How good is Jokic? [Poll added]

[Rashoismydad]

Towns clowns on Jokic when they play and comparing them as prospects is laughable. I dont care if he gets a lot of assists for a center, what a completely meaningless distinction. KAT could sit in the post and look for cutters all day too but hes a dominant #1 option scorer in his second year where Jokic plays like a super role player.

Towns Vs Jokic:
2017 - 25.8/14/5.3 with 2 blocks on .527/.500/.808
2016 - 18.5/10.8/1.5 with 2.8 blocks on .549/(0/2)/.947

Jokic vs Towns:
2017 - 14.3/8.5/6 1.5 blocks on .469/.200/.692
2016 9.8/5.8/2.5 .5 blocks on .556/.333/1.000

And I guarantee you Towns 5.3 APG in 4 games vs Jokic, the highest against any team, isnt a coincidence. Its him proving he could get a bunch of assists if he wanted too, while crushing him in every other category. Jokic cant hold Towns jock, one is a nice player who might make some all star teams if he continues to improve, the other is on a first ballot HOF trajectory. Absolutely laughable.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Jokic over Towns? Get your head examined lol. Jokic fans shouldnt watch the above videos, it might trigger you.

[ReKon]

Yet again you are talking about one side of the ball. Either way if Giannis or LeBron were playing in Washington Wall would be the one who would have to adapt especially if Lebron is there cause Giannis let s say is unproven yet. Defensively prime LeBron at least and current Giannis had/have a much bigger impact on the court than Jokic. And they are on par or better as creators. I just think you might have used a wrong comparison here.

How are ELITE defensive centers role players? Do you seriously think that Gobert who affects the defensive side of the ball as much or probably more than Jokic with the offensive side of it is a role player? Because i feel you are exaggerating.

Jokic's defense is definitely underrated. Look up his advanced stats, he had like the same defensive rating than Embiid. He is a bad rim protector, but actually good at everything else. Jokic as a rookie, playing 22 minutes a game, actually put up a top-10 DRPM in the entire league. He will never compete for DPOY, but his defensive woes are way overstated.

The point that i made is not about whether Jokic is an underrated defender or not. I even said that to me he could become a slightly better Marc Gasol when he improves his defence and Marc Gasol has won a DPOY has 3 all star appearances and has been selected for the all-NBA first and second team. So it's not like i am hating on Jokic but i just don't share the same feeling that most of the posters here have that he is a perennial MVP candidate. I also started this conversation because someone mentioned that Jokic is probably the best player in his age group if i remember correctly which in my opinion is not true.

[Alatan]

Towns clowns on Jokic when they play and comparing them as prospects is laughable. I dont care if he gets a lot of assists for a center, what a completely meaningless distinction. KAT could sit in the post and look for cutters all day too but hes a dominant #1 option scorer in his second year where Jokic plays like a super role player.
Jokic over Towns? Get your head examined lol. Jokic fans shouldnt watch the above videos, it might trigger you.

If you bothered to watch these videos you posted you would know that most of the time Jokic wasn't guarding Towns and the other way around so comparing them head to head is meaningless. Comparing their stats in a limited amount of games is also meaningless.

If Towns is such an incredible player why is he at the bottom of the west ? Maybe he should try and get those meaningless assists an see if it gets him past 30 wins. That super role player Jokic leads the top 4 NBA offense and what does the alleged superstar towns do? Towns is a great player but your disrespect to Jokic is the only thing that is laughable here.

[Rashoismydad]

If you bothered to watch these videos you posted you would know that most of the time Jokic wasn't guarding Towns and the other way around so comparing them head to head is meaningless. Comparing their stats in a limited amount of games is also meaningless.

If Towns is such an incredible player why is he at the bottom of the west ? Maybe he should try and get those meaningless assists an see if it gets him past 30 wins. That super role player Jokic leads the top 4 NBA offense and what does the alleged superstar towns do? Towns is a great player but your disrespect to Jokic is the only thing that is laughable here.

I did watch them, did you? How many and 1's did Towns draw on Jokic? How many tip dunks? How many times did he blow right by him, shoot in his face, or drop a turnaround on him like Kobe? Sorry if every single embarrassment cant be on Jokic and Nurkic/Faried/Plumlee had to get some nuts dropped on their face too, but Jokic got MORE than his share. Watch the second video, the nuggets should have thrown in the towel for Jokic Rocky 4 style to save him from the embarrassment. Blowing by him, dunking on him, shooting over him, tip dunking over him, swatting his shot...it is embarrassing. Its 90% Towns on Jokic crime and I feel bad for the poor fella.

