Kyrie Trade Discussion Continued

[mrblunt]

Haven't read much of this discussion but what about the 76ers? They have plenty of nice young players they can give away and last i checked they need a proven pg who can score. Fultz or Simmons for Kyrie?

[Bobalob]

Supply & demand: How do they work?

Seriously, there are 28 teams in the league. He's under contract for two more years. There aren't 28 star players. Teams that want him can't bank on everyone else low balling the Cavs. How many times has Boston taken the approach you're advocating and missed on a target?

Exactly. Like the Nuggets are in a positon to be sittin back playing coy with Kyrie sittin in front of them. Please

And what exactly will Nuggets lose by not trading everything Cavs want for Irving? They are still young and their potential is not even close to maxed out.

Sigh.

Hundreds of thousands of years of wisdom: A bird in the hand (a known star) beats 2 in the bush

vs.

Average realgm fan: Naaah, i wanna wait n see how good Garry Harris becomes.

[Bobalob]

Haven't read much of this discussion but what about the 76ers? They have plenty of nice young players they can give away and last i checked they need a proven pg who can score. Fultz or Simmons for Kyrie?

1 of the first trades i thought of would be headlined by Fultz.

Simmons would be a hard no though (if im Philly). He and Fultz are two different levels of prospects

[jbk1234]

Exactly. Like the Nuggets are in a positon to be sittin back playing coy with Kyrie sittin in front of them. Please

And what exactly will Nuggets lose by not trading everything Cavs want for Irving? They are still young and their potential is not even close to maxed out.

Sigh.

Hundreds of thousands of years of wisdom: A bird in the hand (a known star) beats 2 in the bush

vs.

Average realgm fan: Naaah, i wanna wait n see how good Garry Harris becomes.

*All lottery picks pan out all the time. Potential is always worth more than proven talent. My future pick is worth more than a player who will get me over the hump in the playoffs. Maybe he's not worth a max contract but we can't just watch him leave for nothing.*

Things that teams tell themselves to ensure they never win a title.

[DreamTeam09]

If the knicks would've drafted DSJ then this trade would've happened already.

DSJ + Melo (maybe a pick because the knicks r the knicks) for Kyrie + shumpert

At least clv can rebuild wit DSJ in 1 year when Lebron n Melo opt out n leave and u got rid of shumperts remaining contract. but they took the french kid, who got injured early this summer.

[MartinToVaught]

Sigh.

Hundreds of thousands of years of wisdom: A bird in the hand (a known star) beats 2 in the bush

vs.

Average realgm fan: Naaah, i wanna wait n see how good Garry Harris becomes.

It's not that simple. You act like Kyrie has proven anything ever without LeBron in his career. The Nuggets don't have LeBron around to make him look good. Kyrie is far from "a bird in the hand" and always will be until he adds anything besides iso volume scoring to his game.

[Bobalob]

If the knicks would've drafted DSJ then this trade would've happened already.

DSJ + Melo (maybe a pick because the knicks r the knicks) for Kyrie + shumpert

At least clv can rebuild wit DSJ in 1 year when Lebron n Melo opt out n leave and u got rid of shumperts remaining contract. but they took the french kid, who got injured early this summer.

Good point. Cleveland dont want Ntikilina lol Oddly enough he basically projects to Iman Shumpert with slightly better handles

[jg77]

Lemme ask what your opinion of Steph Curry was at age 24-25. Kyrie had a very comparable years to Steph at that age, while increasing his ASS-TOV ratio on a team where he wasn't even the sole distributor. I'm just curious why everybody's so quick to label Kyrie a finished product when he JUST turned 25. Were Steph, Westbrook, Wall, etc finished products and All NBA caliber at that age?

Not saying Kyrie is going to explode like Harden did, but it's foolish to assume he can't improve as a player. For one, we know he's capable of playing good defense, he's just lazy on that side for the most part and his team relies heavily on a system of constant switching. And we know that Lue kind of let off on defensive accountability, which wasn't helped by LeBron also being lazy on defense (his teammates take his lead).

As for injuries, other than breaking his face or knee, Kyrie can put up a respectable 70-80 games when fully healthy. He probably would have played more this past year had Lue rationed out their minutes better. I think it's premature to label Kyrie as injury prone.

Just for comparison
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html

Curry is an out of the world shooter that has pretty much changed the landscape of the NBA. It's hard comparing him to anyone. I think everyone in the NBA wish they could find someone to emulate his game but to be honest I don't think we'll ever see a player like him again. I think Kyrie is really good shooter from three as well but Curry's 41% last year was a down year. Isn't that hard to believe? 41% from three and that's a down year. Curry was probably bogged down by Ellis is first couple years in the league and was also battling ankle injuries.

