King of Empty stats

[dhsilv2]

I watched the Laker/76er game lat night and was shocked to see that /Simmons had 13 rebounds and 15 assists. I barely even noticed him out there on offense.

Not really related to the topic unless you think those are empty stats. Duncan used to have quit 40-20 games and nobody is telling me had empty stats.

I just looked a little closer at the box score and it confirmed what I was thinking. 13 rebounds with 0 offensive rebounds plus i don’t recall any key Boards or assists. I know what you’re saying about a quiet 40 pt game from Duncan, but you can’t argue with points and winning. I’m referring to inflated numbers from a player who seem like he wasn’t impacting the game which felt pertinent to the topic.

I'd rather my point guard never got an offensive rebound, get back on defense! Now sure assists can be subjective, but given he's really the only guy on that team who can run the offense, I feel like what you're describing is not a bad thing. Be nice if he could take over more as a scorer, but that line to me looks like the kind of line I'd expect to not get noticed in game. We as fans tend to not notice the guys just moving the offense along but who don't wow us. Unless of course we're watching just to watch said player.

But maybe that's just me. I feel these are two different things as empty stats tends to be volume scoring that doesn't seem to help make a team better vs perhaps getting some easy rebounds and some "free" assists.

[dhsilv2]

The team wins...consistently...He is as good as his stats suggest. And they suggest that he is limited but good. Is the team supposed to win more than we do based on what his stats imply?

Team historicly has excelled when derozan sits and lowry is on the court> I guess derozans moral support brings the bench + lowry a lot of luck though.

What kind of mastermind coach must you think Casey is and all around super team the Raptors have fielded over the last few years in order to be a consistently 50+ win team while having to hide a big minute marquee empty stat player?

Man, if only that were the case.

You get that empty stats doesn't imply a player is terrible, right? You can be a good player and still have grossly inflated stats.

[Long2s]

I watched the Laker/76er game lat night and was shocked to see that /Simmons had 13 rebounds and 15 assists. I barely even noticed him out there on offense.

Not really fair, he was invisible the last 4 minutes because Embiid is their go to guy when they want a bucket, but he played great before that. It helped that the Lakers played him poorly, I didn't understand why they choose to defend him this way, but he's far from an empty stat player, his impact is real...

Don't get it wrong though.

Embiid is that team. Simmons looks much better because he has Embiid.

And yes, Simmons looks fairly pedestrian much of the game. Still effective, but there is just isn't that much of an impact as you'd think from the statlines.

[dhsilv2]

I watched the Laker/76er game lat night and was shocked to see that /Simmons had 13 rebounds and 15 assists. I barely even noticed him out there on offense.

Not really fair, he was invisible the last 4 minutes because Embiid is their go to guy when they want a bucket, but he played great before that. It helped that the Lakers played him poorly, I didn't understand why they choose to defend him this way, but he's far from an empty stat player, his impact is real...

Don't get it wrong though.

Embiid is that team. Simmons looks much better because he has Embiid.

And yes, Simmons looks fairly pedestrian much of the game. Still effective, but there is just isn't that much of an impact as you'd think from the statlines.

He's 27 in RPM. It's way too early to give that stats major value, but he's clearly putting up impact to match his stats. Embiid is 30th. By year end we'll see where the more stable numbers go, but they're both having massive impact on that team. Covington is as well, and right now he measures out as their most important players, and from the few games I've seen I don't think that's irrational to think.

[HoopsMalone]

Not really fair, he was invisible the last 4 minutes because Embiid is their go to guy when they want a bucket, but he played great before that. It helped that the Lakers played him poorly, I didn't understand why they choose to defend him this way, but he's far from an empty stat player, his impact is real...

Don't get it wrong though.

Embiid is that team. Simmons looks much better because he has Embiid.

And yes, Simmons looks fairly pedestrian much of the game. Still effective, but there is just isn't that much of an impact as you'd think from the statlines.

He's 27 in RPM. It's way too early to give that stats major value, but he's clearly putting up impact to match his stats. Embiid is 30th. By year end we'll see where the more stable numbers go, but they're both having massive impact on that team. Covington is as well, and right now he measures out as their most important players, and from the few games I've seen I don't think that's irrational to think.

Simmons is definitely no offensive mastermind (yet!) but tall PG's give you an extra rebounder/rim protector and make it much harder to exploit a defense via the PNR. Simmons is clearly an impact player already.

[Ritzo]

Joel Anthony always have an EMPTY stats.

[LloydFree]

Ricky Rubio

Kevin Love

[phanman]

Given he's with Lowry if he were as good as this box score stats say, yeah they'd be a better team.

They have the 5th best record in the entire NBA with the 3rd best point differential @7.5. They rank 3rd in ORTG @113.5 and 9th in DRTG @105.9 with a SRS of 7.63(3rd). They also have the best home record currently @ 9-1.

Not sure how much better they can be.

So yes if DeRozan was as good as his stats indicate, playing with Lowry who is a top tier player, they should be knocking on 60 wins and would be a very real threat to beat the cavs. It isn't like they had an awful bench or support cast around those two.

