Pippen on First Take about Jordan vs Lebron

[OdomFan]

This is not a Jordan/LeBron comparison for Scottie. It is a Jordan/Pippen comparison. It is a way for him to inject himself into the conversation.

The true measure of competing with Jordan goes beyond rings. You want to be in the conversation, retire in your prime. Twice.

Jordan had three retirements. LeBron will have one. Game over.

1. There's nothing wrong with a player choosing to go out on top with two 3 peats.
2. Lebron never had to deal with a dumbass like Jerry Krause who tried to take all the credit for the team's success. He's the reason the team broke up after 98.

[ThePersianFreak]

The fact is, Lebron is still writing his story. If he retired today it's arguable, but if he goes another 3-5 years of playing at this level with his new 3 point shot, not sure how you could argue against him.

I can argue against him pretty easily. The man is a quitter who took the easy way out twice and it may happen again if they don't win it this time around too. Does this really sound like Greatness in the leader category to you? It damn sure doesn't to me. There's a very good chance that he may never win another championship again because other teams are constantly improving every year and at some point people are going to have to stop trying to shove those losses underneath the rug.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

[OdomFan]

The fact is, Lebron is still writing his story. If he retired today it's arguable, but if he goes another 3-5 years of playing at this level with his new 3 point shot, not sure how you could argue against him.

I can argue against him pretty easily. The man is a quitter who took the easy way out twice and it may happen again if they don't win it this time around too. Does this really sound like Greatness in the leader category to you? It damn sure doesn't to me. There's a very good chance that he may never win another championship again because other teams are constantly improving every year and at some point people are going to have to stop trying to shove those losses underneath the rug.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

I sleep just fine thanks. As far as the topic goes he hasn't done enough and it's too late because those of us with common sense don't ignore losses. That is not the definition of Greatness let alone the greatest of the great.

[Lauri_Legend]

Underrated that Jordan and Kobe only won with a HOF coach in Phil Jackson but Lebron had Mike Brown, David Blatt, and now Ty Lue. Only real coach Lebron had was Spo but Spo didn't win a ring as a head coach either on his own.

Phil and MJ earned their hall of fame status together from start to finish. Stop acting like He was some hall of fame worthy block buster signing when he took over head coaching there. That was the case when the Lakers grabbed him but not even close when the Bulls did.

Won 6 with the Bulls and 5 with the Lakers but yeah...not even close. LOL

[OdomFan]

Underrated that Jordan and Kobe only won with a HOF coach in Phil Jackson but Lebron had Mike Brown, David Blatt, and now Ty Lue. Only real coach Lebron had was Spo but Spo didn't win a ring as a head coach either on his own.

Phil and MJ earned their hall of fame status together from start to finish. Stop acting like He was some hall of fame worthy block buster signing when he took over head coaching there. That was the case when the Lakers grabbed him but not even close when the Bulls did.

Won 6 with the Bulls and 5 with the Lakers but yeah...not even close. LOL

That doesn't counter anything I said... The point I made is that he and Jordan created their Hall of Fame names together in Chicago. If Phil never coaches again after 1998 he still gets into the Hall of Fame. The 5 more in Los Angeles was just Bonus.

[shaolinmilk]

If you roll back 4 years and did this comparison, 95% will say Jordan easily. Now fast forward to 2017, I'm starting to see a shift and it's about 50/50 now. If we go forward another 4 years with Lebron playing at this level and if he gets a couple more rings, I'm pretty certain it will continue to follow this trend. It's inevitable!

[Long2s]

He's right. When you consider the talent and coaching MJ had around him, as well as the significantly weaker opposition in the Finals, I think it's clear the say LeBron has definitely surpassed MJ in stats as well as overall standing.

Hahaha.

Lebron is barely top 10.

[Porzingod]

If you roll back 4 years and did this comparison, 95% will say Jordan easily. Now fast forward to 2017, I'm starting to see a shift and it's about 50/50 now. If we go forward another 4 years with Lebron playing at this level and if he gets a couple more rings, I'm pretty certain it will continue to follow this trend. It's inevitable!

