Wall vs. Kyrie for the last pg spot according to USA Today

[Beffiosa]

There is not a single GM in the league besides maybe Portland that would take Lillard over Kyrie. Believe it or not while Kyrie is a bad defender, Lillard is even worse. Kyrie has better career averages than Lillard per 36 in every single statistical category. He beats him in points per 36, rebounds, assists, FG%, FT%, blocks, steals... Lillard only had an edge on him in 3P% and only by .03!! And let's not forgot those career averages include Kyrie's down year last year (Bynum, Brown were factors). Imagine if Kyrie had Aldridge. His stats would be even better. And let's also not forgot that Kyrie is still 2 years younger than Lillard.

Lillard isn't a worse defender than Irving. You're just pulling **** out of your ass to make a point. It's easy to get on Lillards defense because he's small, but his understanding of basic defensive fundamentals are a lot better than Irving's, and please don't bring up Tony Parker, because realistically Tony Parker would have done that to anyone in the playoffs. Lillard isn't any worse than the other 100 guards that are sieves in the league, and that includes Irving.

The fact of the matter is when it comes to things like getting teammates into sets, executing an offense, running pick and roll, you know, the **** that actually wins basketball games, Lillard is much more developed than Irving in almost every aspect, and he was a crucial reason why Portland had the best offense in the NBA last season. His IQ is lightyears better than Irving, and that's not to say that Kyrie is a dumb player. Lillard just has a better feel for the game.

Not trying to disagree with you, but where did you find that Portland had the best offense? I thought they were ranked 5th in OFF EFF, 11 the in TS%, 15th in FG%, 11th in assist. I don't know about Lillard's IQ being light years ahead, I just felt his team were better coached and he had a far superior supporting cast. For what's its worth, Lillard was ranked 13 among PG in PER, Kyrie was 6th behind Chris Paul, Russel Westbrook, Steph Curry and Isiah Thomas. Kyrie ranked higher in value and estimated win shares as well. That if you take these stats serious.

[Threethrows]

This thread is getting out of control. Lots of misinformation being spouted by people that clearly don't follow the players they are talking about and simply take a quick look at season stats.

Wall, Irving and Lillard are all really, really good young point guards. None of them are clearly a level above the others right now. Sorry in advance for the generalization, but it seems a lot of Irving fans are really insecure about other young point guards being on his level. Making the other guys sound a lot worse when they are equal or better than Kyrie in a lot of ways. I like Irving but it's annoying seeing some of his fans act like it's disrespectful to talk about Lillard and Wall in the same breath as him and making unsubstantiated statements about them.

Again I hate to generalize, so if you are a Cavs/Irving fan and this doesn't apply to you just ignore it, but this thread would be a lot better with some more objectivity.

[Dupp]

This thread is getting out of control. Lots of misinformation being spouted by people that clearly don't follow the players they are talking about and simply take a quick look at season stats.

Wall, Irving and Lillard are all really, really good young point guards. None of them are clearly a level above the others right now. Sorry in advance for the generalization, but it seems a lot of Irving fans are really insecure about other young point guards being on his level. Making the other guys sound a lot worse when they are equal or better than Kyrie in a lot of ways. I like Irving but it's annoying seeing some of his fans act like it's disrespectful to talk about Lillard and Wall in the same breath as him and making unsubstantiated statements about them.

Again I hate to generalize, so if you are a Cavs/Irving fan and this doesn't apply to you just ignore it, but this thread would be a lot better with some more objectivity.

You're right. Lots of cavs fans dying dumb things about lillard and lots of wiz fans saying dumb things about Irving just to prop up their own player.

[MiltownHawkeye]

Well then Wall's assists numbers should've increased last year. Don't know why they didn't. Irving is a great passer and by playing with Lebron and Love next year, he could average close to 9 assists a game.

Wall's assists did increase.

Also led the league in total assists I believe.

Increased by what? 0.2 from his previous high? I just don't buy that Wall is a vastly superior passer to Irving.

You don't want to buy it.

[NBA Fan 1234]

*Only going off the first half of the game* Irving looks like he should definitely make it over Wall. Wall looks tentative and hasn't done anything. Irving has looked good on BOTH sides of the ball.

[Milkdud]

Lillard has to make the team. FIBA is all about shooting and he has full court range.

[Diop]

I read somewhere that when Kyrie was considering playing for Australia that Coach K gave him a call that convinced him that he should play for team USA.

I assumed it was a whispered promise that he would make the team.

[ColdBlooded]

Wall's assists did increase.

Also led the league in total assists I believe.

Increased by what? 0.2 from his previous high? I just don't buy that Wall is a vastly superior passer to Irving.