I swear raptors fans around here are the most sensitive fan base I've seen...making the laker's fans look thick skinned.

Let's see, we won 56 games in 2016 and took the eventual champs to 6 games in the ECF. I'd say that's knocking on 60w and a threat to the Cavs.

Last season Lowry missed 22 games, and we traded for Ibaka at the deadline, resulting in a drop to 51 games. Patterson who has been an advanced stats star was in and out with injuries around the new year beginning the slide leading to Lowrys injury. If you actually watched the Raptors you'd know that the bench failed them the last playoff run with our supposed 3pt floor spacers shooting:
Tucked 32.1%
Carroll 31.8%
Ibaka 31.6%
Patterson 30.8%

Not to mention Lowry shut himself down after 2
games against the Cavs.

It's really not wise to bait an entire fan base with comments like we're sensitive when we are just stating facts. You say we should be a better team but we have the regular season win totals to back it up and the only team that has taken us out the last two years is the eventual finalists in the Cavs.

Newsflash: DeMar's 27/5/4 season resulted in him being name an all-star and to the All-NBA third team. If the media and coaching staff can recognize his impact, I struggle to see why NBA fans can't see the same.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

Greg Monroe

[dhsilv2]

They have the 5th best record in the entire NBA with the 3rd best point differential @7.5. They rank 3rd in ORTG @113.5 and 9th in DRTG @105.9 with a SRS of 7.63(3rd). They also have the best home record currently @ 9-1.

Not sure how much better they can be.

So yes if DeRozan was as good as his stats indicate, playing with Lowry who is a top tier player, they should be knocking on 60 wins and would be a very real threat to beat the cavs. It isn't like they had an awful bench or support cast around those two.

I swear raptors fans around here are the most sensitive fan base I've seen...making the laker's fans look thick skinned.

Let's see, we won 56 games in 2016 and took the eventual champs to 6 games in the ECF. I'd say that's knocking on 60w and a threat to the Cavs.

Last season Lowry missed 22 games, and we traded for Ibaka at the deadline, resulting in a drop to 51 games. Patterson who has been an advanced stats star was in and out with injuries around the new year beginning the slide leading to Lowrys injury. If you actually watched the Raptors you'd know that the bench failed them the last playoff run with our supposed 3pt floor spacers shooting:
Tucked 32.1%
Carroll 31.8%
Ibaka 31.6%
Patterson 30.8%

Not to mention Lowry shut himself down after 2
games against the Cavs.

It's really not wise to bait an entire fan base with comments like we're sensitive when we are just stating facts. You say we should be a better team but we have the regular season win totals to back it up and the only team that has taken us out the last two years is the eventual finalists in the Cavs.

Newsflash: DeMar's 27/5/4 season resulted in him being name an all-star and to the All-NBA third team. If the media and coaching staff can recognize his impact, I struggle to see why NBA fans can't see the same.

The media picked westbrook for MVP....they do stupid things.

There's just no case for last year not being empty stats. There's a reason any version of RAPM doesn't see his scoring in line with impact. He doesn't have the impact his stats say he should. Thus empty....

[guille_4]

37 year old Pau still has:

- 20.6 PER
- .197 WS/48
- 4.3 BPM (Including a 3.1 DBPM)

As a Spaniard I'm a huge fan of Pau and I wouldn't say his stats are empty but I think they overrate his current production/impact.

[chrisnu]

Michael Adams, Orlando Woolridge and the '90-'91 Nuggets own this category

[HoopsterJones]

Antoine Walker.

[dhsilv2]

37 year old Pau still has:

- 20.6 PER
- .197 WS/48
- 4.3 BPM (Including a 3.1 DBPM)

As a Spaniard I'm a huge fan of Pau and I wouldn't say his stats are empty but I think they overrate his current production/impact.

I mean how else do you explain the spurs record?

[Joseph17]

Probably Melo

[Soulcatcher33]

Carmelo I'd say would be the King.

[Vampirate]

When is this title unwarranted to a player and when is it justified.

Any examples of either?

[Ainosterhaspie]

One example is the scorer who gets a lot of points, but does so shooting under 45% overall and under 34% from three. These guys are wasting team possessions by converting at so low a rate, but if they are averaging 28+ per game, they are generally viewed as great scorers. It's an empty stat though.

Westbrook's rebounds also fall into this category. He gets a high number because guys on his team are working harder to get a rebound for Westbrook than to get one for the team. There are arguments that this helps the offense, but that effect is not particularly strong. The team isn't getting a significantly higher percentage of rebounds due to his presence so the boards he is grabbing personally are empty.

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[Yuri Vaultin]

I've typically thought Will Barton has fallen in to this category as I have perceived him as a blackhole on offense. Not sure what to think now that he has manned the point 2 games in a row and got 9 and 10 assists with only one turnover.

[clyde21]

I've typically thought Will Barton has fallen in to this category as I have perceived him as a blackhole on offense. Not sure what to think now that he has manned the point 2 games in a row and got 9 and 10 assists with only one turnover.

Sometimes you just gotta give players a chance.