Yeah, the nuggets were world beaters! The wolves had the youngest team in the league and the third head coach in 3 years. You better get all you can out of your "yeah but the wolves are bad!" stance because the wolves will be significantly better than the nuggets. Are you seriously trying to prop your argument on what a winner Jokic is on the sub .500 nuggets?

The only way Jokic is ever going to see the all star game is if Towns feels bad for him and lets him valet his car.

Like I said, one is a nice player who might sneak into an all star game at some point. The other is on a first ballot HOF trajectory and the only "peers" he has statistically are the likes of Shaq, Olajuwon, Duncan etc.

[eathb_au]

On another note, I reckon Jokic would have one of the best or if not the best floater in NBA history.

He shoots floaters are 60%+, it's near automatic.

The best players in the league would go at 45-50% at best.

[Prez]

Some pretty funny Jokic takes in recent pages. Jokic was better than KAT this year. He's just a clearly more positively impactful player at this point. I hate criticizing KAT because I do like him and think he has MVP(s) in his future, and he could definitely surpass Jokic going forward, but right now his case over Jokic doesn't extend too far beyond PPGZ.

[Young_Star11]

Denver should sign him to the max!

[Johnny Firpo]

I did watch them, did you? How many and 1's did Towns draw on Jokic? How many tip dunks? How many times did he blow right by him, shoot in his face, or drop a turnaround on him like Kobe? Sorry if every single embarrassment cant be on Jokic and Nurkic/Faried/Plumlee had to get some nuts dropped on their face too, but Jokic got MORE than his share. Watch the second video, the nuggets should have thrown in the towel for Jokic Rocky 4 style to save him from the embarrassment. Blowing by him, dunking on him, shooting over him, tip dunking over him, swatting his shot...it is embarrassing. Its 90% Towns on Jokic crime and I feel bad for the poor fella.

Yeah, the nuggets were world beaters! The wolves had the youngest team in the league and the third head coach in 3 years. You better get all you can out of your "yeah but the wolves are bad!" stance because the wolves will be significantly better than the nuggets. Are you seriously trying to prop your argument on what a winner Jokic is on the sub .500 nuggets?

The only way Jokic is ever going to see the all star game is if Towns feels bad for him and lets him valet his car.

Like I said, one is a nice player who might sneak into an all star game at some point. The other is on a first ballot HOF trajectory and the only "peers" he has statistically are the likes of Shaq, Olajuwon, Duncan etc.

You are delusional, and clearly know nothing about basketball. Are you seriously basing your opinion on a handful of one on one matchups from a handful of games?

.549/(0/2)/.947

LMAO! The way you decided to put that stat in, tells everything about you!

[Wolfgang630]

If you bothered to watch these videos you posted you would know that most of the time Jokic wasn't guarding Towns and the other way around so comparing them head to head is meaningless. Comparing their stats in a limited amount of games is also meaningless.

If Towns is such an incredible player why is he at the bottom of the west ? Maybe he should try and get those meaningless assists an see if it gets him past 30 wins. That super role player Jokic leads the top 4 NBA offense and what does the alleged superstar towns do? Towns is a great player but your disrespect to Jokic is the only thing that is laughable here.

I did watch them, did you? How many and 1's did Towns draw on Jokic? How many tip dunks? How many times did he blow right by him, shoot in his face, or drop a turnaround on him like Kobe? Sorry if every single embarrassment cant be on Jokic and Nurkic/Faried/Plumlee had to get some nuts dropped on their face too, but Jokic got MORE than his share. Watch the second video, the nuggets should have thrown in the towel for Jokic Rocky 4 style to save him from the embarrassment. Blowing by him, dunking on him, shooting over him, tip dunking over him, swatting his shot...it is embarrassing. Its 90% Towns on Jokic crime and I feel bad for the poor fella.

Yeah, the nuggets were world beaters! The wolves had the youngest team in the league and the third head coach in 3 years. You better get all you can out of your "yeah but the wolves are bad!" stance because the wolves will be significantly better than the nuggets. Are you seriously trying to prop your argument on what a winner Jokic is on the sub .500 nuggets?

The only way Jokic is ever going to see the all star game is if Towns feels bad for him and lets him valet his car.

Like I said, one is a nice player who might sneak into an all star game at some point. The other is on a first ballot HOF trajectory and the only "peers" he has statistically are the likes of Shaq, Olajuwon, Duncan etc.

Pull your head out of your ass...it's embarrassing.

[The Rebel]

If you bothered to watch these videos you posted you would know that most of the time Jokic wasn't guarding Towns and the other way around so comparing them head to head is meaningless. Comparing their stats in a limited amount of games is also meaningless.