If Kyrie ends up in Minnesota then I'm not expecting him to breakout, he'd probably stay on course of what he has been doing. If he ends up in NY or PHX then I do expect some type of explosion but I don't think he could ever reach Curry's level of play.

What, win titles? The hell is wrong with some of yall?!?!

I was talking about his production.

[Bobalob]

Sigh.

Hundreds of thousands of years of wisdom: A bird in the hand (a known star) beats 2 in the bush

vs.

Average realgm fan: Naaah, i wanna wait n see how good Garry Harris becomes.

It's not that simple. You act like Kyrie has proven anything ever without LeBron in his career. The Nuggets don't have LeBron around to make him look good. Kyrie is far from "a bird in the hand" and always will be until he adds anything besides iso volume scoring to his game.

I hear you bro, i hear you.

[Warchant]

Kyrie no longer follows LB..lol

[CelticsLV]

Exactly. Like the Nuggets are in a positon to be sittin back playing coy with Kyrie sittin in front of them. Please

And what exactly will Nuggets lose by not trading everything Cavs want for Irving? They are still young and their potential is not even close to maxed out.

Sigh.

Hundreds of thousands of years of wisdom: A bird in the hand (a known star) beats 2 in the bush

vs.

Average realgm fan: Naaah, i wanna wait n see how good Garry Harris becomes.

To where exactly Irving would bring Nuggets? You really think Irving makes Nuggets into contender in the stacked west? And there's 0 guarantee Irving stays there after those 2 years. And then you end up with neither a bird in the hand or 2 in the bush. This is a risk you take into account when make offers instead of just screaming: "Irving is available, let's throw everything Cavs want on the table!" Nuggets could make an offer but something reasonable that doesn't take away most of their young talent + rotanional pieces. If Cavs doesn't take that then fine, Nuggets move forward with their talent which still has plenty of upside and no harm done.

[Bobalob]

"Iso volume scoring"

Tha F***!? Lmao

People cant even get the jargon straight thats when you know their talkign sports out their a$$!

Volume scoring = need a lot of shots to get your points, aka shooting low 40s.

Kyrie shoots high 40s and 40% from 3. facepalm.

[DubTheVanDamage]

Very simple. Bc 1) he's younger and 2) contrary to what fans (especially here on realgm) think, there is great value in GETTING BUCKETS. The fact i even have to make a case for Kyrie Irving 12 months after 40 point games in the finals and game series TITLE winning buckets (over a guy who will be a top player of the generation) is comedy in itself.

Let some of you tell it James Harden isnt really that good, teph Curry is overrated, and you'd probably rather have Draymond Green than Krl Anthony Townes.

2-way players, 3&d, blah blah blah bump all that Kyire cant be guarded. Period. You bank on the fact he learned a thing or 2 playing at the highest stage, and that free of Lebron he could blend into a system. Seems to work just fine for Damian Lillard, Russell Westbrook, and all the other shoot first PGs in the league (like where have you all been the last 5 years?! The Steve Nash and J Kidd PG is dead)

Lemme ask what your opinion of Steph Curry was at age 24-25. Kyrie had a very comparable years to Steph at that age, while increasing his ASS-TOV ratio on a team where he wasn't even the sole distributor. I'm just curious why everybody's so quick to label Kyrie a finished product when he JUST turned 25. Were Steph, Westbrook, Wall, etc finished products and All NBA caliber at that age?

Not saying Kyrie is going to explode like Harden did, but it's foolish to assume he can't improve as a player. For one, we know he's capable of playing good defense, he's just lazy on that side for the most part and his team relies heavily on a system of constant switching. And we know that Lue kind of let off on defensive accountability, which wasn't helped by LeBron also being lazy on defense (his teammates take his lead).

As for injuries, other than breaking his face or knee, Kyrie can put up a respectable 70-80 games when fully healthy. He probably would have played more this past year had Lue rationed out their minutes better. I think it's premature to label Kyrie as injury prone.

Just for comparison
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/curryst01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html

I put your replies together and they're similar and it's easier to streamline the conversation.

First, comparing Kyrie to Butler wasn't meant as a slight to Kyrie -- Butler was arguably a top 10 player this year. And while I acknowledge that Kyrie is younger, his knee is still bothering him 2+ years after having pins put in -- that is somewhat of a concern.

Kyrie isn't Curry -- that's not a slight on him as a player, but they're different situations. Also, while Curry's 13 and Kyrie's 17 might look similar superficially, Curry's advanced stats are considerably better and he was leading a playoff team, not the #2 guy. Kyrie has been terrible with LeBron off -- Lowe had some stats -- you've probably seen them. Finally, Curry going from 'really good player' to 'superstar' at age 25 was definitely an unusual situation, in part because of coaching and injuries.