Yup. I remember about 4 years ago most of the people were still saying that Kobe is light years ahead of LeBron. Now it's not even a conversation.

[BeatDaCavs420]

This debate just makes me ill every time I see it

Even more so when people say Lebron is better

Lebron is better

No he's not but K

[Mylie10]

I'm not surprised at all that Pippen loves Lebron. Their games were so similar, so I'm sure he takes pride in watching Lebron dominate all the categories. I'm surprised though how he said Lebron is statistically better but then chooses Jordan over Lebron in the GOAT debate to keep his relationship with Jordan and keep his reputation up with Chicago fans.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

I believe the actual ice water in Jordan's veins is why Pippen ultimately chooses him. Not because he needs to keep up his reputation with Chicago fans.

[Mylie10]

Put it this way.....If I had to win one game with both guys in their primes, I take Jordan hands down

[Long2s]

Lebron is not even better than Duncan. Got spanked in the finals by him.

Lebron is a borderline top 10 player who stacked the deck in a historically weak conference.

No one but asperger nerds looks at Lebron and thinks "hey that's the best ever", they look at Lebron and say "hey he is a physical phenom like Karl Malone". Lebron is Karl Malone.

[Long2s]

Underrated that Jordan and Kobe only won with a HOF coach in Phil Jackson but Lebron had Mike Brown, David Blatt, and now Ty Lue. Only real coach Lebron had was Spo but Spo didn't win a ring as a head coach either on his own.

Phil Jackson was an assistant coach.

Lebron ran Blatt out of town because he couldn't stand an equal opportunity ball movement offense.

First game under Blatt, Lebron 18 points, Cavaliers win.

Couldn't have that exposed.

[Long2s]

Because he couldn't make it to them 7 times?

Yeah I mean the next time LeBron needs to go through a team as good as the Bad Boy Pistons, or Bird's Celtics will be the first time.

Has he even faced a team as good as Shaq's Magic or Zo's heat in the Eastern Conference since the Celtics aged out?

This ignores why the number of finals lebron's made is worthy of note which is much more the demand on the body to play that volume of playoff games.

It further however illustrates why discussing jordan's finals record is an exercise in stupidity.

3 rings doesn't get it done if you want to talk GOAT.

It's just far less production than the other greats.

Even Shaq has 4.

Duncan has 5.

Lebron isn't near those guys yet.

[Lauri_Legend]

I'm not surprised at all that Pippen loves Lebron. Their games were so similar, so I'm sure he takes pride in watching Lebron dominate all the categories. I'm surprised though how he said Lebron is statistically better but then chooses Jordan over Lebron in the GOAT debate to keep his relationship with Jordan and keep his reputation up with Chicago fans.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

I believe the actual ice water in Jordan's veins is why Pippen ultimately chooses him. Not because he needs to keep up his reputation with Chicago fans.

Pippen attends 90% of Bulls games every year. Pretty sure he'd get wrecked in Chicago if he didn't choose Jordan

[dhsilv2]

Yeah I mean the next time LeBron needs to go through a team as good as the Bad Boy Pistons, or Bird's Celtics will be the first time.

Has he even faced a team as good as Shaq's Magic or Zo's heat in the Eastern Conference since the Celtics aged out?

This ignores why the number of finals lebron's made is worthy of note which is much more the demand on the body to play that volume of playoff games.

It further however illustrates why discussing jordan's finals record is an exercise in stupidity.

3 rings doesn't get it done if you want to talk GOAT.

It's just far less production than the other greats.

Even Shaq has 4.

Duncan has 5.

Lebron isn't near those guys yet.

How many's Wilt got? Cause he sure gets talked about.