If Towns is such an incredible player why is he at the bottom of the west ? Maybe he should try and get those meaningless assists an see if it gets him past 30 wins. That super role player Jokic leads the top 4 NBA offense and what does the alleged superstar towns do? Towns is a great player but your disrespect to Jokic is the only thing that is laughable here.

I did watch them, did you? How many and 1's did Towns draw on Jokic? How many tip dunks? How many times did he blow right by him, shoot in his face, or drop a turnaround on him like Kobe? Sorry if every single embarrassment cant be on Jokic and Nurkic/Faried/Plumlee had to get some nuts dropped on their face too, but Jokic got MORE than his share. Watch the second video, the nuggets should have thrown in the towel for Jokic Rocky 4 style to save him from the embarrassment. Blowing by him, dunking on him, shooting over him, tip dunking over him, swatting his shot...it is embarrassing. Its 90% Towns on Jokic crime and I feel bad for the poor fella.

Yeah, the nuggets were world beaters! The wolves had the youngest team in the league and the third head coach in 3 years. You better get all you can out of your "yeah but the wolves are bad!" stance because the wolves will be significantly better than the nuggets. Are you seriously trying to prop your argument on what a winner Jokic is on the sub .500 nuggets?

The only way Jokic is ever going to see the all star game is if Towns feels bad for him and lets him valet his car.

Like I said, one is a nice player who might sneak into an all star game at some point. The other is on a first ballot HOF trajectory and the only "peers" he has statistically are the likes of Shaq, Olajuwon, Duncan etc.

You may want to check on how young teams were, the Nuggets played more young player than anybody in the league last year.

[SkyHookFTW]

Like Wilt but with passing ability of Rondo

Really? I didn't know he was an elite defender and rebounder who could play an entire game.

[SkyHookFTW]

2016-2017 season:

DRPM Jokic: 2.29, 16 out of 63 centers
DRPM KAT: -1.41, 63 out of 63 centers (damn, worse than Okafor)

ORPM Jokic: 4.44, 1 out of 63 centers
ORPM KAT: 3.54, 3 out of 63 centers

RPM Jokic: 6.73, 1 out of 63 centers
RPM KAT: 2.13, 13 out of 63 centers

If you want to use RPM numbers, Jokic is superior without question.

[Biff]

If you bothered to watch these videos you posted you would know that most of the time Jokic wasn't guarding Towns and the other way around so comparing them head to head is meaningless. Comparing their stats in a limited amount of games is also meaningless.

If Towns is such an incredible player why is he at the bottom of the west ? Maybe he should try and get those meaningless assists an see if it gets him past 30 wins. That super role player Jokic leads the top 4 NBA offense and what does the alleged superstar towns do? Towns is a great player but your disrespect to Jokic is the only thing that is laughable here.

I did watch them, did you? How many and 1's did Towns draw on Jokic? How many tip dunks? How many times did he blow right by him, shoot in his face, or drop a turnaround on him like Kobe? Sorry if every single embarrassment cant be on Jokic and Nurkic/Faried/Plumlee had to get some nuts dropped on their face too, but Jokic got MORE than his share. Watch the second video, the nuggets should have thrown in the towel for Jokic Rocky 4 style to save him from the embarrassment. Blowing by him, dunking on him, shooting over him, tip dunking over him, swatting his shot...it is embarrassing. Its 90% Towns on Jokic crime and I feel bad for the poor fella.

Yeah, the nuggets were world beaters! The wolves had the youngest team in the league and the third head coach in 3 years. You better get all you can out of your "yeah but the wolves are bad!" stance because the wolves will be significantly better than the nuggets. Are you seriously trying to prop your argument on what a winner Jokic is on the sub .500 nuggets?

The only way Jokic is ever going to see the all star game is if Towns feels bad for him and lets him valet his car.

Like I said, one is a nice player who might sneak into an all star game at some point. The other is on a first ballot HOF trajectory and the only "peers" he has statistically are the likes of Shaq, Olajuwon, Duncan etc.

Another person that just watches youtube videos to make his evaluations. How about on/off? Towns' on/off has been +1.9 and +1.5 his first two years. Jokic’s is +9.5 and +11.9. Clearly there is more to this story than you're imagining.

[Rashoismydad]

I evaluate only off videos? I have watched every minute KAT has played in his NBA career. Im not trying to say I have watched every minute of Jokic but I dont have to in order to see who they both are. Jokic is so great he cant even stay on the court 30 minutes a game! Vlade Divac was a nice player, but comparing him to Shaq is laughable...sorry. The truth is the people confused enough to put Jokic above KAT rely on flawed defensive metrics and high assist rate, but when you watch the two actually play there is no comparison.