Now, one could argue that's exactly why Kyrie wants to leave -- he wants a chance to spread his wings and run his own team rather than being a cog in LeBron's machine. I get that.

I also think that Kyrie's a great player -- but we simply haven't seen a trade package anything like what's being discussed here for some very good players that have been moved in the past few years: Cousins, Butler, CP3, PG, Harden, etc. GMs just haven't been able to get full value for players (although I'd say the Clippers did as well as they could have and the Kings are probably content with what they received).

[oikosnomos]

I'm going to join the group that is surprised at Cavs fans hating so hard on Irving. I can understand being disappointed, but I'm having a hard time being mad at him.

First and foremost, he helped bring home a Championship to Cleveland. That gives him a lot of leeway in my book to do whatever he wants. Everybody on that team would have to really say or do some rotten stuff to change my opinion of them.

Second, I had zero idea he was unhappy here. He kept that under tight wraps for a long time. I find that hard to get mad at that since he has caused no drama despite being unhappy with his situation. It finally came out and for whatever reason, he doesn't want to be on this team

Third, Kyrie telling the team now and in this rather quiet, indirect way leaves the Cavs in a great position to actually get value back for him. He didn't wait another year or make a big ruckus regarding his desire to be traded. People are still trying to understand why he wants to be traded. Those things help him retain value around the league and help the Cavs get good deals for him.

I'm disappointed because he is really, really fun to watch and I loved having him here and play for my team. However, I don't feel betrayed or angry about any of this. Sports are suppose to be fun. I've had fun the last three years, not going to let this stop that.

[Jason_Todd]

Kyrie to the Knicks in the Melo trade

[EarlyRaptor]

I'm still in the camp that kyrie is gunna be a cav still next season.

[510TWSS]

Can't take credit for this one but on the SI pod they suggested Ky for DMC. Would be interesting but then you got to find a taker for love.

Damn, now I don't like that trade. Haha. Too bad Ky didn't let them know earlier. Could've tried to convince CP3 into Cleveland instead of Houston.

Then again Pritchard's an idiot if he thought Presti really wouldn't have done that same deal after midnight.

I used to think highly of Pritchard in his initial Portland days but he's takes an L for the PG trade. I'd rather have Gary Harris than Dipo on his boat anchor contract.

[Bobalob]

Curry is an out of the world shooter that has pretty much changed the landscape of the NBA. It's hard comparing him to anyone. I think everyone in the NBA wish they could find someone to emulate his game but to be honest I don't think we'll ever see a player like him again. I think Kyrie is really good shooter from three as well but Curry's 41% last year was a down year. Isn't that hard to believe? 41% from three and that's a down year. Curry was probably bogged down by Ellis is first couple years in the league and was also battling ankle injuries.

If Kyrie ends up in Minnesota then I'm not expecting him to breakout, he'd probably stay on course of what he has been doing. If he ends up in NY or PHX then I do expect some type of explosion but I don't think he could ever reach Curry's level of play.

What, win titles? The hell is wrong with some of yall?!?!

I was talking about his production.

Oh, the 25+ ppg, 5+ apg, and 47% fg last 2 postseasons?

Im pretty sure if Elias pulled up those stats all time that'd include Lebron, Kobe, Jordan, Bird, West, and not many others! So what exactly we talkin here.

[MartinToVaught]

Kyrie shoots high 40s and 40% from 3. facepalm.

Kyrie's career three-point percentage is below 40%. Last four years from three: 35%, 41%, 32%, 40%. So let's not pretend he's the third Splash Brother. He's capable of having seasons where he shoots 40+% from three, but you act like he's doing it every year when he isn't.

Seriously, what is Kyrie elite at right now besides dribbling and iso scoring? He doesn't play a lick of defense and he isn't great at creating for others. He's not getting compared to Stephon Marbury for no reason.

[Bobalob]

Kyrie shoots high 40s and 40% from 3. facepalm.

Kyrie's career three-point percentage is below 40%. Last four years from three: 35%, 41%, 32%, 40%. So let's not pretend he's the third Splash Brother. He's capable of having seasons where he shoots 40+% from three, but you act like he's doing it every year when he isn't.

Seriously, what is Kyrie elite at right now besides dribbling and iso scoring? He doesn't play a lick of defense and he isn't great at creating for others. He's not getting compared to Stephon Marbury for no reason.

I said playoffs. Ya know, where he actually improves his stats.

And you must be crazy if you think the burden is on ME to prove what kyrie does

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