[Benedict_Boozer]

Underrated that Jordan and Kobe only won with a HOF coach in Phil Jackson but Lebron had Mike Brown, David Blatt, and now Ty Lue. Only real coach Lebron had was Spo but Spo didn't win a ring as a head coach either on his own.

Phil Jackson was an assistant coach.

Lebron ran Blatt out of town because he couldn't stand an equal opportunity ball movement offense.

First game under Blatt, Lebron 18 points, Cavaliers win.

Couldn't have that exposed.

First game the Cavs lost - pretty sure they played the Knicks and lost that game, but better to make stuff up I guess?

https://nypost.com/2014/10/31/lebron-explains-why-1st-game-back-in-cleveland-was-a-dud/

[taj2133]

Lebron for me has a Wilt Chamberlain legacy. Just like Wilt he has great stats that stand out but hasn't won enough to be the GOAT. He has to win a few more rings to get there. Going to the finals every year and losing does not make you the GOAT. It's an impressive achievement but you also have to factor in the difficulty of conference in which the East hasn't had a legit team that can challenge Lebron since the 2010 Celtics.

I don't hold the final losses against Lebron but at the same time I don't buy into the crap where people say it's not fair he has had to face great teams like the Warriors,Spurs in the finals and MJ never had to deal with it. It works both ways MJ had to deal with a stacked Eastern conference for the first several years of his career that had GOAT teams in the Pistons,Sixers,Celtics. The difference is instead of going to the finals and losing to the GOAT teams he lost to them in earlier rounds of the playoffs. They are so many greats who would have been considered the GOAT if they didn't have to face certain teams. Duncan would have had 8 rings instead of 5 if he didn't have to deal with the Lakers and you could say the same with Shaq and Kobe if didn't have to deal with the Duncan Spurs. Larry and Magic would have had more rings if they didn't have to face each other. All the guys I mention above their legacies are completely different if they never had to face their rivals. Stop making excuses for Lebron not winning enough. He still has plenty opportunities to win a few more considering if the Cavs don't win it this year I see him forming another super team somewhere else.

[dabonett]

What is the goal? Winning or it’s like a show to impress?
If you want to win, Lebron is in the same tier of Curry not in MJ or even Kobe tier. It’s not a great winner, not worth a discussion.
If you want to view from an hedonistic point of view, sure it’s a joy to watch.

[hege53190]

Lebron for me has a Wilt Chamberlain legacy. Just like Wilt he has great stats that stand out but hasn't won enough to be the GOAT. He has to win a few more rings to get there. Going to the finals every year and losing does not make you the GOAT. It's an impressive achievement but you also have to factor in the difficulty of conference in which the East hasn't had a legit team that can challenge Lebron since the 2010 Celtics.

I don't hold the final losses against Lebron but at the same time I don't buy into the crap where people say it's not fair he has had to face great teams like the Warriors,Spurs in the finals and MJ never had to deal with it. It works both ways MJ had to deal with a stacked Eastern conference for the first several years of his career that had GOAT teams in the Pistons,Sixers,Celtics. The difference is instead of going to the finals and losing to the GOAT teams he lost to them in earlier rounds of the playoffs. They are so many greats who would have been considered the GOAT if they didn't have to face certain teams. Duncan would have had 8 rings instead of 5 if he didn't have to deal with the Lakers and you could say the same with Shaq and Kobe if didn't have to deal with the Duncan Spurs. Larry and Magic would have had more rings if they didn't have to face each other. All the guys I mention above their legacies are completely different if they never had to face their rivals. Stop making excuses for Lebron not winning enough. He still has plenty opportunities to win a few more considering if the Cavs don't win it this year I see him forming another super team somewhere else.

I would agree.

Jordan kept Barkley, Ewing, Malone/Stockton from getting rings. These are top 15-20 all time players.

He shut down dynasties in the bad boy Pistons and show time Lakers. The fact LeBron hasn't faced a real Challenger in the East over the last 5 years should absolutely be held against him. Who cares about 7 finals when the other top 4 teams in the league are in the other Conference?