You don't want to buy it.

LOL this.

Wall is easily the superior passer. Cant believe someone is trying to argue with this. The numbers show it AND the eye test.

[junot111]

Seems to me like Lillard should be the odd one out... His skillset is the most redundant out of all of them

LOL what?. Lillard is better than Wall. Kyrie is better offensively but Lillard can sort of hang with him but Lillard craps on him defensively.

Kyrie does everything Lillard can do but better... and Wall is a much better defender and playmaker than Lillard... Lillard's not a great defender either so comparing his defense to Irving's is moot. Like I said his skillset is the most redundant here.

[mademan]

I though Kyrie was the best pg out there today. Made the right reads, didn't force anything, got to every spot on the floor he wanted to, made the correct pass and played good defense. Rose looks explosive out there, but I'd like to see him makes some plays in the halfcourt before i pass judgement. Curry didn't do much, but he's guaranteed and Lillard looked good too. Wall played like garbage

Who replaces George though? Any chance they take Derozan?

[ColdBlooded]

Seems to me like Lillard should be the odd one out... His skillset is the most redundant out of all of them

LOL what?. Lillard is better than Wall. Kyrie is better offensively but Lillard can sort of hang with him but Lillard craps on him defensively.

You're not allowed to talk basketball here anymore.

[eltercero]

Kyrie looked a lot better out there than Wall did.

[mrmsix6]

Every single time Kyrie plays with all-star caliber teammates he looks like the best, most talented PG on the floor, and that was true again tonight. When he plays with quality teammates he magically becomes a pass first PG who's constantly looking to get his teammates easy buckets. Crazy, huh? It's almost like who your teammates are matters for a PG.

I'm sorry, but there is no freaking way the team USA brain trust cuts Irving over Lillard/Wall. It's not happening. He's flat out better than both of them in this environment. Tell me all you want about their NBA stats, and I'll tell you all about who's the most skilled. This isn't a shot at Lillard/Wall, who are both outstanding young players, but Irving is just better.

[kevindurant1]

Seems to me like Lillard should be the odd one out... His skillset is the most redundant out of all of them

LOL what?. Lillard is better than Wall. Kyrie is better offensively but Lillard can sort of hang with him but Lillard craps on him defensively.

You're not allowed to talk basketball here anymore.

Ill stop talking about basketball when you stop walking out in the finals.

[WesleyExChiFan]

*Only going off the first half of the game* Irving looks like he should definitely make it over Wall. Wall looks tentative and hasn't done anything. Irving has looked good on BOTH sides of the ball.

exactly what I saw

[eltercero]

Lillard also outperforms Kyrie head to head, for what it's worth.

Lillard: 25.7 pts / 5.0 rebounds / 7.3 assists / 1.0 steal / 1.7 turnovers on 46/52/78 shooting, 17.3 FGA
Kyrie: 25.7 pts / 2.7 rebounds / 6.3 assists / 2.0 steals / 1.7 turnovers on 44/28/100 shooting, 22.0 FGA

It's worth nothing lol. What is that? Three games? And there isn't really much of a difference between the numbers they put up anyhow.

[excision]

Kyrie deserves it


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[airyak13]

Every single time Kyrie plays with all-star caliber teammates he looks like the best, most talented PG on the floor, and that was true again tonight. When he plays with quality teammates he magically becomes a pass first PG who's constantly looking to get his teammates easy buckets. Crazy, huh? It's almost like who your teammates are matters for a PG.

I'm sorry, but there is no freaking way the team USA brain trust cuts Irving over Lillard/Wall. It's not happening. He's flat out better than both of them in this environment. Tell me all you want about their NBA stats, and I'll tell you all about who's the most skilled. This isn't a shot at Lillard/Wall, who are both outstanding young players, but Irving is just better.

This.

I know I'll get **** for this, but while GMs will probably be split between Wall and Irving/Lillard (given the different skill sets they bring to the table), I strongly believe 32 out of 32 would take Irving over Lillard. Both of those guys are very similar players (down to their poor defense), yet Irving is better at virtually everything on the offensive end, outside of 3 point shooting. I don't see how a slight advantage in the streakiest skill set would give Lillard the edge over Irving.

Kyrie is definitely the more entitled of the two, however, which has seemed to effect intangible qualities, such as leadership and "heart", when things aren't going his way (which has been the case over the past three seasons). Definitely not a positive attribute to have, but for obvious reasons, this will change next season.

[ManualRam]

wall looked like he was thinking too much and was playing in a "mode" instead of just playing his game.

[eltercero]

Magically, all the John Wall supporters have suddenly disappeared...