league.

[Medbrat]

The dude tries to make argument "JoKiC gOt MoRe HeLp than BiiD" and brings up Gordon

[Wolfgang630]

Every Center in history needed a great guard to win a championship, except for Hakeem. It’s just the way the the game of basketball is designed and played. A Center is extremely incapable of doing it by themselves. Today more than ever it’s needed.