Tell me again how Jokic is a better defender because the numbers say so, then watch them play. Switch their roles and tell Towns he can play fewer minutes and concentrate on passing and rebounding while not having to be the absolute alpha on offense and his efficiency goes up even more while Jokics plummets. Like I said, his 5.3 apg vs the nuggets ISNT coincidence, he hears this nonsense and goes out and puts it down Jokics throat.

If any of you were really a GM and had to pick between them and chose Jokic you would be the worst GM in the league instantly. Go look at the cornerstone under 24 thread, why does Towns have 6 times as many votes? Because of all the people who only watch youtube videos? Even in the thread made to slob on Jokic Towns gets twice as many votes. As I said before, you can EASILY forecast Towns as a FIRST BALLOT HOFER based on his first two seasons, are you silly enough to try to proclaim the same about Jokic?

Enjoy this delusion while it lasts because after this season and more team success proclaiming Jokic>Towns will get you checked into the nut house.

[Sharkboy242]

If you bothered to watch these videos you posted you would know that most of the time Jokic wasn't guarding Towns and the other way around so comparing them head to head is meaningless. Comparing their stats in a limited amount of games is also meaningless.

If Towns is such an incredible player why is he at the bottom of the west ? Maybe he should try and get those meaningless assists an see if it gets him past 30 wins. That super role player Jokic leads the top 4 NBA offense and what does the alleged superstar towns do? Towns is a great player but your disrespect to Jokic is the only thing that is laughable here.

I did watch them, did you? How many and 1's did Towns draw on Jokic? How many tip dunks? How many times did he blow right by him, shoot in his face, or drop a turnaround on him like Kobe? Sorry if every single embarrassment cant be on Jokic and Nurkic/Faried/Plumlee had to get some nuts dropped on their face too, but Jokic got MORE than his share. Watch the second video, the nuggets should have thrown in the towel for Jokic Rocky 4 style to save him from the embarrassment. Blowing by him, dunking on him, shooting over him, tip dunking over him, swatting his shot...it is embarrassing. Its 90% Towns on Jokic crime and I feel bad for the poor fella.

Yeah, the nuggets were world beaters! The wolves had the youngest team in the league and the third head coach in 3 years. You better get all you can out of your "yeah but the wolves are bad!" stance because the wolves will be significantly better than the nuggets. Are you seriously trying to prop your argument on what a winner Jokic is on the sub .500 nuggets?

The only way Jokic is ever going to see the all star game is if Towns feels bad for him and lets him valet his car.

Like I said, one is a nice player who might sneak into an all star game at some point. The other is on a first ballot HOF trajectory and the only "peers" he has statistically are the likes of Shaq, Olajuwon, Duncan etc.

The amount of smug and condescension you've managed to pack in this horrible post is pretty astronomical. Are you a child? You can have conversation/debate without saying childish crap like 'poor fella' and 'The only way Jokic is ever going to see the all star game is if Towns feels bad for him and lets him valet his car'. Saying stuff like that makes you sound defensive and quite frankly, insecure (which im sure you are).

I like how you try to use four games (which were split 2-2 LOL) as end all be alls for comparing their seasons. Either you know that advanced stats empirically favor Jokic, or you're just casual enough to not know what advanced metrics mean. I'm guessing its the latter. And your justification for the Wolves having won less games, when as a matter of fact the Nuggets played their younger players more minutes than the wolves, just makes you look like an ignoramus douchnozzle.

Jokic had a better season than Towns and it doesn't take a genius to realize this. Get triggered.

[BlazersBroncos]

I evaluate only off videos? I have watched every minute KAT has played in his NBA career. Im not trying to say I have watched every minute of Jokic but I dont have to in order to see who they both are. Jokic is so great he cant even stay on the court 30 minutes a game! Vlade Divac was a nice player, but comparing him to Shaq is laughable...sorry. The truth is the people confused enough to put Jokic above KAT rely on flawed defensive metrics and high assist rate, but when you watch the two actually play there is no comparison.

Tell me again how Jokic is a better defender because the numbers say so, then watch them play. Switch their roles and tell Towns he can play fewer minutes and concentrate on passing and rebounding while not having to be the absolute alpha on offense and his efficiency goes up even more while Jokics plummets. Like I said, his 5.3 apg vs the nuggets ISNT coincidence, he hears this nonsense and goes out and puts it down Jokics throat.

If any of you were really a GM and had to pick between them and chose Jokic you would be the worst GM in the league instantly. Go look at the cornerstone under 24 thread, why does Towns have 6 times as many votes? Because of all the people who only watch youtube videos? Even in the thread made to slob on Jokic Towns gets twice as many votes. As I said before, you can EASILY forecast Towns as a FIRST BALLOT HOFER based on his first two seasons, are you silly enough to try to proclaim the same about Jokic?

Enjoy this delusion while it lasts because after this season and more team success proclaiming Jokic>Towns will get you checked into the nut house.

Wow. What a smug response. Its sad that a near 10 year RealGM member feels the need to communicate in this manner.

[Johnny Firpo]

Wow. What a smug response. Its sad that a near 10 year RealGM member feels the need to communicate in this manner.

He obviously has issues with European players, Realgm is full of Euro haters. There is no other explanation for this heated reaction. He got triggered because he hates Euros. Well, or he is a huge Towns homer. Maybe a combination of both. And it's not like taking Towns is a bad answer either, but suggesting that Jokic is not close in terms of talent is ridiculous. He is just very different in a lot of aspects, but just as unique. Same goes for Porzingis and Embiid. They all have Hall of Fame potential, all four of them, and yes, from a scoring standpoint, Towns is probably the best at this point, but that is only one facet of the game.

[CometGM]

If any of you were really a GM and had to pick between them and chose Jokic you would be the worst GM in the league instantly. Go look at the cornerstone under 24 thread, why does Towns have 6 times as many votes? Because of all the people who only watch youtube videos? Even in the thread made to slob on Jokic Towns gets twice as many votes. As I said before, you can EASILY forecast Towns as a FIRST BALLOT HOFER based on his first two seasons, are you silly enough to try to proclaim the same about Jokic?

Enjoy this delusion while it lasts because after this season and more team success proclaiming Jokic>Towns will get you checked into the nut house.

This is really the key. If you're an actual GM with money and career on the line, not fandom or handpicking "advanced" stats it's pretty obvious. I'm sure every GM has access to those "advanced" stats and more and I highly doubt any of them would pick Jokic over any of the other guys mentioned on this thread. It's easy to go on a forum and point those things out, but reality is a lot different. You don't have some deeper insight than people actually doing this for a living. Jokic is a very nice and interesting player but he did not have a better season than Towns. Let's see how many real GMs pick Jokic as the player they'd most like to start their franchise with after they have their annual vote. He's good but getting overrated already if you're putting him above a player like Towns.

[Rashoismydad]

Wow. What a smug response. Its sad that a near 10 year RealGM member feels the need to communicate in this manner.

He obviously has issues with European players, Realgm is full of Euro haters. There is no other explanation for this heated reaction. He got triggered because he hates Euros. Well, or he is a huge Towns homer. Maybe a combination of both. And it's not like taking Towns is a bad answer either, but suggesting that Jokic is not close in terms of talent is ridiculous. He is just very different in a lot of aspects, but just as unique. Same goes for Porzingis and Embiid. They all have Hall of Fame potential, all four of them, and yes, from a scoring standpoint, Towns is probably the best at this point, but that is only one facet of the game.

I dont hate euro players at all, I am simply mocking the laughable notion that Towns and Jokic are even similar prospects. There isnt a single GM in this league who takes Jokic over Towns, NOT ONE. Arturas Karnisovas would ship Jokic off to MN for Towns before Thibs sobered up if he had the chance and never look back.

[Nuggets_Talk]

Towns clowns on Jokic when they play and comparing them as prospects is laughable. I dont care if he gets a lot of assists for a center, what a completely meaningless distinction. KAT could sit in the post and look for cutters all day too but hes a dominant #1 option scorer in his second year where Jokic plays like a super role player.

Towns Vs Jokic:
2017 - 25.8/14/5.3 with 2 blocks on .527/.500/.808
2016 - 18.5/10.8/1.5 with 2.8 blocks on .549/(0/2)/.947

Jokic vs Towns:
2017 - 14.3/8.5/6 1.5 blocks on .469/.200/.692
2016 9.8/5.8/2.5 .5 blocks on .556/.333/1.000

And I guarantee you Towns 5.3 APG in 4 games vs Jokic, the highest against any team, isnt a coincidence. Its him proving he could get a bunch of assists if he wanted too, while crushing him in every other category. Jokic cant hold Towns jock, one is a nice player who might make some all star teams if he continues to improve, the other is on a first ballot HOF trajectory. Absolutely laughable.

Glad to hear kat cares about how he looks against jokic.